ESPN Insider on Cards v. Ravens

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Are you really saying that Pace wasn't drafted to start? Does that mean that Graves was really going to go into the season with KVB and Wakefield as our starters? If so - then Graves, well - you know the rest.

Andf to say Pace is getting QB hurries is ridiculkous - hurries should occur within 6 seconds of the ball being sacked - his almost one sack against Favre was fater seven seconds of standing in the pocket and then he could even wrap Favre up once he got him. I have nothing against Calvin Pace - nor do I want to see him fail, but so far he has been a complete non-factor.

Give Pace a break, cheese, he was getting hit by Tackles, TEs and RBs on every down in the Green Bay game, and the Detroit game.

I don't hate the kid, I just want to see him do something. He was so eager to "show people that I deserved to be picked where I was" in the preseason. What happened to that guy?

 

[Cheesebeef]

me english no so good. I wasn't ripping on Pace - I just think he's been a non-factor.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Give Pace a break, cheese, he was getting hit by Tackles, TEs and RBs on every down in the Green Bay game, and the Detroit game.

I don't hate the kid, I just want to see him do something. He was so eager to "show people that I deserved to be picked where I was" in the preseason. What happened to that guy?

OK I'm just going to piss everyone off now at once if I can.

Some of the criticism of Pace is warranted, undeniably he's not making big plays yet. THat said, a big part of the criticism seems to me because people view this draft as us taking Pace OVER Suggs, which is completely wrong.

Furthermore those same people think we could have had Suggs AND Boldin wouldn't that be great. But you have to remember the same experts who panned the picks of pace and Johnson repeatedly told us Johnson would have been there at 37 right?
So if we take Suggs at 6, why in the hell does anybody believe we would have taken Boldin at 37? If Kiper and everyone else is right, Johnson would still be on the board, we obviously had him rated ahead of Boldin, so we would have taken him not Quan. People are conveniently using Quan as their defense for why taking Suggs was a no brainer, but if we took Johnson over Boldin any idea how bad our offense would be?

So Quan would be OROY somewhere else, we'd have Suggs.

Suggs has 4 sacks, 3 he himself calls coverage sacks, QB pulled the ball down, I tackled him. 4th he beat a TE. We don't get coverage let alone coverage sacks, I have yet to see anybody put a TE 1 on 1 on Pace this year. So in my mind if Suggs plays for us he has zero sacks.

So instead of the 18th pick having no sacks but playing every down we have the 6th pick with no sacks, playing only on passing downs, and we have Bryant Johnson leading the team in catches with what 18?

 

[SECTION 11]

I still say we take Leftwich.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Suggs has 4 sacks, 3 he himself calls coverage sacks, QB pulled the ball down, I tackled him. 4th he beat a TE. We don't get coverage let alone coverage sacks, I have yet to see anybody put a TE 1 on 1 on Pace this year. So in my mind if Suggs plays for us he has zero sacks.

Russ:

Excellent point. People seem to have no problem concluding that Duane Starks was a "product of the system" in Baltimore, but assume that Terrell Suggs' productivity through four games is all about his talent, not that of his teammates. I don't entirely understand the double standard.

WC

 

[Northern Card]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ESPN Insider on Cards v. Ravens

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Of course, and with exceptions most rookie DE's don't come in and dominate. For example Kearse set the rookie record playing more on the left side than the right.

That's why Peppers and Freeney were so impressive last year they were beating LT's all year.

I guess my point was if you asked me to name the top 3 LT's in the league in no order I'd have Ogden, Pace, Jones and we'll have played all 3 in the first 6 games.

AZCB34 was saying all through the preseason precisely what you said, most of Pace's sacks are coming against backups we need to see him against starting LT's.

If we had a dominant pass rusher I'd have no issue moving Calvin next year to LDE but right now he's our best RDE.

Point taken though there are no gimme's in the NFL for a RDE.

Peppers plays LDE...

Don't you remember him beating BIG at RT, knocking the ball out of Jakes' hand - who then picked it up and made what proved to be a game winning pass down the side lines...

 

[conraddobler]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
OK I'm just going to piss everyone off now at once if I can.

Some of the criticism of Pace is warranted, undeniably he's not making big plays yet. THat said, a big part of the criticism seems to me because people view this draft as us taking Pace OVER Suggs, which is completely wrong.

Furthermore those same people think we could have had Suggs AND Boldin wouldn't that be great. But you have to remember the same experts who panned the picks of pace and Johnson repeatedly told us Johnson would have been there at 37 right?
So if we take Suggs at 6, why in the hell does anybody believe we would have taken Boldin at 37? If Kiper and everyone else is right, Johnson would still be on the board, we obviously had him rated ahead of Boldin, so we would have taken him not Quan. People are conveniently using Quan as their defense for why taking Suggs was a no brainer, but if we took Johnson over Boldin any idea how bad our offense would be?

So Quan would be OROY somewhere else, we'd have Suggs.

Suggs has 4 sacks, 3 he himself calls coverage sacks, QB pulled the ball down, I tackled him. 4th he beat a TE. We don't get coverage let alone coverage sacks, I have yet to see anybody put a TE 1 on 1 on Pace this year. So in my mind if Suggs plays for us he has zero sacks.

So instead of the 18th pick having no sacks but playing every down we have the 6th pick with no sacks, playing only on passing downs, and we have Bryant Johnson leading the team in catches with what 18?

Ah thanks pretty much lays it out there.

Russ you have to admit though if Suggs were here he'd draw double teams and then we could watch Wakefield manage to get if not to the QB at least close enough to start waving at him....dosen't look good on stat sheets but these guys would be happy.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by conraddobler
Ah thanks pretty much lays it out there.

Russ you have to admit though if Suggs were here he'd draw double teams and then we could watch Wakefield manage to get if not to the QB at least close enough to start waving at him....dosen't look good on stat sheets but these guys would be happy.

Funny. I'm not saying that we should have taken Suggs, but if he was here, his impact couldn't be much more non-existent than we have with Pace. At least Suggs would get double-teamed. Pace is nonexistent. At least he takes the LT out of the play.

For the record, I wanted Jimmy Kennedy at the time of the draft. Now, I wish we'd taken Byron Leftwich.

For what it's worth, those of us who are saying that we COULD have had Suggs and Boldin are, in fact, correct. Whether or not we WOULD have had Suggs and Boldin is another story, and you're probably right. Frankly, double-teams on ANYONE would be better than what we have now, which is four linemen on four rushers and one guy standing around chatting with the QB until he decides he wants to throw it to any number of open recievers.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I think a lot of you are overlooking a little detail here.

Dennis Johnson's play has been improving greatly. It has resulted in some changes in player utilization. Wakefield has been spending a lot more time at RDE with Johnson on the left. Pace has been used more in the obvious passing situations. Pace may be the official "starter" but his playing time has diminished the past 2 games. I say as a direct result of Johnson's improvement.
That's encouraging.

As far as the upcoming game is concerned, I would expect, under the present circumstances, Wakefield to continue seeing a lot of time at RE as the first priority would have to be . . . stop Jamal Lewis.

Pace can be used more when there are more likely passing situations. I wouldn't even be surprised to see something like Ransom maybe lining up at DE also if they are having trouble stopping the run.

No doubt about it, this is going to be another tough test for this team, but at least we shouldn't get roasted so much due to the anemic pass defense....I think even that should be sufficient here. If we can reasonably contain the run, I think we match up a lot better than we have the past few weeks.
If the Cards are able to get a decent lead and force the Ravens into more of a passing game, the breaks should start falling the Cards way.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Give Pace a break, cheese, he was getting hit by Tackles, TEs and RBs on every down in the Green Bay game, and the Detroit game.

I don't hate the kid, I just want to see him do something. He was so eager to "show people that I deserved to be picked where I was" in the preseason. What happened to that guy?

I cant help it if you dont watch the games...Once you do, feel free to bring the topic back up.