ESPN's Offseason Powerpoll

[Jttsaz]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/powerranking?season=2007&week=0

Not quite as optimistic as Prisco's but like the old saying goes it's not the hype but what you do when it counts..

22 (28) Cardinals 5-11-0 Looks like the Cardinals are going to be a popular ''sleeper'' pick again. Will this be the year they actually wake up and make something happen?

Last in the west behind Seattle (11) , San Fran (15) and the Rams (18)

 

[SeattleCard]

someone is drinking the 49er koolaid. Sure, they are better this year, but come on...

 

[CtCardinals78]

I guess too many people got food poisioning off the Cardinal Kool Aid the last few years.

 

[MlKE49ER]

Pretty realistic assessment.

However, by years end Niners will be switching places with Seattle.

I do believe you might pass up the Rams, however.

 

[SeattleCard]

Niners haven't proved JACK yet. Keep dreaming.

 

[Renz]

S.F. is still led by Alex Smith. 'Nuff said.

 

[Skkorpion]

Count me as a 49er admirer. Nolan is a superior coach and the team got its CAP problems under control fast by letting older, but still good players, go.

Their offseason free agent additions were expensive but very good.

Alex Smith does not have small hands. And he's having to play under his third coordinator in three years. That's hard to do, witness Plummer. Smith is smart and has a nice arm.

Mock the Niners at your own risk. I think they win 9 or 10 this year and will battle Seattle all year for the NFCW title.

 

[Redsz]

That is a pretty freakin' laughable ranking. Let me remind you that we are 4-0 against them the last two years. We are also 4-2 in the division last year.

The only FA that even made a 'blip' on my radar was Nate Clements. He is a good corner, but not the best in the NFL. The rest are comparable to what the Cardinals have signed, but the Cardinals are a more talented to team to begin with.

What made me laugh is the reaction to the 9ers bringin in Tully Banta-Cain. The guys has 8.5 sacks in his career. Chike Okeafor had that last year. Let me throw this out there: Karlos Dansby, Gerald Hayes and Chike Okeafor > all of SF's LB's. Yup ALL of them.

Infact, I would say that Cardinals could run the 3-4 better than the 9ers could at this point in time. I would take every single one of our players on defense (except the CB's) over SF's.

 

[MT9erFan]

Here's what is freakin' laughable!

2000 3 13 0 5th NFC East --
2001 7 9 0 4th NFC East --
2002 5 11 0 4th NFC West --
2003 4 12 0 4th NFC West --
2004 6 10 0 3rd NFC West --
2005 5 11 0 3rd NFC West --
2006 5 11 0 4th NFC West --

W L T

2 5 0 (1920-2006, playoffs)

 

[Skkorpion]

9erfan, you're on notice. Insults and taunts are not tolerated from opposing teams fans. Cards fans get a little more slack because this is a Cards site.

 

[Jttsaz]

Here's what is freakin' laughable!

2000 3 13 0 5th NFC East --
2001 7 9 0 4th NFC East --
2002 5 11 0 4th NFC West --
2003 4 12 0 4th NFC West --
2004 6 10 0 3rd NFC West --
2005 5 11 0 3rd NFC West --
2006 5 11 0 4th NFC West --

W L T

2 5 0 (1920-2006, playoffs)

Hard to argue..but the Cards did own the Niners the last 2 years straight so you might want to exclude those years from your list..as much as the Niners improved they still were couldn't get past the Cards the last 2 years...still we don't have those rings to fall back on like you do...

 

[vinnymac]

Hard to argue..but the Cards did own the Niners the last 2 years straight so you might want to exclude those years from your list..as much as the Niners improved they still were couldn't get past the Cards the last 2 years...still we don't have those rings to fall back on like you do...

The 49ers need to quit living in the past. All it does is bring them heartache to what they are now. I am with Skrop when he says the 49ers should be a better team. I hope that the 49ers fall into the cardianls footsteps from last season. Big expectation and no results. Remeber folks, it doesn't matter unless you make it to the playoffs.

 

[Redsz]

Here's what is freakin' laughable!

2000 3 13 0 5th NFC East --
2001 7 9 0 4th NFC East --
2002 5 11 0 4th NFC West --
2003 4 12 0 4th NFC West --
2004 6 10 0 3rd NFC West --
2005 5 11 0 3rd NFC West --
2006 5 11 0 4th NFC West --

W L T

2 5 0 (1920-2006, playoffs)

4-0 over the last two seasons. Nuff, said.

 

[MlKE49ER]

Count me as a 49er admirer. Nolan is a superior coach and the team got its CAP problems under control fast by letting older, but still good players, go.

Their offseason free agent additions were expensive but very good.

Alex Smith does not have small hands. And he's having to play under his third coordinator in three years. That's hard to do, witness Plummer. Smith is smart and has a nice arm.

Mock the Niners at your own risk. I think they win 9 or 10 this year and will battle Seattle all year for the NFCW title.

Actually, he doesn't.
Smith's rookie year is the year the NFL changed the rules regarding prepping balls. No longer were teams allowed to rub the gloss off the balls. While Smith did have problems gripping the new shiny balls, so did all qb's. Finally took Peyton Manning and a group of fellow qb's going to the league at the end of the year, complaining big time, for them to change the very brief policy. Now teams are given 12 balls, and are allowed to pretty much do whatever they want to them.

That is a pretty freakin' laughable ranking. Let me remind you that we are 4-0 against them the last two years. We are also 4-2 in the division last year.

The only FA that even made a 'blip' on my radar was Nate Clements. He is a good corner, but not the best in the NFL. The rest are comparable to what the Cardinals have signed, but the Cardinals are a more talented to team to begin with.

Last year? year before? What does that have to do with this year? NOTHING.
Not going to get into how you won last year, because then you'll just reply "don't make excuses". Fact is you got the W. Fact is you easily could have lost both games.
You obviously didn't follow the offseason that well.
Niners had arguably the best offseason of any team.
As I recall the Card fans were complaining massively on when you were going to get involved.
There is a reason the Niners got a A on FA signings, and drafting.

What made me laugh is the reaction to the 9ers bringin in Tully Banta-Cain. The guys has 8.5 sacks in his career. Chike Okeafor had that last year. Let me throw this out there: Karlos Dansby, Gerald Hayes and Chike Okeafor > all of SF's LB's. Yup ALL of them.

Uh...WHAT???
Did you forget about Manny Lawson? Derek Smith? Brandon Moore? Jeff Ulbrich? lol...you pretty much left out our starters.

Infact, I would say that Cardinals could run the 3-4 better than the 9ers could at this point in time. I would take every single one of our players on defense (except the CB's) over SF's.

You need to read up on our defense again. Considering you missed all of the above LB's, I think you might be in for a shock.

Cards made small strides, by many of your admissions, in the offseason. A late entry into FA, and a solid draft. Seems many of you are counting on the coaching staff to make the huge difference. That remains to be seen.

Niners made big strides in the offseason. Most money to spend in FA..huge amounts of draft picks that were wisely used. Filled a lot of holes. How it all fits together also remains to be seen.

That said, you would be foolish to think two games last year, that both you could easily have lost, has any bearing on this year.

Should be fun.

 

[Redsz]

Last year? year before? What does that have to do with this year? NOTHING.

Then why did YOU bring up our finish in the division since 2000? How the teams peformed in 2000 is irelevant.

But how the teams performed against each recently (i.e the last 2 years) is relevent because both teams feature alot of the same talent and coaches.

Not going to get into how you won last year, because then you'll just reply "don't make excuses". Fact is you got the W. Fact is you easily could have lost both games.

But we didn't. So the point is moot. You guys aren't a playoff team if you can't beat us.

You obviously didn't follow the offseason that well.
Niners had arguably the best offseason of any team.
As I recall the Card fans were complaining massively on when you were going to get involved.
There is a reason the Niners got a A on FA signings, and drafting.

Those rankings mean nothing. It's nice to get off-season press, but 'A' grades in the draft and FA don't mean a winning record.

Uh...WHAT???
Did you forget about Manny Lawson? Derek Smith? Brandon Moore? Jeff Ulbrich? lol...you pretty much left out our starters. You need to read up on our defense again. Considering you missed all of the above LB's, I think you might be in for a shock.

I know all about SF's defense. To put it simply, it's not as good as ours.

As I said, not one of your LB's is as good as Gerald Hayes, Karlos Dansby or Chike Okeafor.

Manny Lawson hasn't done anything yet, Derek Smith will be entering his 12th year in the NFL and just came off a down year and Ulbrick and Cain are average at best.

You don't have one legit, proven pass rusher in your LB core. Meaning that you are going to struggle (again) using the 3-4.

Cards made small strides, by many of your admissions, in the offseason. A late entry into FA, and a solid draft.

We didn't sign a big time FA, but everyone of our moves are comparable to the off-season you had. And yet we made 'small strides'. Right....

Seems many of you are counting on the coaching staff to make the huge difference. That remains to be seen.

It certainly does.

Niners made big strides in the offseason. Most money to spend in FA..huge amounts of draft picks that were wisely used. Filled a lot of holes. How it all fits together also remains to be seen.

It certainly does. But relying on all your draft picks to contribute straight off the bat is not a reciepe for success.

That said, you would be foolish to think two games last year, that both you could easily have lost, has any bearing on this year.

Should be fun.

I'm not basing my opinion on 2 games. I'm basing it off 4 games. 4-0 remember?

 

[vinnymac]

Neither team made the playoffs last season. So it doesn't matter. Like Redsz said it is nice to get an A in the offseason, but talking from experience, A's from the media doesnt translate into wins. 4-0 is all you need to know when it comes to the cardinals and 49ers. Make the playoffs, then come back and talk some smack.

The only move I didn't like from the 49ers is trading up to get Joe Staley. I have a feeling he is going to be a bust. That is good for the Cardinals.

 

[Skkorpion]

Neither team made the playoffs last season. So it doesn't matter. Like Redsz said it is nice to get an A in the offseason, but talking from experience, A's from the media doesnt translate into wins. 4-0 is all you need to know when it comes to the cardinals and 49ers. Make the playoffs, then come back and talk some smack.

The only move I didn't like from the 49ers is trading up to get Joe Staley. I have a feeling he is going to be a bust. That is good for the Cardinals.

Agree with most of it, vinny, except I like Staley. SF rarely makes a mistake on olinemen. Must be their scouts are good evaluators of those positions.

 

[vinnymac]

Agree with most of it, vinny, except I like Staley. SF rarely makes a mistake on olinemen. Must be their scouts are good evaluators of those positions.

I just have a feeling about Staley. I have been wrong before on these things, but right more times than wrong.

 

[MlKE49ER]

Then why did YOU bring up our finish in the division since 2000? How the teams peformed in 2000 is irelevant.

You have me confused with someone else. I didn't bring up your finish in the division since 2000.
I'll say it again. It's completely ridiculous for anyone to state "We beat you last year, so it will happen again."
I guess Seattle can just save the gas coming south to play us, and just mail in the loss, considering we swept them last year.
By your reasoning, it's a lock that we'll sweep the Seahawks again?

But how the teams performed against each recently (i.e the last 2 years) is relevent because both teams feature alot of the same talent and coaches.

as compared to what? playing you last THREE years? lol. Guess you want to leave out that we swept you for our only two wins that year..for some odd reason.
Heck..why not just bring up our all time head to head?

No teams keep the same talent each year.
But hey..lol..considering you brought it up..you're right on one thing.
We kept our coach, and are continuing on his program, which is on track.
You? New coach..new program. No one knows how either will do.

But we didn't. So the point is moot. You guys aren't a playoff team if you can't beat us.

Really?

Again, as I stated above..we swept the Seahawks who got in the playoffs.
You eeked out two weak wins against the Niners. You didn't roll us. You didn't dominate.
If you want to take anything from last year, take the fact you got a W and were lucky. Don't count on luck to last forever.

Those rankings mean nothing. It's nice to get off-season press, but 'A' grades in the draft and FA don't mean a winning record.

of course not. What it does is tell you that you did everything you can to improve your team.
Those who don't improve are doomed to repeat. Those who are active have a lot better chance than those who do nothing.
Just a simple fact.

I know all about SF's defense. To put it simply, it's not as good as ours.

What you mean is last year it wasn't. This year we've done one hell of a job filling holes, and you HOPE they don't make a big difference.

As I said, not one of your LB's is as good as Gerald Hayes, Karlos Dansby or Chike Okeafor.

?? Moore and Hayes were almost identical in stats, with Hayes a little ahead. Moore is clearly ahead of Dansby.
Okeafor?? Isn't he a DE??

Manny Lawson hasn't done anything yet, Derek Smith will be entering his 12th year in the NFL and just came off a down year and Ulbrick and Cain are average at best.

Ulbrich and Cain are backups. Moore is the other starter.

You don't have one legit, proven pass rusher in your LB core. Meaning that you are going to struggle (again) using the 3-4.

You're making a big deal about defense. Our defense was bad last year. That's why we concentrated on mainly defense this offseason. We were 26th in the NFL on defense. Arizona was 29th.
I think we both have some areas to improve..don't you?

It certainly does. But relying on all your draft picks to contribute straight off the bat is not a reciepe for success.

"All of our draft picks" are not expected to start.

Who are you talking about?
Who we're expecting to start are FA signings, and some draft picks will vie for starting positions.

Of course, on that same note..lol...didn't you just sign a lineman that is expected to start? Now THAT is a recipe for disaster, if you ask me.

I'm not basing my opinion on 2 games. I'm basing it off 4 games. 4-0 remember?

Sorry, 4-2 comes to mind..not 4-0

You know what else comes to mind? Niners got better last year. Last year was better than the year before.
I like the trend

 

[vinnymac]

You have me confused with someone else. I didn't bring up your finish in the division since 2000.
I'll say it again. It's completely ridiculous for anyone to state "We beat you last year, so it will happen again."
I guess Seattle can just save the gas coming south to play us, and just mail in the loss, considering we swept them last year.
By your reasoning, it's a lock that we'll sweep the Seahawks again?

as compared to what? playing you last THREE years? lol. Guess you want to leave out that we swept you for our only two wins that year..for some odd reason.
Heck..why not just bring up our all time head to head?

No teams keep the same talent each year.
But hey..lol..considering you brought it up..you're right on one thing.
We kept our coach, and are continuing on his program, which is on track.
You? New coach..new program. No one knows how either will do.

Really?

Again, as I stated above..we swept the Seahawks who got in the playoffs.
You eeked out two weak wins against the Niners. You didn't roll us. You didn't dominate.
If you want to take anything from last year, take the fact you got a W and were lucky. Don't count on luck to last forever.

of course not. What it does is tell you that you did everything you can to improve your team.
Those who don't improve are doomed to repeat. Those who are active have a lot better chance than those who do nothing.
Just a simple fact. What you mean is last year it wasn't. This year we've done one hell of a job filling holes, and you HOPE they don't make a big difference. ?? Moore and Hayes were almost identical in stats, with Hayes a little ahead. Moore is clearly ahead of Dansby.
Okeafor?? Isn't he a DE?? Ulbrich and Cain are backups. Moore is the other starter. You're making a big deal about defense. Our defense was bad last year. That's why we concentrated on mainly defense this offseason. We were 26th in the NFL on defense. Arizona was 29th.
I think we both have some areas to improve..don't you? "All of our draft picks" are not expected to start.

Who are you talking about?
Who we're expecting to start are FA signings, and some draft picks will vie for starting positions.

Of course, on that same note..lol...didn't you just sign a lineman that is expected to start? Now THAT is a recipe for disaster, if you ask me.
Sorry, 4-2 comes to mind..not 4-0

You know what else comes to mind? Niners got better last year. Last year was better than the year before.
I like the trend

I really hope the 9ers sweep the seahawks or vice versa. That means 2 more losses for either team and that helps the cardinals. So what you are saying is that the Cardinals and 49ers are the same exact team? Cause I see a lot of simularities in both teams. Since both teams didn't make the playoffs, what matters is that the cardinals beat the 49ers twice last season. The Cardinals beat the Rams and the Seahawks last season as well. Maybe that is why the cardinals had the best record in their division with 4-2. What was the 49ers division record again? I am not going to worry about the 49ers until it is time to play. Then I will sit and watch the game with my 49er loving brother and enjoy drinking beer and eating brats all afternoon long as the Cardinals kick the crap out of the 49ers. If anything we both can agree it going to be an exciting game to watch.

 

[football karma]

Agree with most of it, vinny, except I like Staley. SF rarely makes a mistake on olinemen. Must be their scouts are good evaluators of those positions.

Kwame Harris.
David Baas.


These are also, prior to Staley, the two highest picked 49er olinemen in the last five years.

I disagree Skorp

 

[MlKE49ER]

I really hope the 9ers sweep the seahawks or vice versa. That means 2 more losses for either team and that helps the cardinals. So what you are saying is that the Cardinals and 49ers are the same exact team? Cause I see a lot of simularities in both teams.

No, not exacty. Saying we both have holes to fill. Our weakness has been our defense, especially DE, and defensive backfield. We addressed the backfield, big time. Jury is out on whether or not we can mount a pass rush. That area alone is responsible for 3-4 losses last year, with opposing qb having all day to throw. Cards bane has been O line, which it appears you have a musical chair syndrome going there, trying to fit in players. Might work...might bite ya.

Since both teams didn't make the playoffs, what matters is that the cardinals beat the 49ers twice last season. The Cardinals beat the Rams and the Seahawks last season as well. Maybe that is why the cardinals had the best record in their division with 4-2. What was the 49ers division record again?

Grasping there. Last year is last year. Let's take game one, for example, against the Niners. You got the W. Gore fumbled in your redzone, 7 pts. Vernon Davis, same thing..7 points for you. 52 yard TD pass from Smith to Lloyd called back on a holding call the NFL later admitted was an error. That's 21 points. You won by 7. Again, it's not like you blew us out in either game or even dominated in either game. You didn't. Most realize those games could have gone either way.
Point is you easily could be 3-3 in division.
You honestly believe because of last year the Niner/Card games are a lock for you?

Doesn't change the end standings though.I am not going to worry about the 49ers until it is time to play. Then I will sit and watch the game with my 49er loving brother and enjoy drinking beer and eating brats all afternoon long as the Cardinals kick the crap out of the 49ers. If anything we both can agree it going to be an exciting game to watch.

I'll agree on that.
(btw..even those that guarantee a "Victory" will be sitting on he edge of their seats come Monday night, saying "OMG..we better win this game" and not "This game is in the bag..no sweat"

 

[vinnymac]

No, not exacty. Saying we both have holes to fill. Our weakness has been our defense, especially DE, and defensive backfield. We addressed the backfield, big time. Jury is out on whether or not we can mount a pass rush. That area alone is responsible for 3-4 losses last year, with opposing qb having all day to throw. Cards bane has been O line, which it appears you have a musical chair syndrome going there, trying to fit in players. Might work...might bite ya. Grasping there. Last year is last year. Let's take game one, for example, against the Niners. You got the W. Gore fumbled in your redzone, 7 pts. Vernon Davis, same thing..7 points for you. 52 yard TD pass from Smith to Lloyd called back on a holding call the NFL later admitted was an error. That's 21 points. You won by 7. Again, it's not like you blew us out in either game or even dominated in either game. You didn't. Most realize those games could have gone either way.
Point is you easily could be 3-3 in division.
You honestly believe because of last year the Niner/Card games are a lock for you?
I'll agree on that.
(btw..even those that guarantee a "Victory" will be sitting on he edge of their seats come Monday night, saying "OMG..we better win this game" and not "This game is in the bag..no sweat"

We could easily be 5-1 in division if it wasn't for the warner fumble in the closing seconds of the rams game in week 3 but he did. Good play by the Rams defense. The first game of the season the cardinals dominated the 49ers until the cardinals went into their prevent to win defense. I am not going to use turnovers and miss tackels as an excuse to losing games. The defense causes turnovers and a player makes a defender miss a tackle. Those are just good plays by the players. When people want to say "if this player didn't turn the ball over here or there, then we would have won the game." Well that is exactlly how teams win a game is by getting turnovers and scoring points off of turnovers. That is also call reaching in a debate. The 49ers have a chance to redeem themselves on Monday night. Until then, 4-0 baby. By the way I do like what the 49ers are doing.

 

[Pariah]

You got the W. Gore fumbled in your redzone, 7 pts. Vernon Davis, same thing..7 points for you. 52 yard TD pass from Smith to Lloyd called back on a holding call the NFL later admitted was an error. That's 21 points. You won by 7.

This is a dangerous road to go down when talking to Cardinals fans. Lately, it's rare that the Cards get blown out and we can point to one or two plays in every game that would have meant a W. So many, in fact, it's easy to get to a 10-6 record last year with this sort of thinking.

I think it's best to say that the good teams don't make those kinds of bungles and win the games instead of counting "what ifs."

Suffice it to say, neither team has been particularly good the last couple of seasons.

 

[football karma]

. Last year is last year. Let's take game one, for example, against the Niners. You got the W. Gore fumbled in your redzone, 7 pts. Vernon Davis, same thing..7 points for you. 52 yard TD pass from Smith to Lloyd called back on a holding call the NFL later admitted was an error. That's 21 points. You won by 7. Again, it's not like you blew us out in either game or even dominated in either game. You didn't. Most realize those games could have gone either way.

A couple thoughts:

this analysis ignores the fact that the Cardinals also turned the ball over inside their redzone, resulting in a SF TD. That play also happened during the Cardinal possesion immediately after the holding call you referenced that wiped out the SF TD -- SF got its TD, it just had to wait five more plays to get it.

The Vernon Davis' fumble was out at the 40 -- the SF D had ample opportunity to avoid a score, or at worst, limit the damage to a FG. Obviously it didnt.

Finally -- after SF had pulled to within a TD with 9 mins to play in the game, AZ took the ball at its own 20, and burned 7:30 of game clock, all three SF timeouts, and the two minute warning to move inside the SF 10 to kick a fieldgoal to make it a 10 point game again with less than two minutes left in the game. That wasnt luck.

Similiar to the second match up, where with the game on the line -- the Cards ran the final 6 minutes or so of the game clock out to win the game.