For the 'O-Line over QB' Crowd

[MaoTosiFanClub]

2012's Seattle offensive line featured basically the same exact cast of characters as 2011 with the sole exception of a 7th round rookie right guard who is playing this year. Wide receiving core was more or less the same. Up until this year no member of this line had ever made the Pro Bowl.

In 2011 the Seahawks were 4th worst in the NFL in sacks allowed with 50 and 23rd in the NFL in YPC at 4.0 despite having Marshawn Lynch. In 2012 the Seahawks rushed for 4.8 YPC and came in 12th best in the NFL in sacks allowed with 33.

It's the QB guys. Fix that and 90% of our offensive lines problems go away.

 

[Buckybird]

2012's Seattle offensive line featured the same exact cast of characters as 2011 with the sole exception of a 7th round rookie right guard who is playing this year. Wide receiving core was more or less the same. Up until this year no member of this line had ever made the Pro Bowl.

In 2011 the Seahawks were 4th worst in the NFL in sacks allowed with 50 and 23rd in the NFL in YPC at 4.0 despite having Marshawn Lynch. In 2012 the Seahawks rushed for 4.8 YPC and came in 12th best in the NFL in sacks allowed with 33.

It's the QB guys. Fix that and 90% of our offensive lines problems go away.

QB will fix only part of our problem! Our Oline is atrocious at run blocking & about the same in pass blocking.

Btw look at where most the Hawks Oline were drafted, fairly high & considered good prospects...ours not so much!!! I'm not buying the comparison.

 

[sportznutt]

Didn't we keep the same O-Line for a couple of years before our Super Bowl run? Seems to me after a few years of being together and knowing each other, they played better. I could be mistaken.

 

[Buckybird]

Didn't we keep the same O-Line for a couple of years before our Super Bowl run? Seems to me after a few years of being together and knowing each other, they played better. I could be mistaken.

Continuity is a factor, but so is talent. Our SB was very solid & also helped by #13

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Btw look at where most the Hawks Oline were drafted, fairly high & considered good prospects...ours not so much!!! I'm not buying the comparison.

Um, the comparison is what an offense can do with the same line with a crappy QB vs a good one.

No problem on the much-heralded Seattle line...

Russel Okung - 1st round
Paul McQuistan - 6th round
Max Unger - 2nd round
TJ Sweezy - 7th round
Breno Giacomini - 5th round

How is that any different than ours?

 

[sportznutt]

These were our Super Bowl starters:

LT Mike Gandy 29 6 16
Chicago Bears / 3rd / 68th pick / 2001 LG Reggie Wells 28 5 16
Arizona Cardinals / 6th / 177th pick / 2003 C Lyle Sendlein 24 1 16

RG Deuce Lutui 25 2 16
Arizona Cardinals / 2nd / 41st pick / 2006 RT Levi Brown 24 1 16 2 fumbles recovered Arizona Cardinals / 1st / 5th pick / 2007

from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2008_roster.htm

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

They were just saying that in 2010 when Shanahan went to Washington and Carrol went to Seattle the first players that each team drafted was a LT. Both of those players are in the pro-bowl this year and both of those teams were in the playoffs with a chance to win today.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Continuity is a factor, but so is talent. Our SB was very solid & also helped by #13

Which is ironic because our offensive line was about the same in 2010 as it was in 2009 and yet our offense as a whole went to shiit and we allowed almost double the sacks.

It's the quarterback.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

They were just saying that in 2010 when Shanahan went to Washington and Carrol went to Seattle the first players that each team drafted was a LT. Both of those players are in the pro-bowl this year and both of those teams were in the playoffs with a chance to win today.

And both of those teams sucked up until this year.

Which begs the question: What changed with both of those franchises since then?

It's an easy one. I know you know it.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Which is ironic because our offensive line was about the same in 2010 as it was in 2009 and yet our offense as a whole went to shiit and we allowed almost double the sacks.

It's the quarterback.

When you have an Elite QB such as Warner you can get away with poor Oline play, but when you only have a serviceable to good starter than you need a solid Oline to be successful. For instance Andy Dalton who is a good QB wouldn't do very well with a poor Oline, but guys like Brady, Peyton and Rodgers can make it work because teams are wary about blitzing them.

 

[Duckjake]

Russ Grimm isn't the Seahawks offensive line coach.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And both of those teams sucked up until this year.

Which begs the question: What changed with both of those franchises since then?

It's an easy one. I know you know it.

My point is that it points to a winning philosophy, you build your team starting with the Oline and you start with the LT if you don't already have one. Then when you bring in a rookie QB who is still trying to get used to the speed of the NFL they can still have some success. Do you think that either RG3 or Wilson would have been successful without a good Oline taking pressure off of them?

 

[TJ]

1) regardless of what your opinion is; the line needs help. And a lot of it. When defenses get 7 sacks in one game without blitzing (Minnesota), there are personnel and/or coaching issues. That's just one example from a litany of line errors.

2) this QB class is garbage and the free agent market isn't any better. The savior is not there in 2013.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[desertdawg]

Russ Grimm isn't the Seahawks offensive line coach.

That would be really cool though.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Russ Grimm isn't the Seahawks offensive line coach.

You say this, but I wouldn't be shocked if the next time he gets a OLC job his line looks good. Not saying he is a good line coach, but I don't think the system helped either. And despite what Whiz likes to say no the system doesn't work.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

My point is that it points to a winning philosophy, you build your team starting with the Oline and you start with the LT if you don't already have one. Then when you bring in a rookie QB who is still trying to get used to the speed of the NFL they can still have some success. Do you think that either RG3 or Wilson would have been successful without a good Oline taking pressure off of them?

The point is that the consensus was that those o-lines were considered terrible before RG3 and Wilson got there. Feel free to poke around the internet for the countless 'Russel Okung sucks' and 'Trent Williams is a bust' threads on Skin and Seahawk boards.

It's the quarterback.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Um, the comparison is what an offense can do with the same line with a crappy QB vs a good one.

No problem on the much-heralded Seattle line...

Russel Okung - 1st round
Paul McQuistan - 6th round
Max Unger - 2nd round
TJ Sweezy - 7th round
Breno Giacomini - 5th round

How is that any different than ours?

Soooo..... Russell Okung going from an oft-injured under performing first rounder to an All-Pro isn't an upgrade to you?

Where is John Moffit's name?

 

[WarnerHOF]

You say this, but I wouldn't be shocked if the next time he gets a OLC job his line looks good. Not saying he is a good line coach, but I don't think the system helped either. And despite what Whiz likes to say no the system doesn't work.

if you give him 5 hall of famers to work with, he might just look good

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Soooo..... Russell Okung going from an oft-injured under performing first rounder to an All-Pro isn't an upgrade to you?

Where is John Moffit's name?

Moffit was there in 2011 as well when the Seahawks line couldn't protect or open up holes.

It's the quarterback.

 

[sportznutt]

Perhaps if we can't get a QB that can change the franchise for years to come, maybe we should develop the line now and make that game changing QB even better when he does arrive?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The point is that the consensus was that those o-lines were considered terrible before RG3 and Wilson got there. Feel free to poke around the internet for the countless 'Russel Okung sucks' and 'Trent Williams is a bust' threads on Skin and Seahawk boards.

It's the quarterback.

I'm not saying that a bad QB can't make a good Oline look bad, but that a good Oline can make a decent QB look good or can help a young QB find success early on. IMO the only QBs in the league that are truly good enough to make a bad Oline look good are Rodgers, Brady, Peyton and maybe Rothlisberger and Brees. These guys are all well known for destroying teams that blitz and thus usually get more time to throw because of it.

 

[slanidrac16]

It was mentioned during the Seahawk/Redskin game that Pete Carroll saw what the Redskins were doing with RG3 and started adapting some of the same things for Wilson. Wha La! Wilson started to excel.

What a concept! Adapting to your players talent and ability. Who would have ever thunk it?

It is the QB......and the line......AND the coaching.

 

[Duckjake]

Moffit was there in 2011 as well when the Seahawks line couldn't protect or open up holes.

It's the quarterback.

Josh Freeman's sack % was 4.5%. Phillip Rivers was 5.45% So does that mean Josh Freeman is a better QB than Phillip Rivers?

Seriously though: Of course the QB plays a large role in the # of sacks but it has no bearing on how talented the QB is. Kolb's sack % was 12.9. Skelton andLindley 6.9 and 6.6. Not too many people saying Skelton and Lindley are twice as good as Kolb. Running the football? The Cards yards per carry was better in 2010 with Anderson and Hall than in 2008 or 2009 with Kurt Warner.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Perhaps if we can't get a QB that can change the franchise for years to come, maybe we should develop the line now and make that game changing QB even better when he does arrive?

Get the one QB and win regardless of the line.

Or get the five good offensive line and go 5-11 behind terrible QB's praying we don't draft the next Leinart.

Your call.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Moffit was there in 2011 as well when the Seahawks line couldn't protect or open up holes.

It's the quarterback.

Lynch in 2011: 1204 yards - 12 TD's - 4.2ypc.

2011 Sacks allowed: Cards - 54. 31st in the league. Hags - 50.
2012 Sacks Allowed: Cards - 58. Last in league. Hags - 33.

Me thinks Tom Cable is doing a very good job.

Trust me.... Kolb would be much better if we could get out of the cellar when it comes to pass protection. And to think that when Batiste was benched we got markedly better is even more of an indictment of Grimm & our O'line.

I seriously question how you can even make the argument.