East Valley Tribune: Suns searching for big man

[coloradosun]

I'll say this again--Theo Ratliff isn't going anywhere.


It's like a Portland fan saying, "we need a PG. How about if we get the Suns to trade Steve Nash to us? We'll give them Darius Miles and a few of our young players..."

I'll say it again, if Portland is rebuilding why would they keep a 32 year old center (who may not resign with them) instead of trading for a possible lottery pick next year.

Ratliff for lottery pick
Miles for Marion

it is a push.

 

[F-Dog]

I'll say it again, if Portland is rebuilding why would they keep a 32 year old center (who may not resign with them) instead of trading for a possible lottery pick next year.

Ratliff for lottery pick
Miles for Marion

it is a push.

Portland isn't rebuilding. They're in exactly the same boat as Phoenix.

 

[coloradosun]

Portland isn't rebuilding. They're in exactly the same boat as Phoenix.

If Miles does not sign an offer sheet this summer they will have 6 unrestricted free agents next summer. It would be better to move some of them now and I don't see a lot of teams interested in Davis, Stoudamire, Stepania, SAR. Theo has the most trade value right now, why not take Marion in return.

The only trade rumor for SAR is to NJ for Kittles (another expiring contract),Aaron Williams and Jason Collins.

 

[F-Dog]

If Miles does not sign an offer sheet this summer they will have 6 unrestricted free agents next summer. It would be better to move some of them now and I don't see a lot of teams interested in Davis, Stoudamire, Stepania, SAR. Theo has the most trade value right now, why not take Marion in return.

The only trade rumor for SAR is to NJ for Kittles (another expiring contract),Aaron Williams and Jason Collins.

The Blazers timed these contracts to expire together so that they'll have a ton of cap room next summer. They should be able to hold onto Ratliff and still have enough cap room to offer a max contract to somebody like Ray Allen.

The other players that will still be under contract are Derek Anderson, Ruben Patterson, Khryapa, Monya, Travis Outlaw, Qyntel Woods, Zach Randolph, and Sebastien Telfair. The Blazers don't need any more prospects, and they really don't need another SF. What they need is a center.

 

[coloradosun]

The Blazers timed these contracts to expire together so that they'll have a ton of cap room next summer. They should be able to hold onto Ratliff and still have enough cap room to offer a max contract to somebody like Ray Allen.

The other players that will still be under contract are Derek Anderson, Ruben Patterson, Khryapa, Monya, Travis Outlaw, Qyntel Woods, Zach Randolph, and Sebastien Telfair. The Blazers don't need any more prospects, and they really don't need another SF. What they need is a center.

Khryapa and Monya are staying in Europe for another year and make good trade bait.

Zach Randolph is a restricted FA next summer and will probably go after a big contract.

Marion and Voskuhl are not prospects, the lottery pick could be an impact player.

Sure they can TRY to hold on to Ratliff next summer but does he want to stay there is the question, they won't have any Bird rights with him and he is free to go where ever he wants.

Just read a rumor on a Cleveland site that had SAR going to Cleveland for Ilgaukas.

 

[Bada0Bing]

Why won't they have bird rights with Ratliff?

 

[Joe Mama]

Why won't they have bird rights with Ratliff?

they will have bird rights, but that really doesn't stop any team far enough under the salary cap from offering him a big contract.

F-dog is right. Ratliff changed the season for Portland last year. And I really don't care what his numbers say. He had opponents afraid to go into the paint, and when they did venture in the middle they were frequently rejected. Portland is not going to trade him, especially for an overpaid small forward.

I like Shawn Marion, but he plays what is probably the least important position in the NBA. Not only that it is the only position he can play effectively even though the Suns look like they're going to run him at power forward at times.

Joe Mama

 

[coloradosun]

Here's a what if;

Portland sends SAR to Cleveland (replace Boozer) and Cleveland sends Ilgaukas to Portland (set up an offense for Martynas).

This deal makes sense for both teams.

 

[cly2tw]

coloradosun is right.

Randolph is eligible for an extension NOW and I expect Blazers give him a max contract. So, if they sign Miles this season and plan to keep Ratliff next season, they have no cap room left, with Anderson and other contracts. And who is on next year's FA market anyway. So, basicly, Marion's bad contract is not much of a concern. And he produces much better numbers than Miles. Outlaw and Woods are both of similar potential anyway, so they really didn't give up much by trading Miles for Marion. The remaining issue is whether they want to give a 32 year old, injury-prone center another contract for say 40mil for 4 year, or a lottery pick to get a much younger prospect like Marty(?). It's not sure that they wouldn't prefer the latter.

 

[coloradosun]

Like I said I just had two suspicians.

Why did the Suns trade out of the lottery this year and potentially right back into the next, the year that Martynas A. will be available.

Why did the Suns sign Q when everyone was expecting them to ink a big man. I think that there is deal for a center already done.

 

[coloradosun]

Why won't they have bird rights with Ratliff?

I was wrong, Bird rights will able, I misinterpreted the definition. I read it as a player had to be with his team 3 consecutive years. Overlooked the fact that he can retain these rights if he has been traded.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I love this obsession with MA. Pavel had the same talk about him last year after he pulled out......


If he is going to be as good as people were claiming, someone would have given him a top 5 guarantee. Same deal with Pavel last year. People saw the potential, but weren't willing to bet their top pick to nab an 18 year old player they have never seen play a real game.

He better be a stud next year if he wants to go top 3

 

[coloradosun]

I love this obsession with MA. Pavel had the same talk about him last year after he pulled out......

It is not an obsession, it is a connection to Sabonis. Portland would the most likely team that has an obsession with him.

I not sure if your just reading the last post not the entire Portland/Phoenix trade theory.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It is not an obsession, it is a connection to Sabonis. Portland would the most likely team that has an obsession with him.

I not sure if your just reading the last post not the entire Portland/Phoenix trade theory.

I read the trade theory. I think it is unrealistic. No way Portland moves the most important part of their team (yes he is more important than Randolph right now) for Marion and the slim possibility of getting MA.

Even if they didn't want to keep Ratliff next year, they would benefit a lot from his 14 million expiring deal. It just makes very little sense for the Blazers.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The Blazers have just over 19 million in committed salary next year.

Even if they offer Randolph a deal starting around 11 million (close to what Kmart got, and most likely an overpayment), they will have 31 million in committed salary.

If the cap moves 1 million up to 45 next season, they will have another 14 million to play with in FA. Miles could wind up taking some of that space if he ever inks a deal.


It makes zero sense to move the best asset they have for Marion. Like I said earlier, a Dale Davis + S&T Miles for Marion and fillers if 100x more realistic.

 

[elindholm]

Like I said earlier, a Dale Davis + S&T Miles for Marion and fillers if 100x more realistic.

I agree, but I hope that doesn't happen. Davis really doesn't bring much to the table anymore. (In his four years with Portland, his averages have been roughly seven points, seven rebounds, and one block.) As far as Miles goes, yes, he and Richardson were friends with the Clippers, but they sure didn't elevate each other's games. Not all players do their best when on the same team with friends, and Miles and Richardson seem to be two prime examples of that.

 

[cly2tw]

Davis + Miles (~6mil) + fillers for Marion, Eisley, Bull's pick. Sign Ostertage to min with an understanding to extend a bigger contract next year or later. We'd have about 7 mil cap room next year even if we extend JJ for 5mil starting.

Davis/Ostertag/Lampe
Amare/Voskul/Vroman
JJ/Miles/Zarko
Q/CJ
Nash/Barbosa

It's a promising roster to me.

 

[Joe Mama]

Davis + Miles (~6mil) + fillers for Marion, Eisley, Bull's pick. Sign Ostertage to min with an understanding to extend a bigger contract next year or later. We'd have about 7 mil cap room next year even if we extend JJ for 5mil starting.

Davis/Ostertag/Lampe
Amare/Voskul/Vroman
JJ/Miles/Zarko
Q/CJ
Nash/Barbosa

It's a promising roster to me.

that's an awful trade for the Portland Trail Blazers.

Joe Mama

 

[Dave64]

I disagree. Dale Davis is old, Marion is much better than Miles. The Bulls pick could be ag reat player in time. I would not do that deal if I was the Suns, not the Blazers!

 

[Joe Mama]

I disagree. Dale Davis is old, Marion is much better than Miles. The Bulls pick could be ag reat player in time. I would not do that deal if I was the Suns, not the Blazers!

you seem to be conveniently forgetting the biggest reason that trade sucks for the Blazers. That is Howard Eiseley. It would take the Bulls draft pick just to get rid of Howard Eiseley alone.

Joe

 

[Dave64]

I did not forget about Howard. That contract would suck for the Blazers, but the high pick and Marion are worth it. By the time Howard's slary comes off the books, that high pick could be a stud. I do that deal in a heartbeat if I am the Blazer, especially if I can find a taker for Rahim.

 

[cly2tw]

you seem to be conveniently forgetting the biggest reason that trade sucks for the Blazers. That is Howard Eiseley. It would take the Bulls draft pick just to get rid of Howard Eiseley alone.

Joe

Joe, Eisley's contract is only a problem if the team need the cap room to sign FA. As a player he is maybe overpaid by 4 mil a year. Davis in his current condition is overpaid too. So, it's likely like paying 5 mil for Bull's pick. If the Blazers want to go the FA route next season, they wouldn't want Eisley's contract. If they go through the trading route to rebuild, then Eisley's is no problem. The value of an object changes from case to case.

 

[Joe Mama]

Joe, Eisley's contract is only a problem if the team need the cap room to sign FA. As a player he is maybe overpaid by 4 mil a year. Davis in his current condition is overpaid too. So, it's likely like paying 5 mil for Bull's pick. If the Blazers want to go the FA route next season, they wouldn't want Eisley's contract. If they go through the trading route to rebuild, then Eisley's is no problem. The value of an object changes from case to case.

Howard Eiseley would get the veteran minimum at most right now. Davis is also overpaid, but he plays a position that is harder to fill. Eisley's contract is also one year longer. And let's not forget that Shawn Marion is also overpaid by at least a couple million dollars per season.

Joe Mama

 

[Dave64]

Joe Mama, I still think it is a steal for the Blazers. Miles may be okay if we get Q because those two are friends and may help to motivate each other. However, I would rather have Marion, Howard, and the Bulls pick than Dale Daivs, who is on his last knees, and Miles, who is undiscplined. Easy choice for me, but we can agree to disagree. Dave

 

[George O'Brien]

Miles is an RFA, so I have no clue what he would cost. In any case, after watching hims stink the place up in Cleveland I'm not convinced he has suddenly become worth a 20-10 guy.

At various times I've suggested Eisley and the Chicago pick for Dale Davis. (It is not feasible if the Suns get Q, but was an alternative if they don't). It saves the Suns $6.9 million in cap space for next season and gives the Suns a solid if declining defense oriented center for a year. However, most people seemed to think giving up the Chicago pick was too much.

But if that deal doesn't work and Miles is not as valuable as Marion, then how could combining them be an improvement?