Eli Manning

[BigRedMO]

Franchise QBS like Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, John Elway, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw etc only come around infrequently. This draft is deep in WRs. I dont get Green's fascination with a WR who some dont even consider is the best WR. I know Green knew this guy since he was a kid. I hope that is not the main reason he wants him. I think Green hopes to recreate his glory days of picking a risky WR high in the draft.

Franchise QBs put fans in the seats and are a position you can build around. Remember David Boston. He's gone. How about Bryant? Peyton Manning is still in Indy and winning. QB is a unique leadership position unlike any other. I just hope Green is pulling off a bluff and miracle of miracles if Manning is available that he picks him.

Last good QB the Cardinals had was Lomax. That was along time ago and there have been many good WRs playing in AZ since. They have not made the Cards winners. The Cards had some good years when the good QBs Hart and Lomax were there. If the Cardinals do not find a way to get Manning they will regret it for 15 years.

 

[lrk27]

Franchise QBS like Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, John Elway, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw etc only come around infrequently. This draft is deep in WRs. I dont get Green's fascination with a WR who some dont even consider is the best WR. I know Green knew this guy since he was a kid. I hope that is not the main reason he wants him. I think Green hopes to recreate his glory days of picking a risky WR high in the draft.

Franchise QBs put fans in the seats and are a position you can build around. Remember David Boston. He's gone. How about Bryant? Peyton Manning is still in Indy and winning. QB is a unique leadership position unlike any other. I just hope Green is pulling off a bluff and miracle of miracles if Manning is available that he picks him.

Last good QB the Cardinals had was Lomax. That was along time ago and there have been many good WRs playing in AZ since. They have not made the Cards winners. The Cards had some good years when the good QBs Hart and Lomax were there. If the Cardinals do not find a way to get Manning they will regret it for 15 years.

Bottom line, Larry Fitzgerald is far and away the best player available. Eli Manning is not even the best QB available. There is absolutely ZERO chance that the Cards take Eli Manning. Don't waste your breathe on it. ZERO chance. Whoever called Fitzgerald risky is very mis-informed. Eli may wind up being a good QB, but don't you dare list him along side Peyton , Brett Farve, John Elway, Dan Marino, and Terry Bradshaw. Dennis Green will not draft a QB in round 1. He will take Fitzgerald if he is available. Like it or not.

 

[BigRedMO]

The Rams offense were world beaters in 99. Warner's release was so quick the rush could not get to him. Last year and previous year the Rams still had the wide receivers but their offense was not the same because Warner then Bulger did not produce like 99. The draft is deep in WRs. Everything I have read says Manning is hands down best QB. He has the lineage, the head and the character. Mark my word Cards fans will be kicking themselves for beating the Vikings, blowing the opportunity to excite its fans by not being able to choose a fanchise player. Another prediction is Fitzgerald if drafted will not even be a Cardinal in 5 years. Manning will be winning and still be with the team that drafted him.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

BigRedMO, I agree with you....

 

[Shuesters2]

Franchise QBS like Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, John Elway, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw etc only come around infrequently. This draft is deep in WRs. I dont get Green's fascination with a WR who some dont even consider is the best WR. I know Green knew this guy since he was a kid. I hope that is not the main reason he wants him. I think Green hopes to recreate his glory days of picking a risky WR high in the draft.

Franchise QBs put fans in the seats and are a position you can build around. Remember David Boston. He's gone. How about Bryant? Peyton Manning is still in Indy and winning. QB is a unique leadership position unlike any other. I just hope Green is pulling off a bluff and miracle of miracles if Manning is available that he picks him.

Last good QB the Cardinals had was Lomax. That was along time ago and there have been many good WRs playing in AZ since. They have not made the Cards winners. The Cards had some good years when the good QBs Hart and Lomax were there. If the Cardinals do not find a way to get Manning they will regret it for 15 years.

Remember franchise QBs Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Todd Marinovich, Todd Blackledge, David Klingler, Rick Mirer...?

Shuesters

 

[Redsz]

Oh great. Another 'we need a Franchise QB to win games' topic.

We aren't taking a QB. Get over it.

 

[Evil Ash]

The Rams offense were world beaters in 99. Warner's release was so quick the rush could not get to him. Last year and previous year the Rams still had the wide receivers but their offense was not the same because Warner then Bulger did not produce like 99. The draft is deep in WRs.

Couldn't it just be that NFL DCs have adjusted to the Rams offense? Like usual everyone puts way too much emphasis/blame on the one position of QB rather taking other things into account.

Everything I have read says Manning is hands down best QB. He has the lineage, the head and the character.

Good for him but that still doesn't mean squat because we don't know how he'll adjust to the NFL. Great college careers does NOT mean he will be a great NFL player. Notice how many Heisman winners are in the pros?

Don't even bring in the argument of how great his brother his and how therefore Eli will be a great pro. The argument is tired. How come nobody ever mentions Peyton and Eli's other brother whom didn't play a down in the NFL?

Mark my word Cards fans will be kicking themselves for beating the Vikings, blowing the opportunity to excite its fans by not being able to choose a fanchise player.

Nope, I prefer to watch a team that gives a damn about winning rather than roll over so that they can get a player that might not ever develop.

I'll say it over and over again ... the term "franchise player" is a term earned not given. So far none of the players have done anything at the NFL level to earn this title (at the college level, yes ... but at the NFL level, no).

Another prediction is Fitzgerald if drafted will not even be a Cardinal in 5 years. Manning will be winning and still be with the team that drafted him.

What makes you so sure?

 

[40yearfan]

The Rams offense were world beaters in 99. Warner's release was so quick the rush could not get to him. Last year and previous year the Rams still had the wide receivers but their offense was not the same because Warner then Bulger did not produce like 99. The draft is deep in WRs. Everything I have read says Manning is hands down best QB. He has the lineage, the head and the character. Mark my word Cards fans will be kicking themselves for beating the Vikings, blowing the opportunity to excite its fans by not being able to choose a fanchise player. Another prediction is Fitzgerald if drafted will not even be a Cardinal in 5 years. Manning will be winning and still be with the team that drafted him.

Payton Manning will stay with the Colts, but nobody else will. They broke the bank to keep him and will now have to rid themselves of some of their top talent. Let's see how good Payton is in the next couple of years after the Colts loose their good people because of his contract.

Eli Manning will put whatever team he plays for in the same position if he is any good. Franchise QB's in this era of "The Cap" are too expensive and keep their teams from being able to keep their good people. It ain't like it used to be when Bradshaw, etc. were the great QB's. You didn't have to break the bank to keep them.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

From what I have seen in the NFL today, teams can win without a franchise QB, the Cards I feel have a better shot turning it around with a QB that has a good arm, speed and right decisions to have success. With a strong O-line Boldin, Jones and Johnson, plus hopefully the addition of Fitz, McCown will have the right targets and stength to take this team to the playoffs. Give McCown the correct strong supporting cast and watch out!!!

 

[Goldfield]

From what I have seen in the NFL today, teams can win without a franchise QB, the Cards I feel have a better shot turning it around with a QB that has a good arm, speed and right decisions to have success. With a strong O-line Boldin, Jones and Johnson, plus hopefully the addition of Fitz, McCown will have the right targets and stength to take this team to the playoffs. Give McCown the correct strong supporting cast and watch out!!!

All the more reasons Green is so important. He can get QB's to perform above average, therefore not have to break the bank on a franchish QB...

 

[Stout]

And if McCown fails, we're up $h!t creek without a paddle. *ducks and waits for asinine statements about how Green could make even Stout a good QB* Don't get me wrong--Josh has potential to be a good QB--but I'm not will to bet our next 3-5 seasons on him alone. Not yet.

 

[Shane]

Franchise QBS like Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, John Elway, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw etc only come around infrequently. QUOTE]

That certainly isn't true!

 

[Krangodnzr]

And if McCown fails, we're up $h!t creek without a paddle. *ducks and waits for asinine statements about how Green could make even Stout a good QB* Don't get me wrong--Josh has potential to be a good QB--but I'm not will to bet our next 3-5 seasons on him alone. Not yet.

Don't get mad at me Stout, but man, this is the biggest load I ever hear for drafting a QB. You don't have to bet for the "next 3-5 seasons" on McCown. Denny has a proven track record of developing QBs. It's proven.

Look how well Culpepper played in his second year under Green? If McCown doesn't pan out quickly, I doubt Green wouldn't quickly find a replacement. The era of Tobin is over; we will no longer give a QB 5 years to prove they belong.

Green believes in putting the right pieces around a Qb, and helping the QB to play above their natural level. Was George a franchise QB with the Vikings? Cunningham? Brad Johnson? No, but they played like franchise Qb's.

I would rather see Green put the necessary pieces around whoever will be the QB, instead of using picks on another QB prospect.

 

[BigRedMO]

No pick is a sure shot. QB is the position with most ability to upgrade a team. A good WR will touch the ball maybe 8-10 times a game at a max. A QB will attempt 20-40 passes. You get more impact from a QB. Sporting News considers Manning as having the highest floor. Meaning least likely to fail. If WR is safer pick than a QB explain David Boston?

 

[Shane]

And if McCown fails, we're up $h!t creek without a paddle. *ducks and waits for asinine statements about how Green could make even Stout a good QB* Don't get me wrong--Josh has potential to be a good QB--but I'm not will to bet our next 3-5 seasons on him alone. Not yet.

And if you draft Manning of Roth and they fail you are up **** creek without the same paddle. yet you are not only in personell hell but cap hell as well!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Franchise QBS like Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, John Elway, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw etc only come around infrequently.

That certainly isn't true!

I was about to say the same thing. "Franchise" Qbs come out nearly every year, but Franchise Qbs only come out every few years.

The difference, is that Manning, Favre, Elway, Marino, and Bradshaw BECAME Franchise Qbs (and Bradshaw, IMO, was never a Franchise Qb). Roeth./Manning/Rivers could become Franchise Qbs, but that remains to be seen.

 

[Shane]

I was about to say the same thing. "Franchise" Qbs come out nearly every year, but Franchise Qbs only come out every few years.

The difference, is that Manning, Favre, Elway, Marino, and Bradshaw BECAME Franchise Qbs (and Bradshaw, IMO, was never a Franchise Qb). Roeth./Manning/Rivers could become Franchise Qbs, but that remains to be seen.

 

[Stout]

Don't get mad at me Stout, but man, this is the biggest load I ever hear for drafting a QB. You don't have to bet for the "next 3-5 seasons" on McCown. Denny has a proven track record of developing QBs. It's proven.

Look how well Culpepper played in his second year under Green? If McCown doesn't pan out quickly, I doubt Green wouldn't quickly find a replacement. The era of Tobin is over; we will no longer give a QB 5 years to prove they belong.

Green believes in putting the right pieces around a Qb, and helping the QB to play above their natural level. Was George a franchise QB with the Vikings? Cunningham? Brad Johnson? No, but they played like franchise Qb's.

I would rather see Green put the necessary pieces around whoever will be the QB, instead of using picks on another QB prospect.

And, forgive me for predicting exactly what someone would say, but your response is utter bunk, for the most part...there is some truth here. First, your blind faith in Green is touching, yet misplaced. The way you and other deluded individuals talk, just because we have Green, ANY QB we have will pan out. That's simply not true. Has Josh got potential? Absolutely. Is Green good at developing QBs? Yes. Does that mean Josh will become the QB we need him to be? Not at all. We simply don't know at this point. Anyone that says they DO know is either lying or selling something.

Secondly, I'm not saying we'll waste 3-5 years on one QB...but if Josh doesn't light it up this year, chances are he'll get one more year w/this basically as his developmental year...and if he stinks it up again, that's 2 seasons...figure in that a newly drafted QB usually takes at least 2 years to develop, that's 4 wasted years...right in the middle of my 3-5 wasted years theory, should McCown fail. Sure, we MIGHT be able to pick up a decent vet that can be a serviceable interim guy, but I hate gambling the most important position on the field on a 'might' in the future.

As for your last bit...hey, that's just philosophical differences between us. I can't fault you for that. I just don't agree. What I will ALWAYS fault a person for is the logic that it doesn't matter who the QB is, because we have Green. Yeah, give Green Ryan Leaf, and it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference. It may not have to be a franchise QB, but that QB HAS to have some kind of talent (not potential---that and a quarter won't get you a cup of coffee---TALENT) for Green to make something of him.

 

[Stout]

And if you draft Manning of Roth and they fail you are up **** creek without the same paddle. yet you are not only in personell hell but cap hell as well!

Absolutely right. I don't think they'll fail, though, and whoever drafts them (probably not us in either case) won't think they'll fail either. I'd love nothing better than to draft Big Ben, have him light it up in the next few camps and preseasons, and have Josh light it up the next two seasons as well. We'll be in a GREAT situation.

If we don't take the chance that I feel you HAVE to take at some point, and Josh sucks, but Big Ben turns out good, we're all right.

Forgive me for trying to get the best possible talent at the most important position on the football field, bar none, no possible arguments agaisnt...because I want that position solidified. Anyone that thinks they can unequivicably say the position is already solidified is on crack...it MIGHT be, but we cannot know at this point. No one can, unless they're a psychic.

 

[vikesfan]

Again this has already been discussed in several threads.
The reasons not to draft first round QB have been factually proven.
1. Development time.
2. Money issues if doesn't bust or does.
3. Bust potential.
4. Team benefit even if doesn't bust.
5. Whether a franchis QB is needed in this era.
6. ETC.

People have factually shown that the case to not draft a QB in the top 3 is a very very strong rational and factual one.

Maybe someone can just provide some linkage.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

And if McCown fails, we're up $h!t creek without a paddle. *ducks and waits for asinine statements about how Green could make even Stout a good QB* Don't get me wrong--Josh has potential to be a good QB--but I'm not will to bet our next 3-5 seasons on him alone. Not yet.

Actually if McCown fails, then we let him walk in free agency at the end of this season and then go from there. If we draft Manning/Roethlisberger and they don't pan out, we're sh-- out of luck for nearly the next decade.

 

[vikesfan]

Actually if McCown fails, then we let him walk in free agency at the end of this season and then go from there. If we draft Manning/Roethlisberger and they don't pan out, we're sh-- out of luck for nearly the next decade.

1. McNown is released and all he cost the team was a 3rd round pick and some minor money.
Just like Tom Brady might have cost NE.
2. Your 1st round QB doesn't work out (which the odds suggest) and he costs you years of losing, money, and a blown #1 pick.
3. If he does work out it will be likely for another team down the road. After you developed him for them. Or he will cost you so much that you can't have a top notch team around him.

 

[40yearfan]

I was about to say the same thing. "Franchise" Qbs come out nearly every year, but Franchise Qbs only come out every few years.

The difference, is that Manning, Favre, Elway, Marino, and Bradshaw BECAME Franchise Qbs (and Bradshaw, IMO, was never a Franchise Qb). Roeth./Manning/Rivers could become Franchise Qbs, but that remains to be seen.

Krang, did you ever see Bradshaw play. He was every bit as important to that Steeler team as any of the other "franchise" QB's you have listed.

One thing I might add. Josh McCown is a Bradshaw type of player. He reminds me of Bradshaw. He can beat you with his arm, his feet, or his cunning. I hope McCown does for the Cards what Bradshaw did for the Steelers.

 

[40yearfan]

Absolutely right. I don't think they'll fail, though, and whoever drafts them (probably not us in either case) won't think they'll fail either. I'd love nothing better than to draft Big Ben, have him light it up in the next few camps and preseasons, and have Josh light it up the next two seasons as well. We'll be in a GREAT situation.

If we don't take the chance that I feel you HAVE to take at some point, and Josh sucks, but Big Ben turns out good, we're all right.

Forgive me for trying to get the best possible talent at the most important position on the football field, bar none, no possible arguments agaisnt...because I want that position solidified. Anyone that thinks they can unequivicably say the position is already solidified is on crack...it MIGHT be, but we cannot know at this point. No one can, unless they're a psychic.

Stout, the most important guy, the one guy closest to the team, D. Green thinks the position is already solidified and he has stated so on numerous occasions. Do you think he's on crack or just psychic?

 

[Stout]

Stout, the most important guy, the one guy closest to the team, D. Green thinks the position is already solidified and he has stated so on numerous occasions. Do you think he's on crack or just psychic?

I think he's a realist that knows this is the guy he has to start, at least this year, and probably has seen enough potential to hope he's a solid starter. Beyond that, I don't think Green is 'sold' completely on McCown. If one of the QBs are there and we don't take him, it could mean it's not the one we wanted, or it could be a final vote of confidence. Who's to know?

I think you're pretending to be psychic or really are on crack if you think Green's 100 percent completely sold on McCown as a complete QB. Green KNOWS he's probably our best shot at winning THIS year, so he's stated McCown's his man. Beyond that, we cannot know yet.