From Jurecki - very interesting

[CardLogic]

I think Mr. Bidwill knows a lot of fans are not happy with Green's decision.

When has Bill Bidwill ever indicatated through his actions that he gives a crap about the fans happiness??? Please!

 

[azdad1978]

When has Bill Bidwill ever indicatated through his actions that he gives a crap about the fans happiness??? Please!

Who cares! I'm speculating here like everyone else.

 

[Duckjake]

Where's the fun in that?

What I find interesting is that it was Bill and not Michael or Graves. I've said all along as long as those 2 are involved so Green doesn't have total control, I'm fine. So it's a bit odd that the owner himself would step in and do something like that. I would assume this stuff was discussed before they hired Green based on his history in Minnesota.

The key is you just can't afford to cut Shelton, Pace and Bryant in one year and eat the caphit just because your coach is mad at them. You have to have some balance between coaching decisions and managing the cap.

If this is true then I'll have to take back my congratulations to the Bidwills for finally doing what many on this board and many others in the NFL football community have been saying the Cardinals need to do for years. Hire some football people, Graves and Green, to run the football end of the operation and then get out of the way.

Graves manages the cap and contracts, Denny makes the call on players and scheme, uniform colors, cheerleader outfits, free food in the loge etc. Green has to run his cuts/hires through Graves for contract and cap analysis. Other than that it's his ship. All this should have been discussed prior to the hire. But then this is the Cardinals so anything is possible.

 

[conraddobler]

Salary Cap space is a big deal these days and many owners and GMs have had to limit their coaches abilities to just cut people.

Denny Green is right in trying to forge his own team. And Bidwill is right in demanding patience with a player like LJ who has played well in the past and whose release would screw up cap space.

These coach-management head bangs occur more often than you'd expect, IMO. A deep pockets guy like Dan Snyder or George Steinbrenner just eats the coaching contract. Most other owners work things out with the coaches.

The question to me is first did any of this really happen and if it did the 2nd question is the real motivation.

You could say he was just protecting his player or this or that but if I know Bidwill and I do from years and years of this it's usually about the money. What probably happend is that he realized holy heck if he cuts LJ I have to actually cough up the 4 million right now.

The Cardinals are one of the teams that pay out bonus money over the contract. Cap is only part of the problem the other part is the real money that would be flying out the door.

The Cardinals problem is always with real money. 4 million whizzing out the door would probably be enough to send the old man into shock.

 

[Lex]

Here are a couple examples of what MJ's been up to. This all started when "media sweetheart boy" Pete Kendall was released.

Whenever they talk about the players "out" for the Cardinals, they include Pete Kendall, like he's on the stinkin PUP list or something, and continue to reference how much better off we'd be if he was still on the team.

Now he's talking about how Denny's just gonna have to coach up these first round draft picks ... they're his problem now.

I also think this "Denny's mad" at some players, so they don't get a chance thing, is poppycock.

Denny knows what football players look like, and those are the players that get to play.

 

[Duckjake]

It used to shock my old man too. But he got used to it. I just kept reminding him that $4million wasn't what it used to be.

 

[clif]

Here are a couple examples of what MJ's been up to. This all started when "media sweetheart boy" Pete Kendall was released.

Whenever they talk about the players "out" for the Cardinals, they include Pete Kendall, like he's on the stinkin PUP list or something, and continue to reference how much better off we'd be if he was still on the team.

Now he's talking about how Denny's just gonna have to coach up these first round draft picks ... they're his problem now.

I also think this "Denny's mad" at some players, so they don't get a chance thing, is poppycock.

Denny knows what football players look like, and those are the players that get to play.

MJ is full of hater-aid! For all that dont know , hater-aid is when you spout some bull about someone that you dont like whether its true or not true.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Cardinals problem is always with real money. 4 million whizzing out the door would probably be enough to send the old man into shock.

true, if they cut all these guys Bidwill will have to take a loan out.

I would suspect that one of the biggest reasons we hired Green is that he was that Bidwill was convinced that it wasn't just one bad draft after another, but that Mac and staff couldn't develop talent. So if we bring in someone who can, we can resurrect some of the guys who were making a lot of money and not doing well.

So one would assume all of that was discussed before we paid him all that money.

 

[CardLogic]

Prior to the Dave McGinnis era, Mike Jurecki was widely known as being wrong at least as often as right. Then during the McGinnis years it seemed that perhaps he did have an "inside" track with the Cardinals. Certainly, his information became more reliable!

Now, since the hiring of Denny Green, Jurecki has lost his "key to the exectutive washroom". He obviously does not have a comfortable relationship with Green.

Being labled as the Cardinals Insider, while having no real "inside" knowledge is an unenviable situation for Jurecki, and the stress is unprofessionally being reflected in his reporting.


Just my two cents!

 

[conraddobler]

If this is true then I'll have to take back my congratulations to the Bidwills for finally doing what many on this board and many others in the NFL football community have been saying the Cardinals need to do for years. Hire some football people, Graves and Green, to run the football end of the operation and then get out of the way.

Graves manages the cap and contracts, Denny makes the call on players and scheme, uniform colors, cheerleader outfits, free food in the loge etc. Green has to run his cuts/hires through Graves for contract and cap analysis. Other than that it's his ship. All this should have been discussed prior to the hire. But then this is the Cardinals so anything is possible.

The Cardinals do not have the money to operate a real NFL franchise... Repeat after me they do not have that much money.

See things like LJ staying are really what holds this team back. Now for just a minute suspend your like or dislike of the guy what Bidwill is doing if you look closely enough is crying foul at the MONEY>>>>>

The bonus comes due immediately when you cut a player like that. NO TV money to pay it right out of the old pocket and they don't have it.

Most owners do not operate this way they cut people if they feel like it and sometimes end up in cap hell. Notice over the years how many times have we been in cap hell because of who we cut?

Injuries yes cutting no because and follow this real close.... THE CAN NOT AFFORD IT>>>>

This is part of the reason why the Bidwills retain players their whole contract because it's like driving a car till it rusts out. Turning players over is expensive in real $ but paying out contracts is easier to budget for.

Now the last logical arguement against this whole line of reasoning is that Bidwill lets players play long after they might otherwise be cut and pays the salary.

Yes he does but what would it cost to replace the player? This would involve trades and trades can get expensive plus if you pickup a real cheap player to save the money it tips your hand as to how you really operate when all you have to do is trot the old slug back out there that a lot of people still love.

I was afraid this would happen and it isn't good, I cannot believe that a coach would sign on with this franchise without an iron clad idea of how much say so in cutting someone he would have.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Prior to the Dave McGinnis era, Mike Jurecki was widely known as being wrong at least as often as right. Then during the McGinnis years it seemed that perhaps he did have an "inside" tracks with the Cardinals. Certainly, his information became more reliable!

Now, since the hiring of Denny Green, Jurecki has lost his "key to the exectutive washroom". He obviously does not have a comfortable relationship with Green.

Being labled as the Cardinals Insider, while having no real "inside" knowledge is an unenviable situation for Jurecki, and the stress is unprofessionally being reflected in his reporting.


Just my two cents!

POST OF THE DAY!

I agree with that scenario much more than any others thrown out here. He is a pissed b/c he doesnt have the same access he used to.

I might alos add that it is very likely that all these 'unnamed players' he mentions or where he got a lot of his inside info may have come from Kendell. With Green here and Kendell gone he may have no greater access than your average media type.

 

[CardNots]

or was another one of the players that went to the Union. Who knows, but I really cant believe that he would have already been released that is crazy.

I wasn't aware of Shelton practicing in the tough off season workouts. Seems to me it must be something else like...


Jurecki trying to stir things up. For Jurecki to be in the know, it must be somebody telling him. Wait until Green finds out who it is. Holy crap...

 

[MadCardDisease]

The bonus comes due immediately when you cut a player like that. NO TV money to pay it right out of the old pocket and they don't have it.

I thought that the bonus money was paid up front when the player signed the contract!



That's why it's called a signing bonus. However the team has the option to spread that bonus over the life of the contract for salary cap reasons.

 

[clif]

Prior to the Dave McGinnis era, Mike Jurecki was widely known as being wrong at least as often as right. Then during the McGinnis years it seemed that perhaps he did have an "inside" track with the Cardinals. Certainly, his information became more reliable!

Now, since the hiring of Denny Green, Jurecki has lost his "key to the exectutive washroom". He obviously does not have a comfortable relationship with Green.

Being labled as the Cardinals Insider, while having no real "inside" knowledge is an unenviable situation for Jurecki, and the stress is unprofessionally being reflected in his reporting.


Just my two cents!

I agree. the guy has been spouting all kinds of bull since DG was first rumored to be interested in the job..

 

[WizardOfAz]

I thought that the bonus money was paid up front when the player signed the contract!


That's why it's called a signing bonus. However the team has the option to spread that bonus over the life of the contract for salary cap reasons.

Beat me to it....good point!

 

[conraddobler]

true, if they cut all these guys Bidwill will have to take a loan out.

I would suspect that one of the biggest reasons we hired Green is that he was that Bidwill was convinced that it wasn't just one bad draft after another, but that Mac and staff couldn't develop talent. So if we bring in someone who can, we can resurrect some of the guys who were making a lot of money and not doing well.

So one would assume all of that was discussed before we paid him all that money.

See I really think people underestimate the Bidwills, I think a lot of coaches would walk if they dug real real deep into how much control you can have.

Real deep as in put it in writing or I walk.

I bet it's happend before and we just don't hear about it.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was afraid this would happen and it isn't good, I cannot believe that a coach would sign on with this franchise without an iron clad idea of how much say so in cutting someone he would have.

Think you're nailing it with the money angle, but I also think there's an element here of disagreement over what DG was hired to do.

DG was hired, comes in and praises a lot of guys on the team, and says we're going to the playoffs, 10-6. Then he cuts Kendall, ok we know the background we can hang with it, but now apparently he wants to cut Shelton too.

at some point it becomes a "I didn't hire you to gut the team and rebuild from scratch. I hired you to take the underachievers with talent, get them to play better, and turn this team around."

If Bill really did this I suspect it's because he doesn't think we have enough good OL's on the roster to justify cutting LJ, and doesn't want to destroy the OL for DG to make a point about who's in charge.

 

[conraddobler]

I thought that the bonus money was paid up front when the player signed the contract!



That's why it's called a signing bonus. However the team has the option to spread that bonus over the life of the contract for salary cap reasons.

If you remember they even spread the bonus money out for 3rd and 4th round picks.

Most teams, MOST TEAMS pay it upfront.

The Cardinals I don't think really do. I think you get it prorated in your game check. This means cutting a guy would be a huge financial hit.

This is really the only question that needs answering.. How do the Cardinals compare to the NFL in terms of how much bonus money they truly pay out in as a real bonus and how much to they prorate.

Translation a poor team pays in installments a rich team pays it upfront. Get the answer to that question and things would be much clearer.

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought that the bonus money was paid up front when the player signed the contract!



That's why it's called a signing bonus. However the team has the option to spread that bonus over the life of the contract for salary cap reasons.

Not always. When Shelton finally signed as a rookie it was reported that his signing bonus was to be paid in 60 monthly payments. Then we were told that Jake's bonus was in 2-3 payments, and the Cards commonly break them up. This is because as Conrad says, they don't have the cash to pay it in a lump sum all the time.

Given how many players were extended last year, and with Fitz' bonus coming, I'm betting that SHelton's new deal had something similar.

If we're talking Washington or Dallas, yes the whole thing is paid up front, but Bill Bidwill doesn't have the bank to do that.

 

[ajcardfan]

I thought that the bonus money was paid up front when the player signed the contract!



That's why it's called a signing bonus. However the team has the option to spread that bonus over the life of the contract for salary cap reasons.

They also have the option of paying it out in payments instead of a lump sum. For example, Shelton's bonus on his rookie contract was divided by 80 and paid out in each game check over the five years of his deal.

Seriously.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I agree. the guy has been spouting all kinds of bull since DG was first rumored to be interested in the job..

He's closer to the organization than you are, or I am, hell, he even does a column for their website. He might not be correct, but you can't write it off just because it's negative.

 

[conraddobler]

Think you're nailing it with the money angle, but I also think there's an element here of disagreement over what DG was hired to do.

DG was hired, comes in and praises a lot of guys on the team, and says we're going to the playoffs, 10-6. Then he cuts Kendall, ok we know the background we can hang with it, but now apparently he wants to cut Shelton too.

at some point it becomes a "I didn't hire you to gut the team and rebuild from scratch. I hired you to take the underachievers with talent, get them to play better, and turn this team around."

If Bill really did this I suspect it's because he doesn't think we have enough good OL's on the roster to justify cutting LJ, and doesn't want to destroy the OL for DG to make a point about who's in charge.

That could be and to be fair Bidwill is a fair man and maybe he didn't like what Green was doing from a fairness standpoint.

You also could be dead on correct about what Green told ownership were his plans and what he then later on decided to pull a power play that ownership never signed on for.

The problem is cannot everyone see this comming? DG would be a fool to think he can out stubborn Bidwill, Mr. I can make money if no fans show up himself..

The guys picture is next to intractable in the dictionary. This could get real ugly very fast.

DG may be the man but Bidwill signs the checks and it isn't hard to figure out who's going to win this one.

 

[Shane]

He's closer to the organization than you are, or I am, hell, he even does a column for their website. He might not be correct, but you can't write it off just because it's negative.

Thank You!

If this is true I applaude Mr. Bidwill! Cutting lose your best Ol for nothing would absolutely stupid!

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I'm sure things like this happen to every team, only we'll make a 10 page thread out of it.

 

[spanky1]

Listen everyone......while Bidwill is not considered as a dot.com billionaire, he isn't exactly poor either. If anyone has looked at the Cardinal financials as provided by the NFL, Bidwill owns the team free and clear of debt. When you have an asset like this, with the revenue stream expected to increase within two years, tell me of any banker that wouldn't front you a miiilion or two when needed.