Free Agency 2018

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just a theoretical question. Not making any proposal. If LeBron and CP3 came to the Suns this summer (Warren, Chriss, Chandler, and Dudley traded elsewhere), is that a team that could compete at the highest level now?

CP3, Knight
Booker, Daniels
JJ, Bridges
LeBron, Bender
Ayton, Williams (?)

Again, not trying to suggest this as some sort of reality. I am just trying to gauge how far away we really are from competing. It seems to me that roster should be able to make some waves, especially if you could sign some quality vet free agents on minimum deals to fill out the roster.

Again please. I am not suggesting it, I am just looking at what might be necessary for us to do to compete in the future.

I believe yes. Our Young’s are not proven under fire (aka playoffs - or for Ayton and Bridges even nba), but they are extremely talented - so much so that believe cp3 and Lebron could lead them to the promised land.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Yeah no doubt it’s a tough horizon. I think I’d gamble in van vleet. Good numbers in limited role. Was a winner in college. I think you just have to be absolutely certain the contract is reasonable. Mcds been pretty good with getting reasonable contracts in the past.

The advantage the Suns have is that they are one of a select few teams where the starting point guard spot is genuinely up for grabs (Magic, Knicks...don't see another one at the moment if Murray is the Nuggets' point guard). That's got to be appealing for a guy like VanVleet looking to elevate his career. When you also consider the talent in Phoenix, it's a pretty ideal situation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The advantage the Suns have is that they are one of a select few teams where the starting point guard spot is genuinely up for grabs (Magic, Knicks...don't see another one at the moment if Murray is the Nuggets' point guard). That's got to be appealing for a guy like VanVleet looking to elevate his career. When you also consider the talent in Phoenix, it's a pretty ideal situation.

True. There’s opportunity AND money AND talent.

What about yogi Ferrell or shabazz Napier?

 

[Errntknght]

The advantage the Suns have is that they are one of a select few teams where the starting point guard spot is genuinely up for grabs (Magic, Knicks...don't see another one at the moment if Murray is the Nuggets' point guard). That's got to be appealing for a guy like VanVleet looking to elevate his career. When you also consider the talent in Phoenix, it's a pretty ideal situation.

I imagine VV has been talked about enough that McD is aware of him as an option. We might talk to Toronto to see if they are interested in a sign and trade - they'd probably like TJ if they sould handle his contract. Rather than just make him an offer and have them match it or, more likely, someone else tops our offer. If Phoenix appeals to him as Pickles
suggested we might get him on a reasonable contract taking this approach. Maybe exactly as much as TJ's contract. Or they might make a counter offer of Delon Wright for a draft
pick, which helps them a bit in keeping VanVleet.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

True. There’s opportunity AND money AND talent.

What about yogi Ferrell or shabazz Napier?

Napier is a solid back-up plan. I'm a little concerned he got worse as the season went on, but he might be a guy who thrives with a bigger opportunity.

Ferrell has some upside too. I wouldn't be excited about either, but either might make sense as opposed to going with the guys who we've already seen be mediocre.

 

[Errntknght]

True. There’s opportunity AND money AND talent. What about yogi Ferrell or shabazz Napier?

Tyus Jones in not our of the question... he'll be an RFA next year and thanks to Wiggins overly generous contract they have to worry about losing him for nothing. Trading them Ulis and Milwaukee's pick might appeal to them. Jones is really the best of the young PGs as I've detailed already a couple of times.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've done some reading recently and they mentioned next season will be better for the free agency maket for the Suns. We have Chandler and Dudley coming off the books and Knight will be in the last year of his contract (which could be useful). Plus there will be numerous players on the market.

I know McD wants to dabble in free agency but like you I don't want him blowing money for the sake of blowing it. I'd rather we wait until next season unless it's some 'no brainer' move.

We agree on this. I don't think McDonough is locked into free agency per se. I see it more as he is willing to spend to add the right players via trade or free agency. Whereas before, he was all about adding assets to the team that freed CAP space going forward or were bargains. Now that the Suns have switched to win now mode, he is willing to go after the better players.

 

[Mainstreet]

True. There’s opportunity AND money AND talent.

What about yogi Ferrell or shabazz Napier?

Napier does not get a lot of assists. Ferrell might be the better choice but the Mavericks are in position to re-sign him as well.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

That's my recollection as well. He was actually the ROY, one of four rookies to ever average 20, 5, and 5. The other three? Jordan, LeBron, and the Big O.

His biggest issues have been injuries (and that's been a big one), outside shooting, and a scoring-first mentality. He's improved the outside shooting by a mile. Not sure on his ability to involve teammates. If that were still a big issue, we should probably stay away. I just really haven't watched him enough recently to know.

Also, I have no evidence to refute Phrazbit's assertion that he's bad on defense.

Just say Noooooooo to Tyreke, Tyreke is just as bad as Knight with his score first mentality. I live in Sac area so saw a ton of him. He constantly directs Cousins out of the paint so he could drive and it would drive him crazy. Between Knight and Evans you would have a pair of PGs that had very low Bball IQs that force the ball and stagnant the offense by dribbling and trying to Iso to much. It would hinder Ayton, I can't wait for the Suns to get rid of Knight.In case your forgot Knight has the worst efficiency rating in the NBA, don't combine that with Tyreke's force the ball, score first mentality.

Here's an article on how terrible Knight is

https://94feetreport.com/the-demise-of-brandon-knight-8d8878b2379a

 

[Mainstreet]

Just a theoretical question. Not making any proposal. If LeBron and CP3 came to the Suns this summer (Warren, Chriss, Chandler, and Dudley traded elsewhere), is that a team that could compete at the highest level now?

CP3, Knight
Booker, Daniels
JJ, Bridges
LeBron, Bender
Ayton, Williams (?)

Again, not trying to suggest this as some sort of reality. I am just trying to gauge how far away we really are from competing. It seems to me that roster should be able to make some waves, especially if you could sign some quality vet free agents on minimum deals to fill out the roster.

Again please. I am not suggesting it, I am just looking at what might be necessary for us to do to compete in the future.

This is a much better team than Lebron had around him last season so yes. However, I think the chances of this happening are very remote.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Plugging in Brandon Knight is my least favorite scenario. Let's give our generational center prospect every chance to succeed, starting with a point guard who will pass to him once in awhile.

"Frenchie" is not a moniker worthy of our potential PGOF. I much prefer the nickname his teammates gave him: "Swaggy E."

Yes I will be pissed if Knight starts they need to not even play him, he sucks so bad and forces the ball always!

https://94feetreport.com/the-demise-of-brandon-knight-8d8878b2379a

 

[pokerface]

The problem with that is we won't be players because of Booker's extension. His salary will immediately fill the space that Chandler and Dudley's deals will make. So the idea of waiting isn't realistic. It's now or never, in a way. While they can push for Booker to wait to sign an extension, that's a faulty plan that may backfire and isn't worth the risk. So they need to spend their cap space this year, or make a trade to fill it, or lose it completely. I like ColdPickleNacho's plan on spending wisely but on a short term plan like Reddick signed with Philly, overpaying him for 1 year to fill the space and I believe they have some early bird rights to resign him, possibly. Regardless of that, doing a deal like that wouldn't be a bad idea.

You were the one saying to give Brandon Knight a chance at pg.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/06/24/suns-wait-2019-free-agency/


You should glance at this article before making assumptions on what is "realistic" or not. They say...



"By the time 2019 free agency rolls around, Tyson Chandler, Jared Dudley, Alan Williams, and Troy Daniels will all be off the salary books for the Phoenix Suns, due either to declining team options or expiring contracts.

Additionally, using Brandon Knight’s expiring contract at that time as trade bait paves the way for even more cap space to be opened up."

Yeah they dont seem to mention Booker's future extension but what you don't mention is future players that won't be on the books. Not only Knight will be on the last year of his contract which makes him more dealable but Chandler, Dudley, Williams, and Daniels will all be gone and I'd be surprised if 'both' Chriss and Bender are still here as well. Plus on top off all that I'd even be more surprised if Warren is still here too considering our logjam at small forward.

 

[Hoop Head]

You were the one saying to give Brandon Knight a chance at pg.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/06/24/suns-wait-2019-free-agency/


You should glance at this article before making assumptions on what is "realistic" or not. They say...



"By the time 2019 free agency rolls around, Tyson Chandler, Jared Dudley, Alan Williams, and Troy Daniels will all be off the salary books for the Phoenix Suns, due either to declining team options or expiring contracts.

Additionally, using Brandon Knight’s expiring contract at that time as trade bait paves the way for even more cap space to be opened up."

Yeah they dont seem to mention Booker's future extension but what you dont mention is future players that won't be on the books. Not only Knight will be on the last year of his contract which makes him more dealable but Chandler, Dudley, Williams, and Daniels will all be gone and I'd be surprised if 'both' Chriss and Bender are both still here as well. Plus on top off all that I'd even be surprised if Warren is still here too.

Expiring contracts don't have the value they once did. That's why there were no big trades made last season with them and we struggled to try to find a deal for Greg Monroe, even though he did bring something to the table as a player. We ended up waiving him. So thinking we can trade Knight, who has negative value right now, next summer somehow is faulty. It'd be great if Knight can be a decent player for us but that doesn't mean he'll earn trade value, he'll still be due approximately $16 million in 2019 and no team will be anxious to take that on unless we attach an asset to him. Watch this year to see how many expiring deals are dealt, Dudley and Chandler specifically, I'd be surprised if we find anyone interested in their deals. If we can't move them, we won't move Knight next summer.


So I didn't factor in 2 players that will be expiring, 1 of those is probably going to be waived this week, Williams, and the other is only due $2.5 million, which is nothing. So I don't get what the issue is. Yes, we'll lose Chandler and Dudley's salary but Booker's extension is due to pay him more than their salaries combined, so expecting them to have a big bonanza next summer isn't realistic. It's just not. If you don't factor in Booker's extension then there's no use trying to discuss the cap space we may or may not have because that will be the biggest contract on the roster, by far, and he's our centerpiece. That's like talking about our draft haul without mentioning Ayton, it's ignoring the biggest piece to the team.

 

[Folster]

Is anybody interested in bringing back Frye for some veteran leadership and locker room presence? He's old but he could be a nice addition as a stretch 4 next to Ayton for 10 or so mins a game.

If he could be brought in for a 1 year contract with a team option near the vet min, I'd be down.

 

[pokerface]

Expiring contracts don't have the value they once did. That's why there were no big trades made last season with them and we struggled to try to find a deal for Greg Monroe, even though he did bring something to the table as a player. We ended up waiving him. So thinking we can trade Knight, who has negative value right now, next summer somehow is faulty. It'd be great if Knight can be a decent player for us but that doesn't mean he'll earn trade value, he'll still be due approximately $16 million in 2019 and no team will be anxious to take that on unless we attach an asset to him. Watch this year to see how many expiring deals are dealt, Dudley and Chandler specifically, I'd be surprised if we find anyone interested in their deals. If we can't move them, we won't move Knight next summer.


So I didn't 2 players that will be expiring, 1 of those is probably going to be waived this week, Williams, and the other is only due $2.5 million, which is nothing. So I don't get what the issue is. Yes, we'll lose Chandler and Dudley's salary but Booker's extension is due to pay him more than their salaries combined, so expecting them to have a big bonanza next summer isn't realistic. It's just not. If you don't factor in Booker's extension then there's no use trying to discuss the cap space we may or may not have because that will be the biggest contract on the roster, by far, and he's our centerpiece. That's like talking about our draft haul without mentioning Ayton, it's ignoring the biggest piece to the team.

I've been editing my post because it was lengthy so you should re-read it.

Brandon in his last year could be packaged with Warren to free up room. We don't need three small forwards. Nor do we need both Chriss and Bender. We probably are going to have to choose one or the other which also could be a part of a Brandon package.

Letting this season play out will provide more clarity on who is more dealable and allow us to make a bigger move next offseason. If you can find players willing to do one year deals then fine...good luck because it's not that common...it's the exception not the rule because other teams can possibly offer multi year deals.

 

[Chaplin]

Warren isn't coveted on the market, what makes you think Brandon Knight would be a net positive addition to a package?

We are so easy to talk about trading this and that without even thinking about value around the league. Warren has very little value, and if that's the case, then Knight is one of the most negative trade pieces in the entirely league. We're not trading him unless he's paired with Booker or Ayton and we receive an albatross contract in return.

I have hopes for Knight to be a help rather than a hindrance next season, but we have to face reality--there is no situation where Knight becomes a positive trade chip right now for ANY team.

 

[Hoop Head]

Is anybody interested in bringing back Frye for some veteran leadership and locker room presence? He's old but he could be a nice addition as a stretch 4 next to Ayton for 10 or so mins a game.

If he could be brought in for a 1 year contract with a team option near the vet min, I'd be down.

I mentioned that somewhere else, no one seemed to respond. He'd be quality veteran leadership also which would allow us to trade Dudley and/or Chandler without losing much, especially Dudley. For the right price, I'm fine with it. I'd even be ok with a deal up to $5 million a season this year, with a smaller team option for year 2. Kind of front loading the deal since we have more cap space this year.

I've been editing my post because it was lengthy so you should re-read it.

Brandon in his last year could be packaged with Warren to free up room. We don't need three small forwards. Nor do we need both Chriss and Bender. We probably are going to have to choose one or the other which also could be a part of a Brandon package.

Letting this season play out will provide more clarity on who is more dealable and allow us to make a bigger move next offseason. If you can find players willing to do one year deals then fine...good luck because it's not that common...it's the exception not the rule because other teams can possibly offer multi year deals.

I read it. I'm fine with trying to deal other players but I don't think we should bypass this offseason entirely to focus on free agents next year. I don't think it's in our best interest to do that because we really need to be focused on turning things around as soon as possible. If there is a player out there that may be a target in 2019 then we should try and trade for them now. Use our cap space as a trade chip. Use our expiring deals or Warren to make it happen, if that'll be enough. I don't think we can sit back and be complacent though, hoping for the proverbial "next year", we need to ride the momentum of drafting Ayton and winning the lottery into next season and do everything we can to turn around fortunes as a franchise. It won't be easy but that's fine. It won't be any easier if we add another year of missing the playoffs to our run either.

 

[Hoop Head]

Also, Denver is signing Jokic to a max deal that is 5 years and $152 million this offseason that will take effect immediately, expect Booker's extension to be similar to that. So Dudley's $10 million, Chandler's $13 million, and Daniels $2.5 million dollar expiring deals will equal what Booker will be on the books for next offseason. All of those deals, gone. So we either try to cash them in on trades or accept that they won't be used here to free up cap space since they'll basically be cancelled out.

 

[sdscard4]

I still think they will try to get Capela. If Houston wants CP3 they just might not match. I think it's to much money for us to give him.

 

[pokerface]

I mentioned that somewhere else, no one seemed to respond. He'd be quality veteran leadership also which would allow us to trade Dudley and/or Chandler without losing much, especially Dudley. For the right price, I'm fine with it. I'd even be ok with a deal up to $5 million a season this year, with a smaller team option for year 2. Kind of front loading the deal since we have more cap space this year.




I read it. I'm fine with trying to deal other players but I don't think we should bypass this offseason entirely to focus on free agents next year. I don't think it's in our best interest to do that because we really need to be focused on turning things around as soon as possible. If there is a player out there that may be a target in 2019 then we should try and trade for them now. Use our cap space as a trade chip. Use our expiring deals or Warren to make it happen, if that'll be enough. I don't think we can sit back and be complacent though, hoping for the proverbial "next year", we need to ride the momentum of drafting Ayton and winning the lottery into next season and do everything we can to turn around fortunes as a franchise. It won't be easy but that's fine. It won't be any easier if we add another year of missing the playoffs to our run either.

My only deal is I don't want the suns to give out a multi year deal now and possibly restrict them next year of maybe getting a max player. If they can do a one year deal then fine. If they can get a player this offseason they really want for their future then good also. I just want McD to be careful this offseason. I don't want another BK situation.

 

[Hoop Head]

My only deal is I don't want the suns to give out a multi year deal now and possibly restrict them next year of maybe getting a max player. If they can do a one year deal then fine. If they can get a player this offseason they really want for their future then good also. I just want McD to be careful this offseason. I don't want another BK situation.

I can totally understand that but I think their best chance of potentially landing a quality player from next year's crop is to either trade for them now or sign some IT like deals this summer to deal later. I know the IT deal ended up blowing up for us because of our 3 headed PG mess but if they play things right, they wouldn't be signing wings since that's the position we already are stacked at so we could look for PG's, combo guards, or bigs. Sign guys who could help us to reasonable deals that can be moved later. Warren is on a contract that should be considered cap friendly to another team, of course guys like Bender and Chriss on their rookie deals are also. That gives us some options already but if we could sign 1 or 2 players to low cost deals that could help us going forward in the trade market. I think it's a possibility also, McD has negotiated some quality extensions and free agent contracts for us outside of Knight's contract. Every other deal has been pretty good, especially with younger players like IT, the Morrii, Warren, and he even got Bledsoe to sign for less than he was asking for which is unheard for a Rich Paul client.

I'm sure a discussion will happen with Booker about his extension, if he elects to put off signing it until next offseason then that's a huge risk for everyone but it could pay off in a big way because we'd potentially have max money to spend next summer before locking in Booker. So that's something to think about but in no way is it guaranteed to happen or something I think the team should push Booker to do. I fear he'd want to leave if given the opportunity so I'd rather lock him up as soon as possible and be done with it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also, Denver is signing Jokic to a max deal that is 5 years and $152 million this offseason that will take effect immediately, expect Booker's extension to be similar to that. So Dudley's $10 million, Chandler's $13 million, and Daniels $2.5 million dollar expiring deals will equal what Booker will be on the books for next offseason. All of those deals, gone. So we either try to cash them in on trades or accept that they won't be used here to free up cap space since they'll basically be cancelled out.

It's starting to make sense. So the reason the Nuggets declined the team option on Jokic is because there is an agreement on a new contract now.

If they declined his option, without a new contract in place, he would become a free agent.

 

[Mainstreet]

Some news on Marcus Smart.

I'm not liking him for the Suns because he is not a good shooter and I'm sure Danny Ainge wants too much for him. Also I do not like the idea of dealing with Ainge.

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[Chaplin]

Some news on Marcus Smart.

I'm not liking him for the Suns because he is not a good shooter and I'm sure Danny Ainge wants too much for him. Also I do not like the idea of dealing with Ainge.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

What do you mean dealing with Ainge? Unless you're talking sign and trade, we wouldn't have to "deal" with Ainge, just figure out if he will match a contract. That said, I don't want to go through the inherent problems with signing an RFA and then being tied to it for several days while business goes on around them. I remember that being the worst part of signing Eric Gordon to that contract a few years ago.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Warren isn't coveted on the market, what makes you think Brandon Knight would be a net positive addition to a package?

We are so easy to talk about trading this and that without even thinking about value around the league. Warren has very little value, and if that's the case, then Knight is one of the most negative trade pieces in the entirely league. We're not trading him unless he's paired with Booker or Ayton and we receive an albatross contract in return.

I have hopes for Knight to be a help rather than a hindrance next season, but we have to face reality--there is no situation where Knight becomes a positive trade chip right now for ANY team.

What evidence do you have that leads you to the conclusion Warren has “very little value?” We haven’t tried to trade him to my knowledge. He’s an efficient proven scorer on a reasonable contract. I don’t think he’s a high value guy, but I don’t think I’d characterize him as “very little value.”