First Cuts

[phillycard]

You guys once again amaze me. Why would we cut Bryant Johnson? He played very well as our 3rd wide receiver. He's not making a ton of money and he was a good option when we went deep. I think you guys are just bitter that he drops some balls. It's unfortunate, but he gives us a very good third option that makes it hard for defenders to double boldin and fitz.

I don't know about VERY WELL Heavy, The drops were just inexcusable. The KC one cost us the game, no? While not the worst receiver possible. I like the potential of McCoy or Spurlock next year.

 

[Zeno]

You insist that Bryant Johnson isn't "explosive" enough as a 3rd WR, but he was 3rd in the NFL in YPC (Holmes was 10th). I'm just not sure where you're getting your information from, because it doesn't seem to have a lot of basis in reality.

.

How is Johnson's YAC? I don't seem to recall him catching the ball and out running anyone to the endzone this season.

Johnson may be a better receiver than a lot of #3--I already conceded that BUT he doesn't fit what this team needs as a #3--he just doesn't add enough to the offense. Thats the reason why people are saying the team needs more speed. He's more suitable as a #2 on a lot of teams not a traditional #3 WR.

 

[D-Dogg]

How is Johnson's YAC?

Out of his 740 yards, 241 were YAC.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

No, I think most. He's among the top 50 or so players in the league in terms of receiving yards. Devry Henderson was the only #3 WR that I can find that had more receiving yards. Not even a guy that I like more than Bryant Johnson as a #3 (Chris Henry) has more yards than #80.

So, yeah. Statistically speaking, he is better than most. In fact, I'd challenge you to name 17 better #3 WRs in the NFL than Bryant Johnson. I think I can only manage 5 before it starts getting really hard.

1. Chris Henry
2. Bobby Engram
3. Devry Henderson
4. Issac Bruce/Kevin Curtis
5.Ernest Wilford (maybe)

I think you're really overestimating the number of above-average slot WRs in the NFL right now.

EDIT: And I'm not saying that these five guys are better than Bryant Johnson, I'm just saying that at least 1, 2, and 4 are guys that I'd probably rather have than #80.

Thanks for the 2 cents. Great points.

And I would move Devry Henderson to #1 on that list. He is VERY dangerous as a #3. So is Henry but Henderson has a better head on his shoulders.

 

[vinnymac]

players to cut

byrant johnson
lenard davis (do not resign)
shipp
arrington
huff
darling
berry
chike okefaor
oliver ross
rackers
gerald hayes( should have never gotten a contract extension. he is an average mlb.)
all the other coaches except the qb coach.

 

[Zeno]

players to cut

byrant johnson
lenard davis (do not resign)
shipp
arrington
huff
darling
berry
chike okefaor
oliver ross
rackers
gerald hayes( should have never gotten a contract extension. he is an average mlb.)
all the other coaches except the qb coach.

So you want to cut or not offer a contrct 2 of our 4 starting DL, our starting MLB and our starting LT??? I think even Graves isn't that stupid.

 

[joeshmo]

players to cut

berry
chike okefaor
rackers
gerald hayes( should have never gotten a contract extension. he is an average mlb.)

You are joking right.

As for Hayes if he is an average MLB which is hugely debateable in the first place then why cut him when he is making average MLB money.

 

[vinnymac]

okefaor didn't start producing until the end of the season. that tells me that he started to play for a job and took most of the season off.

berry, for the second season in a row, had a season ending injury. at his age he wont be the same player he was when he first came here. plus when he did play againist some of the top offensive line he was shut down. it time to get someone younger to fill that position.

if you want to except average for your starting middle linebacker then you are not thinking right. the cardinals need a mlb that can play the pass as well as the run.

rackers was money in the 2005 season. he cashed in and he was no where to be found when the cardinals needed him to win or tie a game in the closing seconds. these were 40 yard field goals i am talking about. those are suppose to be automatic for an nfl kicker.

davis. the man is destined to break the record for most false starts. that kind of inconsistant play cost the cardinals points and games. you just can't play like he has and expect to win. it is time for him to move on imo.

 

[Twist18]

okefaor didn't start producing until the end of the season. that tells me that he started to play for a job and took most of the season off.

berry, for the second season in a row, had a season ending injury. at his age he wont be the same player he was when he first came here. plus when he did play againist some of the top offensive line he was shut down. it time to get someone younger to fill that position.

if you want to except average for your starting middle linebacker then you are not thinking right. the cardinals need a mlb that can play the pass as well as the run.

rackers was money in the 2005 season. he cashed in and he was no where to be found when the cardinals needed him to win or tie a game in the closing seconds. these were 40 yard field goals i am talking about. those are suppose to be automatic for an nfl kicker.

davis. the man is destined to break the record for most false starts. that kind of inconsistant play cost the cardinals points and games. you just can't play like he has and expect to win. it is time for him to move on imo.

I think Okie is just not a LDE. Last season, his sack totals went up after moving to RDE when BB blew out his pec.

 

[Zeno]

okefaor didn't start producing until the end of the season. that tells me that he started to play for a job and took most of the season off.

berry, for the second season in a row, had a season ending injury. at his age he wont be the same player he was when he first came here. plus when he did play againist some of the top offensive line he was shut down. it time to get someone younger to fill that position.

if you want to except average for your starting middle linebacker then you are not thinking right. the cardinals need a mlb that can play the pass as well as the run.

rackers was money in the 2005 season. he cashed in and he was no where to be found when the cardinals needed him to win or tie a game in the closing seconds. these were 40 yard field goals i am talking about. those are suppose to be automatic for an nfl kicker.

davis. the man is destined to break the record for most false starts. that kind of inconsistant play cost the cardinals points and games. you just can't play like he has and expect to win. it is time for him to move on imo.

So who do you propose we replace these players with in one offseason? Your proposed cuts would have us picking in the top 3 next season.

 

[Ryanwb]

okefaor didn't start producing until the end of the season. that tells me that he started to play for a job and took most of the season off.

He took Berry's position on the line which is an easier attack point for a pass rusher because you aren't facing a constant double team

berry, for the second season in a row, had a season ending injury. at his age he wont be the same player he was when he first came here. plus when he did play againist some of the top offensive line he was shut down. it time to get someone younger to fill that position.

Yep, great pass rushers just grow on trees, we need to harvest one right now

 

[vinnymac]

So who do you propose we replace these players with in one offseason? Your proposed cuts would have us picking in the top 3 next season.

the people i purpose to cut has the cardinals picking in the top ten since they been here. so it is time to try something different. the people i purposed to cut has been inconsistant in their play. hopefully the cardinals can find some players that play more consistant than what they have been doing. so i dont' think letting these players go are going to hurt the cardinals any.

 

[Zeno]

so i dont' think letting these players go are going to hurt the cardinals any.

And you'd be wrong.

 

[vinnymac]

And you'd be wrong.

well tell me great one, how am i wrong. you didn't disagree with any thing i said on my second post of this thread.

 

[Zeno]

well tell me great one, how am i wrong. you didn't disagree with any thing i said on my second post of this thread.

Using your line of thinking--since we haven't been productive with any of the players on the team we might as well cut EVERYONE because not single member of the team has done what it takes to get this team to winning.

Cutting Berry, Okeafor, Hayes, Rackers, Arrington, Johnson, Davis etc would only put this team even further away from being a winner. We can replace 1 or 2 this season but to get rid of them all in one offseason is almost begging for the first pick in the draft in 08.

 

[joeshmo]

okefaor didn't start producing until the end of the season. that tells me that he started to play for a job and took most of the season off.

Just to add what Ryan already stated which you aparently didnt take into account. But the fact that you think he was taking plays off or started playing for a job is laughable. The guy was working is butt of against the constant double teams which is the nature of where he lined up opposite of Berry, and the tapes prove that without question which is evident by the fact that to Okeafers side before he moved to Berrys side the YPC towards his End spot was 3.3 which is 6th among all DE's. And he still has 3 years left on his contract and a lot more bonus to count against the cap, and he is playing for a job? Yeah thats it.

berry, for the second season in a row, had a season ending injury. at his age he wont be the same player he was when he first came here. plus when he did play againist some of the top offensive line he was shut down. it time to get someone younger to fill that position.

So we are going to not just cut one DE, but 2. And then replace them with the wealth that is the FA market becuase we all know that good DE's are always switching teams, and they are everywhere in the draft. It is one thing to say we need to start to look for a replacement (heck I want to draft Gaines Adams) but to say we need to cut them is cutting your nose off to spite your face. Especially when we will have 40 Mill of cap space, in no need of more money and neither being a problem in the locker room.

if you want to except average for your starting middle linebacker then you are not thinking right. the cardinals need a mlb that can play the pass as well as the run.

First Hayes being average is still debatable no matter how many times you say it. Next that wasnt my point to begin with, telling me I expect average play from my MLB is completely trying mix up the real debate so you can try to lift up your already weak arguement. What was stated is that if you believe that Hayes is an average LB, then why cut him if he is making average LB money. There is no other reason to cut him unless he is over paid and not only have someone to replace him but have someone to be a backup. Well he isnt overpaid, we dont have anyone to take his place, and we dont have anyone to be a backup. But hey lets cut our only "average" MLB on the roster we got becuase we sure as heck need the money.

 

[joeshmo]

the people i purpose to cut has the cardinals picking in the top ten since they been here. so it is time to try something different. the people i purposed to cut has been inconsistant in their play. hopefully the cardinals can find some players that play more consistant than what they have been doing. so i dont' think letting these players go are going to hurt the cardinals any.

Well thats some great logic. Its so great lets use that same logic to cut Wilson, Boldin, Fitz, Dockett, Dansby as well. they to have been apart of a top 10 drafting team since we have been here.

Heck all of those players have been inconsistent as well. Wilson was inconsistent his first 4 years here, Boldin drops more then his fair share of balls as did fitz, Dockett has the poster child for inconsistent play, Dansby cant last a whole season. Cut them all.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I think these guys are not Cardinals next season, either cut or not resigned:
Blackstock, Darryl
Boyd, Shane
Bronson, John
Davis, Leonard
Gorin, Brandon
Griffith, Robert
Huff, Orlando
Hunter, Darrell
Liwienski, Chris
Milligan, Hanik
Navarre, John
Schable, A.J.
Shipp, Marcel
Spurlock, Micheal
Tate, Robert
Ware, Matt
Brewer, Jack
Cantu, Rolando
Darling, James
Macklin, David
Robinson, Roger
Ferri, Diamond
Keys, Isaac
Wyatt, Justin
Walters, Troy

Ross is kept because Davis leaves and we'll be weak at tackle. Wakefield stays because of his size.

 

[vinnymac]

so what y'all are saying okeafor is not good enough to play the left end position. good defensive lineman fight off the double teams and produce. which proves my point a little more. what i suggesting is changing things that don't work.
which brings me to berry. if okeafor is getting all this double team, why isn't berry picking up the slack. he was getting dominatied. maybe that had something to do with the 2005 season ending injury. i know berry gave it his all. his better years are behind him now and 2 season in a row, season ending injury. he won't be as good as he was in 2004. i understand these are peoples favorite players on this team. that doens't mean that they should be kept. that is my opinion. that is what this thread is about. this team hasn't been better with them.

joesmo,

that is your opinion.

 

[joeshmo]

so what y'all are saying okeafor is not good enough to play the left end position. good defensive lineman fight off the double teams and produce. which proves my point a little more.

It proves nothing because Okeafer did produce only allowing 3.3 YPC to his outside of the ball (6th in the league). Sacks isnt the only measuring stick of a player. Watch the games again and you will see just how good he was against the run to the outside and in your opinion he did it without even trying.

this team hasn't been better with them

It hasnt been better with Dockett, Fitz, Boldin, Wilson, or Dansby either. Heck it didnt get better with Edge either, lets cut him to. Hey lets trade them all for 53 drafts to replace them, it cant get anyworse.

 

[joeshmo]

Yep, great pass rushers just grow on trees, we need to harvest one right now

You dont harvest pass rushers. The pass rush fairy brings them to you via a stork.

And then you sacrifice your "average" MLB Aztec style to the football gods and then wait 3 years for another MLB to be placed on your doorstep.

 

[john h]

You guys once again amaze me. Why would we cut Bryant Johnson? He played very well as our 3rd wide receiver. He's not making a ton of money and he was a good option when we went deep. I think you guys are just bitter that he drops some balls. It's unfortunate, but he gives us a very good third option that makes it hard for defenders to double boldin and fitz.

Bryant Johnson IMHO is a #2 on most teams in the NFL. I sure hope we keep this guy as he gives us the best 1-2-3 WR punch in the NFL. Why anyone wants him gone is beyond me. When his contract is up he will be out of here quick to be a starter for many teams he can chose from.

 

[Duckjake]

You dont harvest pass rushers. The pass rush fairy brings them to you via a stork.

And then you sacrifice your "average" MLB Aztec style to the football gods and then wait 3 years for another MLB to be placed on your doorstep.

Actually the Seattle Seahawks and Denver Broncos sent us pass rushers.

The Cardinals did sacrifice their MLB Aztec style to the football gods after the 2003 draft brought a new one.

Didn't Green/Graves replace 9 of 11 starters on defense in only 2 seasons? 10 of 11 going into this year and 7 of 11 "starters" (in the three WR set) on offense? Only starters that were on team in 2003:Wilson on D; Boldin, BJ,Wells, and BIgg on Offense.

However I'm going to have to side with Joe and Zeno on this one because look what all that turnover brought us, another 5-11 season and a top 5 pick in the draft.

 

[Ohio Cards Fan]

I could see the Cards cutting Player to save money, but I don't get all the Player-hating on the board. Is it the facemask?

Player averaged 44.9 yards-per-punt this season, which was 6th in the NFL.

Players punts have become very returnable. Despite the long average, the trajectory is low resulting in short hang times. Player is a large part of our problem on punt coverages.

The facemask definitely doesn't help. But I think the last straw had to be that ridiculous goatee.

 

[Ohio Cards Fan]

You guys once again amaze me. Why would we cut Bryant Johnson? He played very well as our 3rd wide receiver. He's not making a ton of money and he was a good option when we went deep. I think you guys are just bitter that he drops some balls. It's unfortunate, but he gives us a very good third option that makes it hard for defenders to double boldin and fitz.

I would agree with you, but Johnson would be a waste of money for a #4 receiver when we draft Ted Ginn!!