ESPN Insider suggests....fasten your seat belts

[Cheesebeef]

Nash/Gortat for Harden/Ibaka?

did Sam Presti all of a sudden start smoking meth? Because that's the only way he'd ever even consider this deal.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nash/Gortat for Harden/Ibaka?

This frees us up to draft a PG, which seems to be the most abundant of the top available players for our pick and we can worry about a C or a PF/C next year....

#1/Harden/Dudley/Ibaka/Lopez

We'd probably be somewhere between #9 and #13 next year....

Ha. I would do this in a minute, but OKC wont. Nash, Gortat, #13, and more maybe.

Oh well. Harden is a potentially great player. I don't think superstar. Cheese make some sense about going ahead and getting the #2 player. He values Harden a little more than I do, and maybe Gortat a little less.

Ibaka can't be considered a throw in. OKC would be fools to disrupt a finals team this much. That would be tinkering on a Colangelo scale.

 

[Joe Mama]

do you know why the Hawks ended up being a 50 and fade team? because they were IDIOTS AFTER they signed JJ. they had JJ, Josh Smith and Horford and were in a DESPERATE situation at PG... staring at Chris Paul and Deron Williams... and took Marvin freaking Williams.

you put either of those guys on that team and they're a perenial title contender, especially in the East and especially if they picked Paul.

the key is making the right moves AFTER signing Harden. We'd still be terrible next year even with him which means when we got our shot in the lotto next year, we'd just have to make the right pick instead of going Marvin Williams. THAT pick is what doomed the Hawks. Not JJ's contract.

THIS. I wait to respond and Beefcheese saved me the time. I have no idea what the Atlanta management was thinking when everybody and their mom knew they needed a point guard and they had two great point guards staring them right in the face. That really was one of the most stupid draft picks in NBA history.

Of course I'm not sure I have faith in the Phoenix Suns current front office
to do better, but nothing we can do about that.

Joe

 

[sunsfan88]

Nash/Gortat for Harden/Ibaka?

That's ridculous trade.

Durant/Westbrook for Dudley/Nash/#13

That's more like it.

We get our franchise player in Durant and Westbrook is a great #2 option. Nash has been a humble leader in Phoenix and now Durant will take over and do a fine job.

Sign Dragic and Hibbert.

Dragic/Westbrook/Durant/Frye/Hibbert

 

[sunsfan88]

good GOD... I'm not saying will be miserable because he doesn't eventually win a title. i'm saying that if he goes to Toronto, he'll be miserable playing his last couple years on a terrible team. Again, we've already seen him talk about being unhappy playing on the current suns team because he thinks ownership has bungled things.

And again, I'm saying that he won't be miserable if he goes to Toronto. First of all that's his home, so playing there wouldn't be for winning or money or anything, it would be for pride. To play for your own country is a prideful thing...if you were from a different country and lived elsewhere, then you would understand.

Second of all, who is to say that Toronto will suck? They already have Baragani who is like a poor man's Dirk. Nash will utilize him to his strengths and they have Valacunias coming in from Europe. He's highly regarded there and many said if he was in this draft, he would be a top 3 pick. Also they are in dicussions to trade the #8 pick for Gay/Iggy/Deng.

Nash
DeRozan
Gay/Iggy/Deng
Baragani
Valacuinas

^^That's a playoff team in the East easily. Also a much better team than Phoenix unless we make some drastic changes which I'm not expecting.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's ridculous trade.

Durant/Westbrook for Dudley/Nash/#13

That's more like it.

We get our franchise player in Durant and Westbrook is a great #2 option. Nash has been a humble leader in Phoenix and now Durant will take over and do a fine job.

Sign Dragic and Hibbert.

Dragic/Westbrook/Durant/Frye/Hibbert

Surely you forgot this

 

[Gee!]

I really hope this doesn't happen.. Harden as the go to guy scares the crap outta me.. He isn't that good.. I don't want him anywhere near this team.. So with that said, it will happen as Sarver continues in his many errors..

 

[SunsTzu]

do you know why the Hawks ended up being a 50 and fade team? because they were IDIOTS AFTER they signed JJ. they had JJ, Josh Smith and Horford and were in a DESPERATE situation at PG... staring at Chris Paul and Deron Williams... and took Marvin freaking Williams.

you put either of those guys on that team and they're a perenial title contender, especially in the East and especially if they picked Paul.

the key is making the right moves AFTER signing Harden. We'd still be terrible next year even with him which means when we got our shot in the lotto next year, we'd just have to make the right pick instead of going Marvin Williams. THAT pick is what doomed the Hawks. Not JJ's contract.

I understand your premise, but your timeline is a bit off. Horford was drafted 2 years after Paul. I also think that team is pretty flawed on the interior. Smith is talented but an undersized 4, they would have needed great complimentary players to make a Paul/JJ/Smith core a legit contender.

 

[elindholm]

I understand your premise, but your timeline is a bit off. Horford was drafted 2 years after Paul. I also think that team is pretty flawed on the interior. Smith is talented but an undersized 4, they would have needed great complimentary players to make a Paul/JJ/Smith core a legit contender.

Right. I'm a big Chris Paul fan, but he doesn't seem to be at the level of a #1 on a contending team. He has Blake Griffin and a pretty decent supporting cast with the Clippers, and they didn't make much noise. Sure, Paul's been hurt on and off, but that's normal for him -- it has to be factored in.

Also, keep in mind that the Hawks had to win the lottery to get Horford at #3; otherwise that pick went to Phoenix. So they started with Johnson, have had some pretty good luck (including scoring big with Josh Smith at #17, terrific value for that draft position), and are still in the 50-and-fade doldrums. Which all Suns fans have hated for years, right up until this discussion started.

 

[Mainstreet]

Right. I'm a big Chris Paul fan, but he doesn't seem to be at the level of a #1 on a contending team. He has Blake Griffin and a pretty decent supporting cast with the Clippers, and they didn't make much noise. Sure, Paul's been hurt on and off, but that's normal for him -- it has to be factored in.

Also, keep in mind that the Hawks had to win the lottery to get Horford at #3; otherwise that pick went to Phoenix. So they started with Johnson, have had some pretty good luck (including scoring big with Josh Smith at #17, terrific value for that draft position), and are still in the 50-and-fade doldrums. Which all Suns fans have hated for years, right up until this discussion started.

The Suns are no longer even a playoff contender. They have entered the category of beggars can't be choosers. This is what has changed.

As for the Hawks I still contend Horford, Johnson, Smith and Teague could make a really good playoff team and not dismissed offhand as just a possible 50 win discard. Horford was injured last season. Still I do not see them not being able to get by the Heat which is unfortunate. I just do not think the Hawks are a good example of what you are trying to say.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns are no longer even a playoff contender. They have entered the category of beggars can't be choosers. This is what has changed.

This just isn't true. Yes, their options are limited if they feel like they need to do something right away -- which is exactly why they shouldn't be in a hurry. They need time to accumulate assets. You can't rebuild for a championship around Gortat, Dudley, and the #13 pick.

As for the Hawks I still contend Horford, Johnson, Smith and Teague could make a really good playoff team and not dismissed offhand as just a possible 50 win discard. Horford was injured last season. Still I do not see them not being able to get by the Heat which is unfortunate.

Or the Bulls, because they don't have Derrick Rose, just as they don't have LeBron James. So their ceiling is #3 in the East, unless either the Heat or Bulls suffers a catastrophe.

I just do not think the Hawks are a good example of what you are trying to say.

But they are. They demonstrate the folly of trying to build a contender without a stash of quality assets.

 

[mojorizen7]

Why do so many folks in here think that Harden has to be the #1 guy....the franchise centerpiece....the superstar....the numero uno stud in order for the Suns to start a rebuild and make a hypothetical trade like this? A trade which involves finally moving on by moving an old PG who wants to get paid....

Harden is just one piece of the overall(at least a #3 guy IMO)....and by moving Nashy we're guaranteed a ticket to a high lottery pick next year....where you can(hopefully draft a second piece of the overall.

I'm not even sure what some of you are arguing here. This trade that will never happen is a no-brainer.

 

[SunsTzu]

Or the Bulls, because they don't have Derrick Rose, just as they don't have LeBron James. So their ceiling is #3 in the East, unless either the Heat or Bulls suffers a catastrophe.

Pacers will likely surpass them as soon as next year too. Hawks are a talented but flawed team and I want no part of emulating them.

 

[elindholm]

Why do so many folks in here think that Harden has to be the #1 guy....the franchise centerpiece....the superstar....the numero uno stud in order for the Suns to start a rebuild and make a hypothetical trade like this?

Because Harden would be either gone or frustrated by the time his acquisition mattered. If you bring him in as a #2 and scratch out a couple of 33-win seasons for low lottery picks, you're worse off than if you'd kept the current roster (without Nash or Hill), seen whether the band of motleys could produce, and then either (a) have players who are more valuable than you realized or (b) earn a high lottery seed.

 

[Gee!]

Why do so many folks in here think that Harden has to be the #1 guy....the franchise centerpiece....the superstar....the numero uno stud in order for the Suns to start a rebuild and make a hypothetical trade like this? A trade which involves finally moving on by moving an old PG who wants to get paid....

Harden is just one piece of the overall(at least a #3 guy IMO)....and by moving Nashy we're guaranteed a ticket to a high lottery pick next year....where you can(hopefully draft a second piece of the overall.

I'm not even sure what some of you are arguing here. This trade that will never happen is a no-brainer.

We are now the Atlanta Hawks.. Paying for out the ass for Joe Johnson.. When JJ isnt the guy you give a max contract to..

 

[JCSunsfan]

We are now the Atlanta Hawks.. Paying for out the ass for Joe Johnson.. When JJ isnt the guy you give a max contract to..

wow. My JJ analogy really got legs.

 

[BC867]

... are still in the 50-and-fade doldrums. Which all Suns fans have hated for years, right up until this discussion started.

Yup, I will always hate the 50-and-fade mentality (win at home, don't embarrass yourself on the road, make an appearance in the playoffs).

The sad thing is, with the Suns management so incompetent, returning to 50-and-fade would be an improvement.

It is why I was so pro-Gortat from the day he arrived. Having a real Center was my only genuine enjoyment during the season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And again, I'm saying that he won't be miserable if he goes to Toronto. First of all that's his home, so playing there wouldn't be for winning or money or anything, it would be for pride. To play for your own country is a prideful thing...if you were from a different country and lived elsewhere, then you would understand.

pride goes away pretty quick when you're an also ran. If that floats Nash's boat, so be it, but Toronto shouldn't be an option for someone who actually has any kind of competitive spirit worth a damn.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why do so many folks in here think that Harden has to be the #1 guy....

because it's easier to argue against.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Right. I'm a big Chris Paul fan, but he doesn't seem to be at the level of a #1 on a contending team. He has Blake Griffin and a pretty decent supporting cast with the Clippers, and they didn't make much noise.

what in the world are you talking about? Chris Paul with ANY kind of decent supporting cast is a dynamite #1. He led a pretty mediocre Hornets team to a 57 win season and a #2 seed, losing in 7 to the defending champion Spurs in a 7 game series in 2008 and he took the Clippers to the second round this year where the only player worth a damn was Blake Griffin. Billups was out half the season, DeAndre Jordan is pretty much nothing, Mo Williams balls shrink at the first sign of danger and Caron Butler was playing with one hand.

are you seriously trying to tell me the Hawks didn't make a MAJOR mistake not drafting Paul or Deron Williams? Even without Horford, a Paul/JJ/Smith ********* is pretty damn good and who knows who they could have attracted to that team with Paul at the helm.

 

[sunsfan88]

pride goes away pretty quick when you're an also ran. If that floats Nash's boat, so be it, but Toronto shouldn't be an option for someone who actually has any kind of competitive spirit worth a damn.

Did you read the 2nd part of my post?

 

[Superbone]

This whole thread is moot:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...homa-city-thunder-says-expects-sign-extension

 

[Joe Mama]

This whole thread is moot:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...homa-city-thunder-says-expects-sign-extension

of course it is. This was just Chad Ford's way of filling some space on ESPN insider.

It would drive BC crazy, but I agree that Chris Paul is a pretty good #1. If he's not a #1, who is? Also, I was mistakenly thinking that Harrison Barnes, or rather Marvin Williams, was drafted after Al Horford. If they had drafted Chris Paul/Derron Williams they likely would not have been in position to take Horford.

Josh Smith... I think he's a bum. He's physically gifted but I don't like him. I would see what I could get for him if I was the Hawks.

Joe

 

[Mainstreet]

wow. My JJ analogy really got legs.

Chuckle.

I liked it a lot.

 

[Lorenzo]

Why do so many folks in here think that Harden has to be the #1 guy....the franchise centerpiece....the superstar....the numero uno stud in order for the Suns to start a rebuild and make a hypothetical trade like this? A trade which involves finally moving on by moving an old PG who wants to get paid....

Harden is just one piece of the overall(at least a #3 guy IMO)....and by moving Nashy we're guaranteed a ticket to a high lottery pick next year....where you can(hopefully draft a second piece of the overall.

I'm not even sure what some of you are arguing here. This trade that will never happen is a no-brainer.

Harden is a bench guy that can supplement a superstar(s) player(s). he is not a building block. But I thought he played great against the mavs, lakers, and spurs. then he got into the finals and completely shrunk. he was really the difference in helping the heat win those games. I think he is really like a jason terry. he is not a guy that I would always bet on to come through, but he is going to be that guy who will help you win a lot of games. It is just strange how he completely disappeared in the finals.