ESPN Ranks Cards' All-Time QBs

[Cheesebeef]

That list is a joke.

1--Warner
2--Hart
3--Lomax
4--Plummer
5--Palmer

wha? I don't know how anyone could put Palmer lower than Plummer. In his four years here, we've won 10, 11, 13 and 7 games... while he's thrown for 94 TDs/50 Ints. Those four season destroy anything Plummer was able to do with either wins or stats during his run as QB.

 

[BigRedRage]

Plummer, warner and Palmer are the only good quarterbacks I have watched on the Cardinals.

I remember Chris Chandler but he was only good for the falcons

Also remember tupa and mccown.

I don't go back far enough to make arguments for other quarterbacks

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Jetstream Green]

I agree Lomax should be much higher ... he played on some horrendous teams!

I would not say he played on horrendous teams as much as the NFC East was the elite division in my opinion

 

[Stout]

What team did we have around Plummer v the teams we've had around Palmer? 'Nough said. It's more an indictment of the QBs we've had than saying Plummer was that good, but he led us to our first playoff win in forever and was the defining character of the Cardiac Cards. Palmer couldn't take an elite team to the SB.

 

[TJ]

What team did we have around Plummer v the teams we've had around Palmer? 'Nough said. It's more an indictment of the QBs we've had than saying Plummer was that good, but he led us to our first playoff win in forever and was the defining character of the Cardiac Cards. Palmer couldn't take an elite team to the SB.

Easier, yet, more believable argument: the elite team was made so because of Palmer's play.

When Plummer was at AZ, he never a) got to a 10+ win season 2) earned an MVP vote, 3) got to the pro bowl 4) managed a top 5 offense. All things Palmer did, and beyond.

 

[TJ]

wha? I don't know how anyone could put Palmer lower than Plummer. In his four years here, we've won 10, 11, 13 and 7 games... while he's thrown for 94 TDs/50 Ints. Those four season destroy anything Plummer was able to do with either wins or stats during his run as QB.

Truth. Palmer's worst season in AZ is better than Plummer's best in AZ:

 

[Cheesebeef]

What team did we have around Plummer v the teams we've had around Palmer? 'Nough said. It's more an indictment of the QBs we've had than saying Plummer was that good, but he led us to our first playoff win in forever and was the defining character of the Cardiac Cards. Palmer couldn't take an elite team to the SB.

was ANYONE saying we had an ELITE team going into Bruce's first year in 2013? No. Once Palmer got the system down, the team totally clicked and went 8-2 down the stretch. That O-line started Levi Freaking Brown, Bradley Sowell and a heap of other trash. That D was great, but they didn't start putting together Ws until Palmer elevated the offense.

And you have to be kidding me that the 2014 team was "elite". With Palmer they were 6-0, without him, they were 5-5. 'Nough said. That team had a gimp Honey Badger, started Ellington at RB, still had no RT, the D just lost Washington AND Dansby and it was held together by spit, gum and twigs by Bowles.

And Palmer playing at an MVP level was the catalyst for us being elite in 2015. Everyone bitched and complained about our D, that it's ranking was a mirage and that in tight games, they would seemingly always blow a lead only to see Palmer lead a winning score.

Last year, the whole team punted. One bad season... in which Palmer STILL had a better year than Jake ever did and if not for missed FGs, would still have tied or bettered Jake's best season (where the team made EVERY BIG FG).

Plummer had one okay season, playing with a TON of talent on D, had WRs galore and a 1000 yard running back... and barely won games by the skin of his teeth. After that he was trash, just like the rest of the team.

 

[Jetstream Green]

What team did we have around Plummer v the teams we've had around Palmer? 'Nough said. It's more an indictment of the QBs we've had than saying Plummer was that good, but he led us to our first playoff win in forever and was the defining character of the Cardiac Cards. Palmer couldn't take an elite team to the SB.

Take a look at our defense that year and our offense was not that shabby, and Dallas found that out but Plummer was not good enough either for the Vikings... I will always dig Plummer but to chunk Palmer at the end in a suggestion for something Plummer could never achieve is complete piling on and frankly hot air

 

[JeffGollin]

Warner
Palmer
Hart
Johnson
Lomax
Plummer

& I can't help but wonder how good Timmy Rosenbach could have been had he stayed healthy.

 

[CardNots]

Warner
Palmer
Hart
Johnson
Lomax
Plummer

& I can't help but wonder how good Timmy Rosenbach could have been had he stayed healthy.

It wasn't a health issue more life and death choice. Based solely on the velocity in which he was taking blindsided hits he chose correctly. Get out while you can still speak.

I agree with you, good offensive line and he was top 5 for sure. Luv'd his grit...

 

[CardNots]

By the way, I felt Kurt left for the same reason.

 

[oaken1]

I am sorely disappointed that Tom Tupa didn't make anybodys list. He was the only one who could go three and out then punt the ball himself.

 

[daves]

I am sorely disappointed that Tom Tupa didn't make anybodys list. He was the only one who could go three and out then punt the ball himself.

But, it seemed as though more often than not, he would never make it to 4th down, as he would throw an INT instead....

...dave

 

[cardinals]

Hart first then Warner. Warner isnt an all time anything for the Cards. or Warner and Palmer can be 2A AND 2B.
Hart is actually an all time Cardinal.


Paul Christman- actual won the Cards a title in 1947
Jim Hart - actual Cardinals QB
Neil Lomax
Charley Johnson
Kurt warner- all time Rams
Carson Palmer- all time Bengals..that said I still expect him to have a better than decent year with the Cards.
I then might move him up 2 spots

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[NJCardFan]

1. Warner
2. Palmer
3. Lomax
4. Hart

1. Warner because he took this team to a Super Bowl. 2. Palmer because he helped produce the teams all time best single season record and took the team to an NFC championship. 3. Lomax because of his statistical prowess. 4. Hart because of his longevity.

I dont list Plummer because he was a dirtbag player who wasn't loyal to the team.

Why is he a dirtbag? Because the team refused to get him any players to work with and when they did win under him immediately broke up the team? I don't fault him at all for walking.

Truth. Palmer's worst season in AZ is better than Plummer's best in AZ:

Plummer didn't have half the players around him that Palmer had with the exception of a pretty good offensive line.

 

[NJCardFan]

Plummer had one okay season, playing with a TON of talent on D, had WRs galore and a 1000 yard running back... and barely won games by the skin of his teeth. After that he was trash, just like the rest of the team.

With all due respect, you're nuts. Wide receivers galore? This was the receiving corp Plummer had to work with his entire career in AZ:

Rob Moore
Frank Sanders
David Boston
MarTay Jenkins
Nate Poole
Chris Gedney(TE)
Johnny McWilliams(TE)

With backs Larry Centers and Eric Metcalf. That's all. Not exactly galore. Also, after the playoff year the management broke the team up. Even our good defensive players were leaving. Swann, Rice, Miller all left within a couple of years after that playoff season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

With all due respect, you're nuts. Wide receivers galore? This was the receiving corp Plummer had to work with his entire career in AZ:

Rob Moore
Frank Sanders
David Boston
MarTay Jenkins
Nate Poole
Chris Gedney(TE)
Johnny McWilliams(TE)

With backs Larry Centers and Eric Metcalf. That's all. Not exactly galore. Also, after the playoff year the management broke the team up. Even our good defensive players were leaving. Swann, Rice, Miller all left within a couple of years after that playoff season.

The top three you listed were all very good receivers.

I called Plummer a dirtbag, because he was a dirtbag player. He even admitted when he left that he never watched film. He failed to prepare, so he prepared to fail. All of us spent our money and time on that guy and he didn't care enough to do what it took to succeed.

 

[kerouac9]

I liked Plummer a lot. With Centers and Rob Moore we had a good defense too. McGinnis had his chance but he po'ed the wrong people at the wrong time.

Rank of Cards defenses during the time Plummer was a starter: 27, 21, 22, 30, 28, 29. We went to the playoffs in 1998 because of a historically soft schedule and some lucky bounces. McGinnis was a dumpster fire as a coordinator and head coach.

1. Warner
2. Palmer
3. Lomax
4. Hart

1. Warner because he took this team to a Super Bowl. 2. Palmer because he helped produce the teams all time best single season record and took the team to an NFC championship. 3. Lomax because of his statistical prowess. 4. Hart because of his longevity.

I dont list Plummer because he was a dirtbag player who wasn't loyal to the team.

You can feel however you want about Plummer's qualities as a person, but how wasn't he loyal to the team?

Easier, yet, more believable argument: the elite team was made so because of Palmer's play.

When Plummer was at AZ, he never a) got to a 10+ win season 2) earned an MVP vote, 3) got to the pro bowl 4) managed a top 5 offense. All things Palmer did, and beyond.

Here's something fun: Cardinals offensive ranks under Warner: 8, 12, 4, 14. Under Palmer: 12, 24, 1, 9.

Cardinals defensive ranks under Warner: 8, 17, 19, 20. Under Palmer: 6, 24, 5, 2.

Palmer's overall W/L performance has been better because he's had a better defense supporting him. It's an elite team because of an elite defense, not because Palmer has been any great shakes consistently. Last year he was 21st in DYAR, 18th in Total QBR. In 2015 he was first in both. In 2014 he was 18th and 12th.

 

[kerouac9]

OT: How weird was that 2005 season? 8th in offense (#1 passing, #32 rushing), 9th in defense, but finished 5-11 with a win expectancy of 6. Team went 2-5 in games decided by a TD or less.

 

[Stout]

Easier, yet, more believable argument: the elite team was made so because of Palmer's play.

When Plummer was at AZ, he never a) got to a 10+ win season 2) earned an MVP vote, 3) got to the pro bowl 4) managed a top 5 offense. All things Palmer did, and beyond.

You make a thesis statement without backing it up. You say Palmer MADE our recent teams great, but why don't we compare defenses, offensive lines, receivers, etc, etc, etc, and see who had better teams around them? BY FAR, Palmer had better teams. I mean, it's not even close.

I could just as easily argue that the team buoyed Palmer to a 10+ win season, helped him to an MVP vote, helped him to a pro bowl, and supported him in a top 5 offense.

This isn't to proclaim Plummer a great QB, but let's not vote Palmer into the HOF or anything LOL

 

[CardNots]

Even our good defensive players were leaving. Swann, Rice, Miller all left within a couple of years after that playoff season.

Which made me think of Michael Bankston. He went on to have a good career in the NFL. We were seriously cheap back then.

 

[TJ]

You make a thesis statement without backing it up. You say Palmer MADE our recent teams great, but why don't we compare defenses, offensive lines, receivers, etc, etc, etc, and see who had better teams around them? BY FAR, Palmer had better teams. I mean, it's not even close.

I think I backed that up pretty well, but if you need further confirmation:

Since 2013 - Cards are 35-17-1 when Palmer starts. Without Palmer, 6-5.

Sure, you can tell me that the team "buoyed" Palmer out, but looking at the W/L record with and without Palmer, wouldn't you agree that it's easier, but also more accurate, to indicate that Palmer was likely the single most influential variable in the equation?

In addition, let's compare common QB traits, that I think we can both agree on:

Accuracy: Palmer
Arm strength: Palmer
Leadership: Palmer (though Plummer was a pretty good leader)
Mobility: Plummer
Preparation: Palmer
Footwork: Palmer
Intelligence: Palmer

This isn't to proclaim Plummer a great QB, but let's not vote Palmer into the HOF or anything LOL

This is the fundamental problem with your argument. You're assuming that any supportive stance for Palmer is automatic validation of HoF status. I don't think there's anyone here who believes Palmer belongs in Canton. But, we're talking about Palmer vs. Plummer. Logic indicates that Palmer is the superior QB, and I don't even think the margin is close. IMO, the only reason Plummer gets any consideration is because he was the guy who happened to be under center when the team finally broke the playoff seal after 14 years, and on top of that, was fun to watch (though maddening at the same time). Understandably, there's an inherent emotional connection to Jake.

It could also be an indication of how putrid our QBs have been since the team arrived in AZ. I'd rather be arguing Rodgers vs Favre, to be honest, but it is what it is.

 

[Stout]

I'll give you the last statement there, TJ--it is an indication of how putrid our QBs have been.

My final word is that anyone comparing Plummer's teams vs. Palmer's teams and not admitting Palmer has had vastly superior teams around him is insane. Good night, and good luck

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'll give you the last statement there, TJ--it is an indication of how putrid our QBs have been.

My final word is that anyone comparing Plummer's teams vs. Palmer's teams and not admitting Palmer has had vastly superior teams around him is insane. Good night, and good luck

Plummer often had really stupid turnovers that hurt his defense...

 

[NJCardFan]

I'll give you the last statement there, TJ--it is an indication of how putrid our QBs have been.

My final word is that anyone comparing Plummer's teams vs. Palmer's teams and not admitting Palmer has had vastly superior teams around him is insane. Good night, and good luck

You're right when it comes to offensive weapons but give Palmer's Cardinals Plummer's offensive line and defense and we'd be counting rings right now.