Fire Their Arses Right Now: CKW, Miller, Grimm and McNulty

[Jay Cardinal]

I know our offense has somehow avoided the records for the worst ever, but they will always be remembered as one of the most non-threatening offenses. I mean I am not sure Lindley could hit some of our receivers in practice uncovered, much less live action. The offensive line has looked better in pass pro the last couple weeks, but remain the worst run-blocking line I have ever seen. Each of the running backs is far from the complete package (Beanie- injuries and fumbles, LSH- too small, Williams- injuries and fumbles).

I am not sure how a head coach survives literally EVERY single offensive player having a career-worst year. Larry Fitz with 674 after 100+ in the Bears game? Unreal. I watch the Bears feed the ball to Marshall and especially the Lions force the ball to Calvin Johnson, thinking Fitz should be able to do exactly the same thing. Or at least how the offense might at least present a threat to score by getting the ball consistently in our best players hands (oh and only healthy player all year). If Whiz has any regrets for this season, I hope it is over why he left Larry completely out of the offensive gameplan for 1-2 quarters at a time nearly all season long. How he played right into the defensive gameplan in allowing defenses to take Fitzgerald entirely off the table.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You must be having a tough time dealing with Housler's injury on what was nearly a stunning TD catch.

I would just ask you this, Dems...please do respond, if you can---

Other than going to the Super Bowl on Kurt Warner's wings---what are the special qualities that CKW brings to the HC position?

a. charisma?
b. accountability?
c. ability to run an NFL quality offense?
d. clock management skills?
e. in game adjustments?
f. week to week adjustments?
g. ability to instill faith and trust in a QB?

Can you honestly say he has any of those qualities covered?

I give Whiz alot more credit for turning Warner back into a great QB than I do Warner leading the Cards to the SB. You want to give Warner all the credir, and Haley, but act like Whiz had no effect whatsoever, which is ridiculous.

I'll answer:
a: charisma, if that was a factor in being a HC, then Dave McGinnis would be hoisting Lombari trophies instead of Belichick and Coughlin.
b: I think he holds everyone accountable, maybe to a fault.
c: no doubt about. As I have pointed out, the 2 times he has had a legit NFL QB, he has gone to the SB.
d: I think he does fine. He has had some mistakes but nothing glaring and persistent. All coaches have had time management blunders.
e and f: these kind of go hand in hand. There were never any complaints when he had a veteran QB running the show. It's tough for any coach to get the rookies and young players the Cards have been using to run the offense much less make adjustments on the fly. As the group matures so will the adjustments. Youth and bad play will cripple any offense.
g: how about the QB install faith in the HC instead of vice versa. It's the players job to please the coach not the other way around.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Did you watch the last MNF game? The 49ers are so much more talented than the Cards that a coaching change wouldn't make any difference.

It's like the equivalent of a Alabama vs Ole Miss game.

It would not matter as much this season, nothing can be done at this point of the season in such a little span of time. I will strongly disagree with you when you say they are so much more talented than the Cards if your including our defense. This Cardinal defense is very good, it is the offense were your evaluation holds true. Acknowledge this defense for what they are and they are very good.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

You must be having a tough time dealing with Housler's injury on what was nearly a stunning TD catch.

I would just ask you this, Dems...please do respond, if you can---

Other than going to the Super Bowl on Kurt Warner's wings---what are the special qualities that CKW brings to the HC position?

a. charisma?
b. accountability?
c. ability to run an NFL quality offense?
d. clock management skills?
e. in game adjustments?
f. week to week adjustments?
g. ability to instill faith and trust in a QB?

Can you honestly say he has any of those qualities covered?

I've actually been thinking about this lately. As a pre-Title 1X female I've not sat in a locker room and listened to a coach. They didn't let girls play. But I've been observing the players and the game for a very long time. So I think I have a different perspective. No, I KNOW I do.

a) Coaches don't need charisma. Weeb Eubanks - Zero charisma. Tony Dungee isn't exactly overwhelming in that department. (And I like him. A lot. But he's not Mr. Charisma.)

b) Have no idea. I don't know what ownership holds him accountable for. Wins? Sure. But if Michael sees this as a growth year, accountability goes bye-bye.

c-e) Horrible. But I'd want to know WHY before I made any decisions to fire him based on that. Too many unknowns. But his clock management stinks. I'll give you that. It stinks with a lot of head coaches. I'd put someone totally anal in charge of clock management.

f) Can't say because we have NO idea why a QB wasn't brought in after Kolb was hurt. What that an ownership thing or a Whiz thing. I dunno. Do you?

g) I'm not big into hand-holding NFL quarterbacks. If they don't have it in their gut and their heart no amount of "rah, rah" is going to instill a dang thing into them. And NO NFL QB should allow his feelings to be hurt by a coach. If they do - I don't want them on my team.

Football according to Dems.

 

[BigRedFan]

How did you come up with them being 5th worst offense in history? (Not arguing it though)

No---you send a message that being the 5th worst offense in NFL history i

 

[Jetstream Green]

You must be having a tough time dealing with Housler's injury on what was nearly a stunning TD catch.

I would just ask you this, Dems...please do respond, if you can---

Other than going to the Super Bowl on Kurt Warner's wings---what are the special qualities that CKW brings to the HC position?

a. charisma?
b. accountability?
c. ability to run an NFL quality offense?
d. clock management skills?
e. in game adjustments?
f. week to week adjustments?
g. ability to instill faith and trust in a QB?

Can you honestly say he has any of those qualities covered?

This is hard to answer Mitch on several questions because some of those questions only matter in the locker room and that is something you, I and a majority of us have no idea on. Charisma? I think he has the proper charisma on how to run a professional program and not a rah rah or meltdown persona. I think there is a strong degree of accountability he knows well and he does not look like a guy at the presser thinking he is not to blame. His time with Pittsburgh and Arizona shows he can run a NFL quality offense but no one can do so with the QBs we have and that is his fault and not his scheme. This is a question of talent and his relation to acquiring it which is his major fault. I will also say that all the fairy dust and support on the planet is not going to help a prospect like Skelton, bringing in a Anderson, Lindley...it is talent and football instincts. These are not high school kids, the whole nurturing aspect is not the downfall...it is a lack of talent to me in a big boy league.

 

[desertdawg]

This is hard to answer Mitch on several questions because some of those questions only matter in the locker room and that is something you, I and a majority of us have no idea on. Charisma? I think he has the proper charisma on how to run a professional program and not a rah rah or meltdown persona. I think there is a strong degree of accountability he knows well and he does not look like a guy at the presser thinking he is not to blame. His time with Pittsburgh and Arizona shows he can run a NFL quality offense but no one can do so with the QBs we have and that is his fault and not his scheme. This is a question of talent and his relation to acquiring it which is his major fault. I will also say that all the fairy dust and support on the planet is not going to help a prospect like Skelton, bringing in a Anderson, Lindley...it is talent and football instincts. These are not high school kids, the whole nurturing aspect is not the downfall...it is a lack of talent to me in a big boy league.

You forgot to put "the system" somewhere in that Whiz shield of a post.

 

[Jetstream Green]

You forgot to put "the system" somewhere in that Whiz shield of a post.

No dawg, it is reality of what I know. If Whis will not let someone else have a more direct hand in acquiring talent, he needs to go because it appears he does have a major say so. These are things we will never really know. I do know with talent on offense he wins. I do know without talent on offense he loses. Talent on offense also for the most part mean the QB. So the question is, who is responsible for the talent and the QB position most of all and acquiring that position. If it is Whis making the final decisions which got us in this mess, he needs to go.

 

[LarryStalling]

The biggest thing I have against Whiz, and I have lots of them, is that he holds everyone accountable, but he fails to hold himself accountable. Never once have I heard him throw himself under the proverbial bus. Not even sure if I remember him throwing a coach under the bus, but you can not have the monumental failures that he has had occur under his watch and not some (or a lot) of it be his fault.

 

[artp]

I thought they said the Cardinals had the 5th worst 3rd down conversion rate since the NFL started tracking.

 

[WarnerHOF]

It would not matter as much this season, nothing can be done at this point of the season in such a little span of time. I will strongly disagree with you when you say they are so much more talented than the Cards if your including our defense. This Cardinal defense is very good, it is the offense were your evaluation holds true. Acknowledge this defense for what they are and they are very good.

Nope. Which units on this team which you take over the 49ers? The 49ers have an all time great LB corps, a damn good secondary full of pro bowlers and a Dline with two solid role players and a dominant DE. It's really not that even close for me when you realize Lenon, Acho, Gay and Johnson are all a significant downgrade from their 49er counterparts.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Nope. Which units on this team which you take over the 49ers? The 49ers have an all time great LB corps, a damn good secondary full of pro bowlers and a Dline with two solid role players and a dominant DE. It's really not that even close for me when you realize Lenon, Acho, Gay and Johnson are all a significant downgrade from their 49er counterparts.

So the defense as well is like the equivalent of a Alabama vs Ole Miss game. Look, I saw the problems the Niners had with the Rams, and it is our talent level at the QB, OL and it seems now the running back position to an extent. That is huge enough on one side of the ball to kill a team, stocked with talent elsewhere. Consider how good our defense could be if they had gotten a rest during this season instead of going back out after our offense ran the three and out.

 

[PACardsFan]

Nope. Which units on this team which you take over the 49ers? The 49ers have an all time great LB corps, a damn good secondary full of pro bowlers and a Dline with two solid role players and a dominant DE. It's really not that even close for me when you realize Lenon, Acho, Gay and Johnson are all a significant downgrade from their 49er counterparts.

That Niners D doesn't look too special tonight!! An ATHLETIC QB can expose any D, even the SF's. I hope the Cardinals are watching this game. We don't necessarily need a 6'5" dude with a gun for an arm.

 

[Jetstream Green]

That Niners D doesn't look too special tonight!! An ATHLETIC QB can expose any D, even the SF's. I hope the Cardinals are watching this game. We don't necessarily need a 6'5" dude with a gun for an arm.

Maybe we should trade up and do whatever it takes to get Gino Smith then. Maybe a poor man's Cam Newton, but he might be the answer to roll the dice on instead of trading for a Rivers or going after the NFL's island of misfit toys in free agency

 

[Duckjake]

I know what Whisenhunt brings to the table. Losses. And nothing else matters. Fire him now? If this were baseball yes but firing Cardinal coaches in season doesn't produce a bump just a disaster.

 

[binkar]

Other than going to the Super Bowl on Kurt Warner's wings---what are the special qualities that CKW brings to the HC position?

a. charisma?
b. accountability?
c. ability to run an NFL quality offense?
d. clock management skills?
e. in game adjustments?
f. week to week adjustments?
g. ability to instill faith and trust in a QB?

Can you honestly say he has any of those qualities covered?

Sorry, but I just really tire of this argument.

I'm not saying Whiz if perfect, or the best coach in the world, but I'd guess the guy is a good coach. When Kurt Warner showed up here he was a retread QB who had just been benched by two other organizations. It could be argued that Whiz was responsible for pulling the best out of Kurt every bit as easily as it could be argued that Whiz rode on Kurt's wings.

I don't care how good a coach is, if he has poor QBs he isn't going to win. Bill Belichick had four losing seasons and one winning season when he was with the Browns. His first year in New England he went 5-11.

a. charisma?

It's been well argued that this is irrelevant, so I won't touch on that. However, I think Whiz handles himself well.

b. accountability?

How can you say he doesn't hold his players accountable on the day he benched his top RB for fumbling in the end zone and benched a QB for poor play? He has fired coordinators. Maybe he doesn't hold Grimm accountable, but I feel he's held people accountable overall.

c. ability to run an NFL quality offense?

When having a adequate QB, he has definitely demonstrated the ability to run a quality NFL offense. With an awful QB he hasn't shown the same ability, but few (if any) coaches have.

d. clock management skills?

I'm sure there are examples of where this has been great, and where it could be improved, but I none immediately come to mind.

e. in game adjustments?

Going back to last year, our offense improves in nearly every offensive category in the second half (over the first half).

f. week to week adjustments?

g. ability to instill faith and trust in a QB?

Would you trust any of these QBs? They are all terrible! The fact the we went 7-2 at the end of last year with mostly John Skelton at QB is a downright miracle.

Not singling you out personally, Mitch, we always just climb all over the coaches and tend to forget the possibility that maybe the players we have just aren't very good. I'm not confident a single coach in the league could succeed with our offensive personelle.

A lot of the time coaches are only as good as their players, and that's not different with Whiz. Belichick didn't all of the sudden become a great coach, he just got a great QB. Jim Caldwell didn't go from a great coach to a crappy coach overnight, he just lost Peyton Manning. Mike Shanahan didn't go from being a great coach, to a bad coach, and then all of the sudden figure it out again, he just went from having John Elway, to garbage, and now to RGIII. Andy Reid didn't just forget how to coach, he just went from having solid QB play from McNabb to poor play from Vick (besides 2010).

In all honesty, I don't know how great or poor of a coach Whiz is, but if your going to give him all the blame for the failures, give him all the credit for the successes.

Maybe it's just that our players suck.

 

[cardpa]

Whiz has personally selected all of the QBs brought in over the last three years. I think it has been established that Whiz had final say on players who made the roster. Now if he didn't believe any of these guys were capable of running the offense or capable of playing at an NFL level why bring them on board in the first place?

He either truly believe all of these QBs were capable or thought he was capable of coaching them up to an acceptable level neither of which happened over the last three years.

You can argue all you want that he hasn't had the talent at QB to work with when in fact he is the one who picked this crew of imitators to play the QB position so at the very least he made the decision that they were NFL level QBs. When a HC makes a statement that Lindley understands the system and is the best choice to lead the offense then you really have to question that coaches ability to know what a NFL QB is or what it takes to be a NFL QB.

IMHO you cannot just lay blame on lack of talent when the decision maker is the one who decided the talent on hand or who he personally picked was capable to play the QB position. The decision maker should catch as much blame and maybe even more since he created what or who is playing QB.

 

[az jam]

Cards need to clean house which includes Graves, Whis, OC Miller and OL coach Grimm. However, I can wait till next week.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Guess what? I have the freaking day off tomorrow. Think about it.

Haha!

 

[OmahaCardsFan]

Guess what? I have the freaking day off tomorrow. Think about it.

Nice one Mitch! That was awesome. I just don't get why some are hell-bent focusing on stuff like that. I just had to chuckle a little on that reply.

 

[TRW]

We have endured more than enough of this disgrace. Period.

Make Ray Horton the HC and have Frank Reich make the game plan and call the plays for the 49ers.

Nothing would be a sweeter redemption for this debacle of a season than to arrive at SF on a mission to make the statement that we will be back with a vengeance next year.

This is for PRIDE.

This is for HOPE.

This is for not accepting egregious failure, especially from a coaching standpoint.

I want my Cardinals flying HIGH into next season...riding on new wings and renewed commitment.

Enough is enough.

I am not sure that the situation with Whisenhunt is the same as it was with Singletary. Singletary just went completely bat dung crazy and they almost HAD to make the move when they did.

Personally, I don't think that doing what you propose would instill any PRIDE, HOPE or anything else. The season is over, the Cards have nothing to play for, not personal pride which was beaten out of them weeks ago or hope other than the hope of not getting injured.

Rhetoric and hyperbole are fodder for a FAN'S hope and pride but really aren't for players in the last game of a lost season. As putrid as this has been I don't think that firing the coaches at this late stage would set the stage for the future in any way.

Not bagging on you Mitch, appreciate your thoughts, I just can't agree with this one.

 

[binkar]

Momentum is a mirage. We rode the momentum of a four gaming winning streak into a nine game losing streak.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You know what? Now that you mention it, it would make me feel better to go into SF on a mission instead of on whatever pathetic excuse this is for coaching.

I want a gargantuan effort versus SF.

I want the players to know the organization is going to lead them in the right direction...

Not a week from now...

Not two weeks from now...

Not one year from now....

Not another day longer...

Not another minute longer...

Here Here!

 

[Mitch]

I am not sure that the situation with Whisenhunt is the same as it was with Singletary. Singletary just went completely bat dung crazy and they almost HAD to make the move when they did.

Personally, I don't think that doing what you propose would instill any PRIDE, HOPE or anything else. The season is over, the Cards have nothing to play for, not personal pride which was beaten out of them weeks ago or hope other than the hope of not getting injured.

Rhetoric and hyperbole are fodder for a FAN'S hope and pride but really aren't for players in the last game of a lost season. As putrid as this has been I don't think that firing the coaches at this late stage would set the stage for the future in any way.

Not bagging on you Mitch, appreciate your thoughts, I just can't agree with this one.

Believe me, I understand what you are saying---BUT!

First of all---if knocking the 49ers out as NFC West Champions is not something to play for, then I don't know what is...especially in front of their home fans who will be thinking as Alex Smith did two years ago when he said, "All you have to do is get on top of the Cardinals and they will fold up like tents."

As someone who coached football for over two decades---the psychology of the game is so important---

In this scenario---the best thing a coach could possibly do is talk this game up as their one playoff game---in preparation for being in the playoffs next year....but also for finishing the season off on the right note.

Two years ago, even though it was a meaningless game for both teams and the temptation was to lose to get the higher draft pick---I think that game did quite a bit for the 49ers---they really bonded under Jim Tomsula that day, and Alex Smith had one of his best games...which set a tone for himself the following year.

They created their own little buzz---

And then look what happened---they go 13-3 the next year and are a play or two away from making the Super Bowl.

Picking lower than the Cardinals, they still were able to draft---you guess it--OLB Aldon Smith. Not too shabby, huh?

Sure they could have had Patrick Peterson---but would that have made them as good or better without Aldon Smith?

Smith has been so valuable to their success.

Winning---especially when just character and pride are on the line---can go a very very long way...and can set the best of precedents.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The Cardinal players and the Niner players do not like each other. This game is going to be dangerous for all those involved and I do not see this team giving up one bit. If I was the Niners, the Cardinals would be the last team I would want to play in the final game with the playoffs on the horizon. Playing a team who has had a bad season, does not like you to begin with, has only this game to play for for the rest of the season, is going to result in a very hard hitting game where injuries could occur from the physicality of the game and not because the Cards play dirty. The defense is the hammer and not the anvil when it comes to hitting and the Cards strength is the hammer part. Something to note, the offense has never given up...but unlike the defense, they just are not very good