ESPN on Cardinals' Decision-makers

[cardsfanmd]

With the 5th overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft, the Arizona Cardinals select Brian Boitano.


_

I stand corrected

 

[cardsfanmd]

What would Brian Boitono do, if we were on the clock,
He'd pick an all pro or two, that's what Brian Boitano'd do.
When Joe Thomas, AP and Brown were taken before us,
Brian Boitano took some schmuch projected for the 7th round,
Then he became our new left tackle, anchoring our line,
And Brian Boitano's the new GM, 'cause that's what Brian Boitano'd do.

Hey that took some work, I am impressed Stout.
Graves actually reminds me of a little black Cartman.

 

[Covert Rain]

According to Rod Grave he runs the show and that was not the case. I am sure we all believed that.

The guy can't GM a pop warner team and thank god Whiz is probably going to have the final say in the draft.

 

[BigRedArk]

I don't think you always defend Graves either Skorp and that gives you credit with me. You seem to call it like you see it with him and both praise and criticize when you see fit.

I try hard not to fall into the RG bashing mode. I thought he was calling the shots in the 2003 draft. Maybe it was Mac I dunno. That was the first draft after Fergie officially left the team IIRC. If so I give him credit for picking Boldin, Hayes and Wells. He also gets credit for making that dumb trade down too. If not him then Mac but somebody has to take the blame and the credit for that draft. On the heirarchal (sp) chart RG was higher up than Mac.

I want him to succeed and make good shrewd player decisions. Winning starts in the FO. He has to work under shadow of the old man so maybe I should give him some more slack than I do because of that. Michael however said he had all of the final say now so he won't have any excuses starting this year.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Good news, everyone!



Who's excited for draft day?

Jesus I am so freaking sick and tired of the freaking doom and gloom. DG wasn't all that great. His 2005 draft SUCKED!!!! Name me one good player from that draft.Graves drafted Boldin did he not? HE drafted Gerald Hayes. He had the reigns on the 2003 draft and did reasonably well with a crappy class. Green took Fitz in 2004. 2004 is going to go down as the defining draft year of our generation. You couldn't miss. Green sucked in '05 and he took Leinart in 06. Only a moron would have passed on him in the 10 slot. 2006 was also an unbelieveably strong draft class.

Can we just give everyone the benefit of the doubt. This FO threw serious cash to get A) a premire RB and B) top notch coaches twice (DG was premire before comign here). This is not the same Cards of 15 years ago and if you were a true fan K9 you would see that. Just chill out it's APRIL!

As for the draft where can we go worng at #5? We either get our starting LT who is in the top three rated players in the draft. Or we get a DE who is in the top 5 players in the draft. Or we get a RB who is in the top 2 players in the draft. WTF is the problem. Either way this team will be much much better. All that was missing last year was coaching.

How do you know it's different you ask? We have a premire coach who is starting out his career willing to come here. We have players coming here to WIN not for money/retirement. We have star studded players extending their contracts to win here. If you want to WHINE do so in September if we are 0-4. If not chill out and let the coach and Graves run the draft and the team.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Jesus I am so freaking sick and tired of the freaking doom and gloom. DG wasn't all that great. His 2005 draft SUCKED!!!! Name me one good player from that draft.Graves drafted Boldin did he not? HE drafted Gerald Hayes. He had the reigns on the 2003 draft and did reasonably well with a crappy class. Green took Fitz in 2004. 2004 is going to go down as the defining draft year of our generation. You couldn't miss. Green sucked in '05 and he took Leinart in 06. Only a moron would have passed on him in the 10 slot. 2006 was also an unbelieveably strong draft class.

Can we just give everyone the benefit of the doubt. This FO threw serious cash to get A) a premire RB and B) top notch coaches twice (DG was premire before comign here). This is not the same Cards of 15 years ago and if you were a true fan K9 you would see that. Just chill out it's APRIL!

As for the draft where can we go worng at #5? We either get our starting LT who is in the top three rated players in the draft. Or we get a DE who is in the top 5 players in the draft. Or we get a RB who is in the top 2 players in the draft. WTF is the problem. Either way this team will be much much better. All that was missing last year was coaching.

How do you know it's different you ask? We have a premire coach who is starting out his career willing to come here. We have players coming here to WIN not for money/retirement. We have star studded players extending their contracts to win here. If you want to WHINE do so in September if we are 0-4. If not chill out and let the coach and Graves run the draft and the team.

It's pretty hard to call someone a premier coach when in the same sentence it says"starting out his career". That's a pretty big assumption on anyone's part.

 

[CtCardinals78]

It's pretty hard to call someone a premier coach when in the same sentence it says"starting out his career". That's a pretty big assumption on anyone's part.

You're right I should phrase that differently. Whiz has been one of the top prospects for a coach for that last two seasons now. The potential is there. My point is is that I am not ready to throw away the season on April 12, when we are in a can't miss position at #5. I am just sick of reading same old Cardinals when it's not the case. It's bad enough we get ripped in the media all the time, it's worse when it comes from us.

 

[lobo]

I am.

That's two of us!

 

[ajcardfan]

BS. Do you honestly think that Whiz has no control or say over who the Cards take in the draft?






Whiz starts in a hole because of who hired him?

Well, I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing the coach get all the credit and blame for our won-loss record and personnel. Tobin, McGinnis and Green were all scapegoated while the front office got off scot free for the most part. There is absolutely no reason to not put the bullseye on Graves' back now. Go back and listen to the press conference where he got his extension and Green was fired. It's all about Rod now, and it's about time.

 

[ajcardfan]

You're right I should phrase that differently. Whiz has been one of the top prospects for a coach for that last two seasons now. The potential is there. My point is is that I am not ready to throw away the season on April 12, when we are in a can't miss position at #5. I am just sick of reading same old Cardinals when it's not the case. It's bad enough we get ripped in the media all the time, it's worse when it comes from us.

How can any Cards fan say THAT?

 

[lobo]

I'm about the draft. This thread is talking about the draft. The draft hasn't happened yet. Wait until it does to declare it a disaster.

You are wasting your breath. You will find if you have not yet that if there is nothing to whine about there is nothing to write about. Common sense and logic go out the window and emotion overtakes the situation. Best thing to do is lay low, enjoy the draft and hope that something crazy does not take place, which I highly doubt.

 

[kerouac9]

I am just sick of reading same old Cardinals when it's not the case. It's bad enough we get ripped in the media all the time, it's worse when it comes from us.

I never say "same old Cardinals." They make entirely new stupid mistakes every year.

They get ripped in the media all the time? The reports of the Whis regime have been positively fawning, especially in the local media, and the Cards are always listed as a sleeper team to make the playoffs.

You can get your hopes up, but this team, especially if it transitions into a 3-4 this season, looks a lot like a 2-14 team. If Whis was doing what he said he'd do when he came in--correct some of the discipline problems and let Clancy fix the defense--along with improving the OL instead of tearing it apart, then I'd have more enthusiasm.

Even if you anticipate the Whis hiring to be a good move, personnel-wise every step the Cards have made this offseason has resulted in a sprained ankle. We still don't have an OT.

And I still anticipate reaching the #5 spot with Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas, and Adrian Peterson off the board. Even if Adrian Peterson on the board, there's no guarantee that the Cards take him because they're paying Edge, Arrington, and Shipp.

Maybe you see a draft full of promise, but we're going into the draft with more holes to fill then we have useful draft choices, and that seems more like 2003 or 2005 than it does 2004, and you saw how those years worked out. We got several good players in 2003, but they didn't fully contribute until three seasons later.

 

[lobo]

[


And why am I not surprised that you think ESPN is crediable but SI is not? Whouldn't have anything to do with the ESPN article agreeing with you and the SI article not agreeing with you now would it?[/quote]


Do yourself a favor and reread what I posted vis a vis "save your breath.

Did you read or know about Don Quixote? Do you know what fighting windmills is all about? In between our pick in round 1 and round 2, go on the internet and read a summary of this famous classic. You will be better for it.

 

[lobo]

But the reports that Graves shirks the basics of his job are lies. In the end, you need to choose who to believe, me and nidan, or the media bashers who don't really know what goes on in the Cards front office because the Cards are so secretive.[/quote


Regarding secretive fronr office. Cardinals are far from the most secretive.
Your piece was well written, I totally agree with your point of view. The time to be critical is after the season is over and through a non-emotional
critique we should go for it. That is my point of view.

 

[BigRedArk]

Well, I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing the coach get all the credit and blame for our won-loss record and personnel. Tobin, McGinnis and Green were all scapegoated while the front office got off scot free for the most part. There is absolutely no reason to not put the bullseye on Graves' back now. Go back and listen to the press conference where he got his extension and Green was fired. It's all about Rod now, and it's about time.

I agree. Winning starts in the FO.

 

[CtCardinals78]

I never say "same old Cardinals." They make entirely new stupid mistakes every year.

1.They get ripped in the media all the time? The reports of the Whis regime have been positively fawning, especially in the local media, and the Cards are always listed as a sleeper team to make the playoffs.

2.You can get your hopes up, but this team, especially if it transitions into a 3-4 this season, looks a lot like a 2-14 team. If Whis was doing what he said he'd do when he came in--correct some of the discipline problems and let Clancy fix the defense--along with improving the OL instead of tearing it apart, then I'd have more enthusiasm.

3.Even if you anticipate the Whis hiring to be a good move, personnel-wise every step the Cards have made this offseason has resulted in a sprained ankle. We still don't have an OT.

4.And I still anticipate reaching the #5 spot with Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas, and Adrian Peterson off the board. Even if Adrian Peterson on the board, there's no guarantee that the Cards take him because they're paying Edge, Arrington, and Shipp.

5.Maybe you see a draft full of promise, but we're going into the draft with more holes to fill then we have useful draft choices, and that seems more like 2003 or 2005 than it does 2004, and you saw how those years worked out. We got several good players in 2003, but they didn't fully contribute until three seasons later.

1. They do? Really I saw reports praising us for our hire since then it's been Seattle this San Francisco that. In fact on Foxsports.com today a writer tabbed 3 or 4 Cardinal games as the worst game in that particular week. Then at the end he implied AZ sucks and isn't going anywhere. Not exactly fawning.

2. Despite what is said this is a 4-3 base defense. There will be some 3-4 I anticipate mostly a 4-3 simply because we don't have the personal for a 3-4. If anything we'll run a hybrid like PIT will between a 3-4 and Tampa 2 to ease in the transition. Plus it could be a smokescreen by Whiz to try and lure teams to trade up. Also how does letting one overrated tackle on the O-line go qualify as tearing it apart? DG teared it apart with crappy coaching. Whiz let ONE guy go with an excellent coach.

3. What moves have me made. LD was let go. BFD. We can replace him easily. Even though I don't think he should have been let go, I am confident he can be replaced with a 1st or 2nd rounder (if Thomas isn't there)

4. Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas, or AP will be there when we pick at 5. Don't forget Russel and CJ will go in the top 5. That leaves either AP, Adams, or Thomas there according to my math. Just because Shipp and Arrington are there doesn't mean they pass on AP. Shipp or Arrington are expendable when AP is staring you in the face.

5. I don't see a draft full of promise. But I do see a #5 pick that's can't miss and full of potential. It's a deep draft for D line and reasonally deep for O-line and LB. We got one awesome player in '03 that contributed right away and is responsible for getting some players here and to extend contracts.

All I am saying is give it a chance. It's April, yeah maybe some things are the same but at least give this a chance. Firing Green probably wins us 4 games right there. I am not a RG fan, but I see things with this team in terms of attitude I have never seen before. I believe that AZ can do well. Maybe not the playoffs next year, but it will be better than 5-11 or as you are predicting 2-14.

 

[BigRedArk]

But the reports that Graves shirks the basics of his job are lies. In the end, you need to choose who to believe, me and nidan, or the media bashers who don't really know what goes on in the Cards front office because the Cards are so secretive.[/quote


Regarding secretive fronr office. Cardinals are far from the most secretive.
Your piece was well written, I totally agree with your point of view. The time to be critical is after the season is over and through a non-emotional
critique we should go for it. That is my point of view.

Let's see now how many winning seasons in a row have the Cards put together in their modern history? Heck how about the last 10 yrs? Ahhh but let's don't question anything they are talking about doing because we are in the playoff hunt every year and no doubt will be this year too. Just relax and have faith.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Don't believe everything you read on ESPN. I know it was from "Scouts.Inc" and it's supposedly "Insider" info...but, they probably got the info from Dennis Green himself...maybe a parting shot at the Cardinals organization. Also, don't forget Jeremy Green is a writer on ESPN.com.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Like Davis or not, we would have the luxury of drafting a stud player at 5 if we retained him. We have some major holes, namely at linebacker and offensive line and I think we have to have an great draft to make the playoffs. I really hope we don't reach at 5, and I don't think Thomas will be available.

 

[JasonKGME]

I never say "same old Cardinals." They make entirely new stupid mistakes every year.

They get ripped in the media all the time? The reports of the Whis regime have been positively fawning, especially in the local media, and the Cards are always listed as a sleeper team to make the playoffs.

You can get your hopes up, but this team, especially if it transitions into a 3-4 this season, looks a lot like a 2-14 team. If Whis was doing what he said he'd do when he came in--correct some of the discipline problems and let Clancy fix the defense--along with improving the OL instead of tearing it apart, then I'd have more enthusiasm.

Even if you anticipate the Whis hiring to be a good move, personnel-wise every step the Cards have made this offseason has resulted in a sprained ankle. We still don't have an OT.

And I still anticipate reaching the #5 spot with Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas, and Adrian Peterson off the board. Even if Adrian Peterson on the board, there's no guarantee that the Cards take him because they're paying Edge, Arrington, and Shipp.

Maybe you see a draft full of promise, but we're going into the draft with more holes to fill then we have useful draft choices, and that seems more like 2003 or 2005 than it does 2004, and you saw how those years worked out. We got several good players in 2003, but they didn't fully contribute until three seasons later.

Just out of curiousity if Joe Thomas is there at #5 and the Cards take him, and it appears that was the plan all along, will you give Graves and the team credit for not panicking and paying Big $50 Million just so we could say we had a LT? Or will you just call it luck?

 

[Skkorpion]

En fuego, good post. You're looking through your own eyes.

 

[Duckjake]

3. What moves have me made. LD was let go. BFD. We can replace him easily. Even though I don't think he should have been let go, I am confident he can be replaced with a 1st or 2nd rounder (if Thomas isn't there)

Sadly having to use a 1st or 2nd round draft choice to specifically replace one player does not meet the definition of easily. If we could replace him easily we would just get a guy from some small college in the 6th round and throw him out there at LT on Sundays.

Don't ever forget that while getting rid of David Boston and Frank Sanders proved to be a good thing it cost the Cardinals two first round and one 2nd round draft choice to replace them.

(It still bothers me that Boston went south so fast that the Cards had to let him go just 1 season after he set the franchise single season record for receiving yards. It just seems like we can never catch a break.)

 

[Skkorpion]

To all who posted on this topic, the discussion has been excellent. Really, who among us is not worried, at least a bit, about the new regime and Rod Graves' increased influence?

Even the frustration posts like CT's were not over the top. We are all frustrated.

It's threads like this that draw the unregistered readers (guests) up to 80 or more at a time, to read what you have to say. The posters make this place.

If you are a lurker and have something to add, please do so.

My apologies to many of you whose posts I have wanted to answer but haven't yet.

We are all Cards fans and react differently to the losing. There is room here for all of us.

This is overall the best pre-draft participation we've had on the Cards board in ASFN's short history. Keep it up.

 

[Duckjake]

This is overall the best pre-draft participation we've had on the Cards board in ASFN's short history. Keep it up.

Has it really been 5 years?

 

[CtCardinals78]

To all who posted on this topic, the discussion has been excellent. Really, who among us is not worried, at least a bit, about the new regime and Rod Graves' increased influence?

Even the frustration posts like CT's were not over the top. We are all frustrated.

It's threads like this that draw the unregistered readers (guests) up to 80 or more at a time, to read what you have to say. The posters make this place.

If you are a lurker and have something to add, please do so.

My apologies to many of you whose posts I have wanted to answer but

haven't yet.

We are all Cards fans and react differently to the losing. There is room here for all of us.

This is overall the best pre-draft participation we've had on the Cards board in ASFN's short history. Keep it up.

Skkorp, Although I love this board and like everyone here (we MUST stick together) you are by far hands down my favorite poster.