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Chris_Sanders

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Hey Eric I won the bet, but it was a hollow victory.

I honestly thought we were going to win :pullhair:

But you were right, D'Antoni ran this team into the ground tonight. I am really concerned about our Nash, Marion, and Bell all playing at least 45 minutes.

D'Antoni seriously couldn't find 15 minutes for Rose?
 

O

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Hey Eric I won the bet, but it was a hollow victory.

I honestly thought we were going to win :pullhair:

But you were right, D'Antoni ran this team into the ground tonight. I am really concerned about our Nash, Marion, and Bell all playing at least 45 minutes.

D'Antoni seriously couldn't find 15 minutes for Rose?

I thought Burke should have had minutes too.














Not too many but more.
 

Joe Mama

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Burke was a disaster out there in just a few minutes he played. Rose should have seen some time. I also thought it was a mistake to go small in the last couple minutes. He played Kurt Thomas the entire game and seem except those last couple minutes.

How many of you felt, like me, all throughout the game that they would end up losing a close one?

Joe
 
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Chris_Sanders

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My boss bet a few hundred on the Suns +4 this morning. I almost joined in but I thought if we were going to lose, it would be big.

It's uncanny how he gets every game right. I bet he was jumping up and down when they let Bell score.
 

elindholm

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Hey Eric I won the bet, but it was a hollow victory.

I honestly thought we were going to win :pullhair:

But you were right, D'Antoni ran this team into the ground tonight. I am really concerned about our Nash, Marion, and Bell all playing at least 45 minutes.

D'Antoni seriously couldn't find 15 minutes for Rose?

Yeah, they came closer than I thought, I guess. But to be honest I'm not really sure they came all that close. The Spurs stayed within striking distance and, even though they were horribly flustered in the first half, always had their eye on the finish line. I usually ride the emotional swings of a Suns game pretty hard, but I never really believed they could pull this one off. Everything was just stacked too heavily against them. It was like watching a movie where you know all the way through that the hero falls short at the end.

I'm not worried about Marion or Bell, because they should be able to go 48 and come back after a short travel day. But Nash was badly out of gas at the end -- you could tell by how severely he was leaning into his three-point attempts -- and Thomas can't keep this up for much longer.

My biggest concern is the lack of preparation time. San Antonio didn't really have to prepare for this game, and in fact in the first half it was clear that they hadn't. But the Suns completely overhauled their approach to gamble on a miracle, and now that it hasn't worked, they somehow have to re-orient themselves in very little time.

Like I said, I'm still hopeful for Game 6, but the Suns would have been better off had they rested tonight.
 

Cheesebeef

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Burke was a disaster out there in just a few minutes he played. Rose should have seen some time. I also thought it was a mistake to go small in the last couple minutes. He played Kurt Thomas the entire game and seem except those last couple minutes.

How many of you felt, like me, all throughout the game that they would end up losing a close one?

Joe

me. that's why I'm not even the least bit upset. too proud to see how they battled. My roomate is in a state of shock at how calm I am.
 

Hat

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Why do all the fans in the stadium cheer when Burke comes out onto the floor? Personally I shudder to think he's playing. He makes a lot of bonehead mistakes.
 

azirish

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Burke looks like a guy who doesn't play very much. His biggest problem is knowing how tight he can play on defense and he backs off too much.

The sad part is that Burke is almost certain to go somewhere else next season and could end up being a contributor. There are a lot of teams that need someone who can score inside as well as shoot the three with some degree of accuracy. Unfortunately, what the Suns need is a great rebounder/defensive player who can shoot mid range stuff (ie a quicker and more athletic KT).
 

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Yeah, Nash is what killed me. The (I hope) two biggest games of his life coming up, and D'Antoni sends him out there for the NBA equivalent of 130 pitches. :mad:

They needed to put Nash on the bench more (in both halves) and hand the ball to Rose, or Banks, or even Barbosa--like Eric, it seemed obvious to me the Suns were fighting a losing battle, so why slag Nash first and put yourself in a no-win situation at the end?




Oh, and I'm also disappointed there was no attempt at physical retaliation. "If we can't win, you're not going to win" is the best way to capture the respect of dirty teams like the Spurs and Jazz.
 

Chaplin

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There's only one guy on the squad where his minutes worried me, and that was Kurt Thomas.

Frankly, I'm tired of the bitching and moaning about Nash's minutes--he has never shown that he gets really tired the game after playing a huge amount of time. A couple years ago he showed that over the course of a long playoff run, he can run down a little, but he's never proven to get fatigued easily. The guy is in amazing shape, and I don't expect him to have any problems on Friday.

Jalen Rose and Eric Piatkowski would have played right into San Antonio's strengths. They defend the three-pointer extremely well, thus negating Pike's contributions. And Jalen's plodding style would no doubt help San Antonio rather than help us.
 

Mulli

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There's only one guy on the squad where his minutes worried me, and that was Kurt Thomas.

Frankly, I'm tired of the bitching and moaning about Nash's minutes--he has never shown that he gets really tired the game after playing a huge amount of time. A couple years ago he showed that over the course of a long playoff run, he can run down a little, but he's never proven to get fatigued easily. The guy is in amazing shape, and I don't expect him to have any problems on Friday.

Nash shooting one on one over Duncan amazes me.
 

SO91

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I'm sorry maybe I'm not a great basketball mind like many here, but when exactly was it painfully obvious the suns were fighting a losing battle? When they were up 15? 11? or tied with a minute to go?
 

CardShark

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It just shows that after the 8 man rotation, everyone else is a benchwarmer. Nash had to play more because Barbosa wasn't playing well and was in foul trouble.
 

Arctic

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Nash was definitely out of gas, but he wasn't leaning forward on his threes due to fatigue. He was trying to draw fouls, and wisely so. However, when you're more concerned about drawing the fouls than making the three, it obviously alters your shot. They just wouldn't fall down the stretch.
 

Taco

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But you were right, D'Antoni ran this team into the ground tonight. I am really concerned about our Nash, Marion, and Bell all playing at least 45 minutes.

D'Antoni seriously couldn't find 15 minutes for Rose?

Has Rose played at all in the playoffs?
 

elindholm

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I'm sorry maybe I'm not a great basketball mind like many here, but when exactly was it painfully obvious the suns were fighting a losing battle? When they were up 15? 11? or tied with a minute to go?

When the Spurs cut it from 16 to 11 right before halftime, if it wasn't clear before then. From that point forward, they steadily outscored the Suns every step of the way. Phoenix won only one quarter last night (the first), so basically all the Spurs had to do was pace themselves to be able to overcome the handicap in time. They're experienced enough to do that with ease, particularly when they have a vastly better roster available for the game in question.
 

SO91

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I understand what you're saying, but they've been doing that for a long time, and they've done it to us when we've had a full team. Have we been fighting a losing battle since game 1? I just can't accept the belief that it was obvious this team was going to lose last night, when they were tied with a minute to go.
 

Gaddabout

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When the Spurs cut it from 16 to 11 right before halftime, if it wasn't clear before then. From that point forward, they steadily outscored the Suns every step of the way. Phoenix won only one quarter last night (the first), so basically all the Spurs had to do was pace themselves to be able to overcome the handicap in time. They're experienced enough to do that with ease, particularly when they have a vastly better roster available for the game in question.

The Spurs are pretty famous for giving up early leads. But they never panic. They know they're going to get consistent production from Duncan and limit what the opponent can do on offense. They know in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter it will be close because they'll play to their pace and it will come down to one shot.

You could see that from about midway through the second quarter on. They'd made their adjustments and weren't trying to race to the lead. But then, as I said on another board before the game started, the Suns' emotion was probably good for about 1.5 quarters of inspired basketball before they run out of gas ... then it's just another game of matchups, in which the Spurs had in spades last night.
 

nashman

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you do realize they are a much older team and their 5 guys all played more than 20 minutes in the second half right! If we are tired they will be more tired as their legs our older than ours!
 

TucsonDevil

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I'm sorry maybe I'm not a great basketball mind like many here, but when exactly was it painfully obvious the suns were fighting a losing battle? When they were up 15? 11? or tied with a minute to go?

I shouldn't be mistaken for one with a great basketball mind... but here is the answer.

Without Amare and Boris, it was clear that we would have to run too much (fast break, scoring within 7 seconds) and/or work too hard for shots (screens, Pick and pops, alley-oops, designed plays). This type of pace cannot be kept up for 48 min by a 6 man rotation; this type of pace takes 8-10 man rotation. Think about it... when you play at the YMCA, isn't it nice to walk the ball up the court every once in awhile and throw it to the big guy in the low block to score? That takes so much pressure off of the perimeter guys...

The Phoenix Suns employ a quasi 'run as hard as you can for each shot' scheme as stated above (proportionately more than any team in the league, sans Golden State), but they also utilize a very aggressive pick& roll scheme when they don't have opportunities to run and/or are too tired to run. Amare is the best in the league as a finisher for P&R (IMO). In addition to P&R, there are times that Nash will just run the baseline and look to find Amare threw the legs of opponents for finishes in the lane. Diaw knows how to, and effectively, run this system so Nash can rest.

This type of flexibility in scoring options keeps defenses honest, meaning they can't run one strategy every time down the court. You could see it coming in this game... when the clock is ticking down, the Spurs were going to try high traps against Steve, so he has to get rid of the ball early (thus the high screen against Bowen). If they are successful at forcing Nash to get rid of the ball, Bowen then works hard to deny him the ball in return. Typically, if Nash does receive the ball back, Bowen has forced him high, up top, near center court. They then run the trap again. Unfortunately, this scheme is even more effective when you can't find someone (Diaw) that can run the offense on his own, or someone (Amare) that can take it strong to the basket and either score, or draw a foul. Every Offense has to have more than one scorer... or a good defense will always win (see Lakers).

Last night, LB wasn't doing squat again (also had foul trouble), Raja wasn't hitting shots consistently, KT was too tired to move anymore, and they kept Shawn away from the basket. It was clear that we either got luck with difficult shots and to stop them from scoring or we were going to lose. The Suns did the best they could for 46 min.

ANYWAYS, I'm not sure I answered your question. The main point is this - when the Spurs become aggressive in trapping and double teaming, you have to find ways to score the hard way... only Nash and Amare can do that... but Nash needs space to get his shot off - Amare doesn't. So when the Suns led by 11 points... you could see the other shoe getting ready to drop. Very difficult to avoid that reality.
 

D-Dogg

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I understand what you're saying, but they've been doing that for a long time, and they've done it to us when we've had a full team. Have we been fighting a losing battle since game 1? I just can't accept the belief that it was obvious this team was going to lose last night, when they were tied with a minute to go.

I thought they were out of it when the third quarter started and Duncan scored what, 9 straight points? Prior to that he had looked like ass.

The complexion of the game changed right then and the Spurs started grinding. Combine that with Mikey D's refusal to play any of his bench and guys out there looking tired and I figured the Spurs would win it in the end.

For awhile there, I was expecting Phoenix to win though and shock the world.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I thought they were out of it when the third quarter started and Duncan scored what, 9 straight points? Prior to that he had looked like ass.

For awhile there, I was expecting Phoenix to win though and shock the world.

Again, that is exactly when I thought the Spurs would win.
 

Mulli

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Kenny Smith predicted at halftime that if Duncan scored on the first four possessions of the second half, the Spurs would win. He was pretty close to spot on.
 

az1965

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Ok, I will say this, the 3 minutes Burke played were horrible. I still vividly remember the offensive rebound going over his head to Oberto or Duncan who he as able successfully box out but did not even make an inch of an attempt to jump at the ball. That really pissed me off and wanted him to be pulled out and surely he was right after that.

However, this is my pet peeve with D'Antoni despite of all the good he has done with this team last 3 seasons. I mean, seriously, he couldn't find a single person on the bench to give the starters 3-4 min of additional rest a piece???? Rose couldn't have sucked much worse than how Barbosa was the entire game? Banks couldn't have given 3 minutes when we were up by 14 or so??
 

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