Eli Manning is now #1 on Mel Kiper's top 25 draft board.

[CaptTurbo]

OK so if we dont draft a QB to start next year then who should start. I like Blake but he wont win us a superbowl and from what I have seen of Mcnown neither will he. Sorry he just never looked good in there.

So who should start?

 

[spanky]

Originally posted by swd1974
OK so if we dont draft a QB to start next year then who should start. I like Blake but he wont win us a superbowl and from what I have seen of Mcnown neither will he. Sorry he just never looked good in there.

So who should start?

Blake was not signed to win us a Super Bowl. He was brought in to be a credible next step in the transition process from a perrenial cellar-dweller to a middle of the pack team. None of us has seen anything of McCown......and there in lies the problem. Until we know what we've got in him we can't make an informed decision as to what we should be doing regarding our future QB. Jake Delhomme sat in the catbird seat for six years in New Orleans and while he hasn't got the visibility of other QB's in the league this year, he has quietly led the Carolina Panthers to a 7-1 record so far.

Who should start next year? In a perfect world, McCown if he's ready.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by pinnacle
cheer for the chargers to beat the broncos...

I do not think Al davis will go with manning..he likes veteran qbs generally...todd marinovich helped form his opinion..

The rumor is they like Ben R.

Marinovich was classic Davis he was not supposed to go that high the knocks on him were in place before the draft Al simply refused to believe it and took him.

The Raiders are going to clean house and they also are in the Drew Henson sweepstakes according to something AZCB34 sent me. I haven't seen that but I've been on Vacation since Friday.

Manning is a solid prospect I just don't think he's a can't miss and I would prefer to get a CB, but apparently Graves wants a QB. Puzzling given we passed on Byron this year.

 

[Stout]

Put it to you like this, Spanky. You want to see if McCown is the QB of our future, and are willing to stand pat at that position until you see, right? In that case, we'll either be set at the position for years to come, if he pans out, or our team will most certainly be mired in ineptitude once again for roughly the next 3-5 years.

I know you're probably going to argue the last point, but you'll be wrong. If you decide a young QB is your man, you have to give him a chance. That's at least 1 season in some cases, but if you've decided he's your franchise QB, then you have to give him at least 2. Then look at our track record. As long as he shows any kind of flash, hell get at least another season or two to 'develop'. If he sucks, we won't get rid of him until well after we should have.

So. You may be willing to just roll the dice over the next few years like that, but I am not. You can never have too many good QBs. Draft Manning or the Miami fellow, and let the best QB win out. If That's the 1st rounder, then fine, you spent a 3rd rounder on possibly a real qaulity backup QB (which is VERY important), or you can even trade him, if he looks to be a star, for up to a 1st rounder.

 

[spanky]

Originally posted by Stout
Put it to you like this, Spanky. You want to see if McCown is the QB of our future, and are willing to stand pat at that position until you see, right? In that case, we'll either be set at the position for years to come, if he pans out, or our team will most certainly be mired in ineptitude once again for roughly the next 3-5 years.

I know you're probably going to argue the last point, but you'll be wrong. If you decide a young QB is your man, you have to give him a chance. That's at least 1 season in some cases, but if you've decided he's your franchise QB, then you have to give him at least 2. Then look at our track record. As long as he shows any kind of flash, hell get at least another season or two to 'develop'. If he sucks, we won't get rid of him until well after we should have.

So. You may be willing to just roll the dice over the next few years like that, but I am not. You can never have too many good QBs. Draft Manning or the Miami fellow, and let the best QB win out. If That's the 1st rounder, then fine, you spent a 3rd rounder on possibly a real qaulity backup QB (which is VERY important), or you can even trade him, if he looks to be a star, for up to a 1st rounder.

I hear ya Stout......but we don't have ANY idea as to what McCown has so we are dealing in the dark. That's really my only point. Is Manning the way to go.........perhaps. I'll admit, I'm in a quandry with this QB situation. I need more time to think it all through.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by spanky
I hear ya Stout......but we don't have ANY idea as to what McCown has so we are dealing in the dark. That's really my only point. Is Manning the way to go.........perhaps. I'll admit, I'm in a quandry with this QB situation. I need more time to think it all through.

Yeah, it's definitely a quandry! Man, it's driving me nuts! After all, it's the one position you absolutely HAVE to have a serviceable starter, at least, to be a good team.

I'm just afraid that we'll never play McCown to see what we have, but that we'll STILL count on him to be the QB of the future (from team management's standpoint, certainly NOT from mine!). This, I suspect, would be a recipe for disaster.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I'd love to see a list of Mel's top five for the last five years and see how many are playing at a "top 5" level.

I'm not complaining, I'm just curious...

 

[Assface]

Skkorp,

Have you seen much of McCown in practice? How's he looking? Since we don't get to see him play at all I was wondering if you could let us know what your current take on him is.

Thanks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Oran
NO WAY!!! If we sign a rookie QB it will take another 4-5 years to get this team anywhere. I hate rookie starting QBs, and as soon as we lose a few game you know they'd start the rookie. Sign a CB, or someone that can have an immediate impact. This team is close to being respectable, we need to stike the iron while it's hot! Look at some of the top teams right now- Carolina doesn't have a great QB, Dallas really doesn't have a great QB, Seattle's QB took years to learn the ropes of the NFL, as did Trent Green, Garcia, Favre, Johnson, and dare I say Plummer. Patrick Ramsey is basically a rookie starter, so is Harrington, Leftwich, even Payton's first few seasons weren't too good. By the time a rookie QB becomes decent, everything we have now will be gone, and we aren't good enough to spend a first round pick on a "work in progress."

oran, what part of 3-6 with all our losses being blowouts reflects "close to respectable?" just curious...

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
oran, what part of 3-6 with all our losses being blowouts reflects "close to respectable?" just curious...

Yes our losses on the road have been abysmal but our three home victories were against quality opponents. I think we've shown enough occassional spark to be considered close to respectable. But we need to show some consistency.

 

[Snakester]

I have watched Eli Manning three times this year and from what I see he is very acurate in short to medium range throws and is a very good running QB. He is no Vick running but I would put him in the top ten QBs in the NFL for running. I also think he is good enough to start his first year. I don't think he needs much time at all before he will be very good.

 

[AZCB34]

On McCown...

What we know is that Blake was brought in to start so McCown was never competeing for a starting job. The big unknown though is CAN McCown actually be a starter? Only one way to find out.

He showed improvement from last year to this year...I think we all agree on that point. This is where there is a quandry in the front office to coaching relationship. At 3-6, what is really most important at this point? Maybe win 1-2 more games or should they really be taking some time to audition McCown to either confirm their backing of him (which they have done publically) or to show the team that McCown is still a long ways away (or simply not starting material)?

Cheesebeef keeps bringing up something about Graves effecting the next 5 years of this organizations direction if/when Mac is replaced. Well, the next 5 years can also be effected by a QB emerging from the bench (McCown) or one being drafted (Manning). That may be just as critical.

If the team doesn't have faith in McCown (or I guess Parsons), then they need to get a long term solution at that position. If they draft a QB, look for it outside of round 1.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
oran, what part of 3-6 with all our losses being blowouts reflects "close to respectable?" just curious...

See Rivercard's reply. The pieces seem to be finally falling in place, and it just seems like by the time a rookie QB gets good(4-5 years), our O-Line will be falling apart, and Q, Kendall, BJ's, etc. contracts will be up. Next year we will have continuity in all aspects of this team, and that alone hould prevent us from coming out of the gates with a 1-3 record.

 

[AntSports Steve]

The Cards a 3-6. Looking at the standings, I don't see a 9-7 team being able to win one of the two wild card spots. Right now, 3 teams not leading their division already have 6 wins. So, 1 more loss and the Cards are basicly out of the playoffs.

Now, coach Mac will want to win as many games as possible to to try and keep his job, while Graves will want to start seeing if McCown can be a starting QB in this league. A real conflict. Actually I think the Graves goal is to get rid of coach Mac and pick his own coach.

So, will the young QB get playing time? How soon? He hasn't played much and the Cards were blown out in several games.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Personally I thought Parsons looked better in the preseason then did McCown!!! I'd like to see them both get a few reps in game situations and see what we got.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Originally posted by Mike Rogers
There are a number of QB possiblilities this year, there is Rivers, Symons, Navarre (spelling) and White.

Are you talking about our 4th round pick?Because if we'd take one of them before then we're total idiots.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Originally posted by Oran
NO WAY!!! If we sign a rookie QB it will take another 4-5 years to get this team anywhere. I hate rookie starting QBs, and as soon as we lose a few game you know they'd start the rookie. Sign a CB, or someone that can have an immediate impact. This team is close to being respectable, we need to stike the iron while it's hot! Look at some of the top teams right now- Carolina doesn't have a great QB, Dallas really doesn't have a great QB, Seattle's QB took years to learn the ropes of the NFL, as did Trent Green, Garcia, Favre, Johnson, and dare I say Plummer. Patrick Ramsey is basically a rookie starter, so is Harrington, Leftwich, even Payton's first few seasons weren't too good. By the time a rookie QB becomes decent, everything we have now will be gone, and we aren't good enough to spend a first round pick on a "work in progress."

If we stay with what we have then it will take another 7-10 years. Just because we'd take Manning doesn't mean he'd start right away next year.We could be competitive with Blake(i can't believe i just said that) if we take care of the defense through free agency and then Manning could be ready in year 2.

 

[X-29Fan]

Originally posted by Stout
Yeah, it's definitely a quandry! Man, it's driving me nuts! After all, it's the one position you absolutely HAVE to have a serviceable starter, at least, to be a good team.

I'm just afraid that we'll never play McCown to see what we have, but that we'll STILL count on him to be the QB of the future (from team management's standpoint, certainly NOT from mine!). This, I suspect, would be a recipe for disaster.

I agree. If they don't give the kid a chance, and wait till next season to have a "battle" for the starting job between he and Blake, it will be another wasted season. Why not let McCown play now, and see if he has the "goods". And, if he does have the goods, he will at least have some experience going into next season.

For all intensive purposes, this season is over. They should let McCown play.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Are you talking about our 4th round pick?Because if we'd take one of them before then we're total idiots.

I haven't seen enough of Rivers to have an opinion but I actually like Navarre. Not a can't miss of course but he strikes me as one of those guys who may come into the NFL and in year 3 suddenly you find you have a good QB. He seems to have the physical talent.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

The thing I really like about Eli Manning is his cool approach to everything. I watched that Auburn game last week and when everyone else on Mississippi's sidelines was going berserk, pacing etc... here was Manning calmly sitting on the sidelines chatting with his coach and planning his next drive. The guy has that "it" that coaches talk about and he seems to have no memory when he throws and INT which is completely different from his brother. I am a huge SEC football fan and I saw a ton of Peyton during his days at Tennessee and I think Eli is a better athlete and has a more natural throwing motion than his brother. Peyton had a hard time throwing a tight spiral when he was in college but Eli's throws are very tight. PFW broke down Eli a few weeks ago and they said his mechanics are superior to more than half of the current starting NFL quarterbacks.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Are you talking about our 4th round pick?Because if we'd take one of them before then we're total idiots.

Thats exactly what I am saying. QB'S seemed to come just as good in the later rounds as they do in the early rounds.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Holian
The thing I really like about Eli Manning is his cool approach to everything. I watched that Auburn game last week and when everyone else on Mississippi's sidelines was going berserk, pacing etc... here was Manning calmly sitting on the sidelines chatting with his coach and planning his next drive. The guy has that "it" that coaches talk about and he seems to have no memory when he throws and INT which is completely different from his brother. I am a huge SEC football fan and I saw a ton of Peyton during his days at Tennessee and I think Eli is a better athlete and has a more natural throwing motion than his brother. Peyton had a hard time throwing a tight spiral when he was in college but Eli's throws are very tight. PFW broke down Eli a few weeks ago and they said his mechanics are superior to more than half of the current starting NFL quarterbacks.

That's weird I must just have seen him in bad games because one of my biggest complaints about Eli was his lack of tight spirals when he throws.

One of my big concerns on Eli is if you look at his page on ESPN.com and go through the game by game logs you notice pretty quickly that his big games are for the most part against teams like Memphis, Louisian Monroe etc., and his lesser games are against teams like Florida, Arkansas, LSU. IN other words he piles up big numbers in the mismatch games and so so numbers in the games against good teams with NFL prospects on their defense. To some extent ALL good college players do this, but it would sure make me feel better to see more games like the one he had against Auburn.

The other concern I have is the universal statement that his stats fell off last year because of poor OL and WR play. If you look he's actually being sacked more this year than last year, so unless he was just throwing a lot of balls away last year to avoid sacks, his lower % and higher picks are harder to explain. Looked to me like the real difference is their defense is better this year so he's not throwing the ball as much and can thus be more selective.

I just have yet to see him play where I'm thinking wow, he does put up numbers and have obvious talent but everytime I see him play, I'm underwhelmed. I think Roethlisberger is more impressive physically(bigger, better arm) and Losman may have a stronger arm too but I've only seen each of them play once and not the whole game.

To a certain extent Manning suffers because he's been around so long you can't help but stop looking at what he does well, and focus on what he doesn't do well, that happens every year to seniors in the draft.

I wouldn't be crushed if we picked him but I would rather get a CB, DL or WR who can make big plays.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
I think Roethlisberger is more impressive physically(bigger, better arm) and Losman may have a stronger arm too but I've only seen each of them play once and not the whole game.

hmm . . . sounds like the Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning argument . . . of which I was one of the guilty parties.

 

[AZCB34]

Again, I personally feel any Manning debate is lost on the Cards because unless something very very bizarre happens, they will not be taking a QB in round 1...in fact they may not even consider it on DAY 1.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

This organization will be doomed if we draft Eli! The three blind witches have warned us!!!!