Errntknght said:
Doc had no experience as an NBA coach when he was installed.
Rick was a successful college coach with no NBA coaching experience.
Pat Riley also built the Heat into a solid team before he took on the additional role of GM. From the look of the current team he's assembled maybe he missed his calling and should have been GM.
Nelson raised Dallas from the dead.
George Karl messed up everything he touched a couple of years ago. Until then he was a solid coach. He probably went off the deep end because his GM wouldn't get players that took D seriously.
How about Phil Jackson or Rudy T - who reputedly have or had a big say. One coach who's team I followed for a couple of decades undisputedly had a strong input - Red Auerbach. He was quite successful, though you're too young to remember that. Rick Adelman, Jerry Sloan, Paul Silas and perhaps Flip Saunders are others that come to mind as good possibilities though I don't know how much input they have.
By the way, you neglected to give the list of successful NBA coaches who simply coached whatever players their GMs handed them. Obviously it must be an enormous list, though I'm a a loss when it comes to naming them. Help me out here.
Doc gained more personel decisions the year after he won COY. He may have been a new coach, but he was definitely distinguished at that point.
Pitino is much better suited for the college game, but that doesn't diminish his role on the Celts. If anything, as a college coach, he should have had some sort of idea about player recruitment and drafting.
Pat Riley offered absurd contracts to Eddie Jones and Brian Grant. Those moves alone set the Heat back years. Loosing Mourning was a devestating blow, but had he not overpaid 2 players by so much, he would have been much better off. He is actually one of the best examples of why a person shouldn't be a coach/GM IMO. As a coach he saw his current roster, and thought he could win it all in the short run with those two guys, so he overpaid, neglecting the long term effect on the franchise.
Nelson didn't raise Dallas, Mark Cuban did. You or I could create a winning team with an unlimited bank roll and a decent coach. The fact that dallas is royally screwed cap wise for the next decade is going to hurt bad. Especially when they grossly overpay a wearing down Steve Nash this summer.
George Karl made the one call that he credits the beginning of the end for Mil. He signed Anthony Mason, which supposedly started all the rifts in the locker room. Then he pushes hard to get rid of Glen Robinson (which was a good choice), but follows it up with a GP for Allen deal. Not only is that bad talent wise, GP was in the last year of his contract. Then Cassell for Joe Smith??
Phil Jackson - May be ok, I think his personel decisions are irrelevent because he always has at least one top 5 player on his team. Filling in role players isn't that hard. Also, look at how much the Lakers role players have sucked in the past few years. He doesn't want any young players, instead optng for 15 year vets. His influence in personel is one of the reasons LA could be in big trouble this summer.
Rudy T - I love Rudy T, but lets be real here. He led the rockets no where for 5 straight years. He let Francis and Mobley do whatever they wanted, and had nothing for a front court. Have you seen Cato's contract? Maybe back when he had Hakeem he made better decisions, but like Phil, it isn't to hard when you have a top 5 player. (Which is why I was hesistant to give Pop any credit, although you have to admire their continual salaray structure)
Jerry Sloan - For sure, forgot abouthim for a moment
Paul Silas - As far as I know, this is his first year having a good amount of influence. I mean the NO owners hated him, so why would they let him make decisions?
Flip Saunders - Minny hasn't made a great deal till this summer, when the owners opened up their wallets. If he had a play in Wally's extension, or the Joe Smith deal, then I think we can scratch him immediately from this list.
Rick Adleman - To be honest, I dont know how much say he has. I don't really like most of their moves lately anyways. I think they overpaid market price to keep Bibby. They also overpaid Webber. Pedja drafting and resigning was genius, and it appears the Brad Miller trade is going to be too. Bobby Jackson, if they can keep him, is great. I really don't know about this one. Of course, do the owners think he has messed things up? There were a lot of rumors that if the kings were out early, it could be his head.
edit: I forgot to mention this was a list of people who coach with the players they have, per your request.
Jim Obrian - There was never any big changes to the Celts until this season, and no one could coach that group (he did great before they traded battie and williams)
Byron Scott - Man I hate this guy, but he played with what he had, and got 2 eastern division championships to show for it.
Rick Carlisle - I think it is safe to say that it was Joe Dumars, not Carlisle who made the Stackhouse swap. And Carlisle coached it wonderfully. And he hasn't done so bad in Indy, after he lost the teams starting center either.
Nate McMillan - Pre this year, I think he did a decent job amidst a lot of front office blunders.
Jeff Bzdelick - For a guy who is rumored to be fired - he took a horrible team to the playoffs, with no say.
Stan Vangundy - He picked up the pieces Pat Riley left on the court, and got them home court advantange after a horrific start.
Red Aurbach - Just because I am young doesn't mean I don't have a grasp on history. The internet is a wonderful thing, it lets even a youngin' like me look up about the "glory days" of basketball. Anyways, I like to stick it to the current game, since it has evolved a great deal since those years. However, that is a great example for that time, and I doubt anyone will ever be as successful as him.
