From Jurecki - very interesting

[clif]

Clif can.

He knows everything.....If you don't believe that ...just ask him.

what are you .. a comedian? So I'm supposed to agree with everything jurecki says? I say bull.

 

[Lex]

Jurecki said a "source" told him that Bidwill refused to let Denny cut LJ.

Once again, I ask how could this have happened? If Bidwill really did this, who told Jurecki?

Bidwill himself? Graves? Michael Bidwill? Denny?

Who else would be privy to this information?

The answer is ... nobody.

So if one of Jurecki's "sources" told him this story, Jurecki should have checked it out himself first. Hopefully, he'd have been smart enough to figure out it couldn't be true.

 

[Skkorpion]

It just dawned on me...........skkorp, where did Jurecki say this? You have always asked us to identify rumors as just that.........can you pls. say where this came from.

Are you having fun stirring up the hornet's nest?

On the radio this morning just after 10 AM on his From The Bleachers program on KDUS.

 

[Evil Ash]

Prior to the Dave McGinnis era, Mike Jurecki was widely known as being wrong at least as often as right. Then during the McGinnis years it seemed that perhaps he did have an "inside" track with the Cardinals. Certainly, his information became more reliable!

Now, since the hiring of Denny Green, Jurecki has lost his "key to the exectutive washroom". He obviously does not have a comfortable relationship with Green.

Being labled as the Cardinals Insider, while having no real "inside" knowledge is an unenviable situation for Jurecki, and the stress is unprofessionally being reflected in his reporting.


Just my two cents!

Bingo!

As a reporter, you are incredibly reliant on sources for inside information. There is only so much you can write or talk about based on what 1 person sees and with a title like "Cardinals insider" you are expected to find out things beyond what you see (certain players coaches like, how the players react to the new coaching, etc).

Before the Denny Green era started, MJ seemed to get a great deal of insider information (namely from Tobin's and Mac's coaching regimes probably from the same person) that was pretty reliable. Now that a new coaching regime has taken over, he's basically starting over looking for a new source to leak information. The Green coaching staff seems to keep a great deal away from the media and with having to find a new source, MJ's getting aggrivated (as those listening to him can tell).

More often than not when you don't have any inside information, you have no story.

 

[azwulf]

What I don't get, and somebody please enlighten me here, is the trade option. It seem to me that trading Kendall or Shelton is much better then getting nothing for them in return. Why would a trade, especcially for a draft pick next year be more costly. I don't get it.

Help anybody?

 

[Evil Ash]

What I don't get, and somebody please enlighten me here, is the trade option. It seem to me that trading Kendall or Shelton is much better then getting nothing for them in return. Why would a trade, especcially for a draft pick next year be more costly. I don't get it.

Help anybody?

When trading a player for a draft pick in the NFL, the signing bonus is pro-rated meaning that you will take a large cap hit for one year. When the cut a player, the cap hit of the player (including signing bonus) is spread out over the life of the contract.

Thats why you don't see trades that often anymore, the cap hit can be huge

 

[Russ Smith]

When trading a player for a draft pick in the NFL, the signing bonus is pro-rated meaning that you will take a large cap hit for one year. When the cut a player, the cap hit of the player (including signing bonus) is spread out over the life of the contract.

Thats why you don't see trades that often anymore, the cap hit can be huge

not true, when you cut a guy you eat the bonus much the way you do with a trade. it depends if it's before or after a specific date whether that cap hit is all in current year, or over 2 years, forget the exact date.

The reason you don't trade a Kendall is it takes time to do it, word gets out, and then it loses it's element of surprise. Green wanted to shake up the team with that move, if they all know Kendall's on his way out, the effect is different.

 

[azwulf]

Ok, I alway thought that the taker also takes the contract. I did not realize that the signing bonus is left out.

Thanks.

 

[Redheart]

Taking this latest "leak" with a huge grain of salt; Jeff G's comments are logic that must be given weight.

Bidwill did learn from Buddy the error of letting a HC / GM go unsupervised...

LOTS of ways of touching the untouchable LJ. ex. "how would you like a trade to ...(fill in worst-nightmare-blank)"; "you remember those incentives in you contract LJ? You ain't ever going to reach them on the bench..."; "LJ will now show us the proper tackeling dummy technique...again...again...".

Let's take a look at a possible reality:

• LJ is now at his playing weight when he came in like Shamu.

• LJ has had a perception adjustment; starting guard is better than starting bench.

• Big can now start at LT and their is no pouting on LJ's part.

• Denny Green has shown he is in control of the team; Bidwill has shown he is in control of Denny.

It appeared that Denny was moving LJ to guard (see Skorps previous post); now MJ say's it is because he HAS to. Is MJ stirring the pot or is Denny following his plan??

 

[Russ Smith]

LOTS of ways of touching the untouchable LJ. ex. "how would you like a trade to ...(fill in worst-nightmare-blank)"; "you remember those incentives in you contract LJ? You ain't ever going to reach them on the bench..."; "LJ will now show us the proper tackeling dummy technique...again...again...".

So you're saying DG is a fan of "One on One" and LJ is Robby Benson?

 

[clif]

Taking this lates "leak" with a huge grain of salt; Jeff G's comments are logic that must be given weight.

Bidwill did learn from Buddy the error of letting a HC / GM go unsupervised...

LOTS of ways of touching the untouchable LJ. ex. "how would you like a trade to ...(fill in worst-nightmare-blank)"; "you remember those incentives in you contract LJ? You ain't ever going to reach them on the bench..."; "LJ will now show us the proper tackeling dummy technique...again...again...".

Let's take a look at a possible reality:

• LJ is now at his playing weight when he came in like Shamu.

• LJ has had a perception adjustment; starting guard is better than starting bench

• Big can now start at LT and their is no pouting on LJ's part

• Denny Green has shown he is in control of the team; Bidwill has shown he is in control of Denny.

It appeared that Denny was moving LJ to guard (see Skorps previous post); now MJ say's it is because he HAS to. Is MJ stirring the pot or is Denny following his plan??

I think MJ is stirring the pot. He did not want green to be the coach and has stated it numerous times. His reports lately with respect to things of this has taken a real negative slant. No matter what happens somehow it is the coaches fault. We have Mac and he's a players coach and they dont win so we get rid of him for the exact opposite and now it is still the coaches fault that he may have been willing to cut a player that came into camp overweight. Pretty hypocritical!

 

[Redheart]

So you're saying DG is a fan of "One on One" and LJ is Robby Benson?

I was pulling for Robby in that one! Of course the coach was the classic hollywood evil-bad man. No, I don't think the analogy fits.

A coach can make your life miserable, you ever had that experience? Did you think you were "untouchable"?

Further, do you think your boss can't "touch" you now? Do you not, in fact, act in way to please your boss and try and make your work-life as pleasant and rewarding as possible? Don't feel bad, most of us mortals live in that world.

The point was Denny has plenty of ways to bring LJ to heal, and I think he has. I never believed that he really wanted to cut him, but letting LJ know that he, or anybody else on this team, is "touchable" is just what the doctor ordered for our 4-12, perennial under-acheiving, millionaire, offensive linemen.

 

[Bobcat]

Jurecki said Mr. Bill Bidwill stepped in and ordered Denny Green not to cut LJ Shelton, otherwise LJ would be gone already. Denny has been told to coach up some of the big salary guys like Pace and Shelton and Denny is not happy.

This is why this team has always been a looser...!!!!!!

Allan

 

[BACH]

Hasn't been online all day and missed this one from the start.

Could have saved a lot post in this thread.

By cutting Shelton the team WILL NOT take a cap hit!!!!!!!!

Graves used the free cap room last year to extent Shelton. That means Shelton signing bonus was turned into extra base salary LAST YEAR. That was the whole idea of extenting him!!! On paper Shelton didn't receive any signing bonus and can be cut without taking a cap hit.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

This is why this team has always been a looser...!!!!!!

Allan

I can handle being a looser...I've always been easy.

Just don't call me a loser.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Well, since there's so much speculation running around, I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I have questioned some of Jurecki's comments in the past. I also believe that he must be one of the more conscientious and dedicated media people that cover the Cards. Skkorp, Nidan, and others have often referred to how MJ is around when few others are, and is always "talking" to people...players etc. I put a lot of creedance into, and listen a lot, when they say things like that.
I would think his history here....of which Green has none, by the way, might suggest that that he may have some decent connections not only with Mac, but the Bidwills too (and I would include Graves as "one of the family"...again something I don't think you could say , for better or worse, about Green.)

I'm not saying its so, by any means, but if the Bidwills felt they needed some "leaking" to be done....Jurecki might be the best/most viable avenue.

I honestly don't think this is the type of thing Jurecki is going to just cast out there to generate reading/listening response. I think this is really playing with fire, and I would think he's cognizant of that.

If he's just blowing smoke...is his rear that could really end up getting BBQ'd.

In this case, my gut tells me...where there's smoke, there's fire.

I don't think it takes a Norman Einstein to figure out something like Denny Green pulling a power trip would come as any big surprise. I would surmise that A LOT of people probably would agree with me when I say, it wasn't a mather of WhETHER it would happpen, just WHEN.

Speaking from experience, where I can tell you that regardless of what legally may have/have not been discussed, dlineated by both parties attorneys, and in spite of all the attorney legalese attempts to cover every imagined point of opssible dispute.....it can't be done on paper....not totally.

The one thing Denny Green has established with his history, is that he puts himself "above" the owner he works for. ]
Look at what happened in Minnesota. For example, Red McCombs directing him to fire Richard Solomon, and Green thumbing his nose at it. etc, etc, etc.

For whatever real or imagined Football guru Green may deem himself, the simple fact remains....IT AIN'T HIS COMPANY.

The Bidwill family, as owners, hired him to work for THEM. Not only that, but as I pointed out on another thread a while back.....Bill Bidwill...and even Michael so far, has never been one to meddle in the day to day running of the team. He's never been an Al Davis or Jerry Jones, or Daniel Snyder.

It's one thing to turn contol over to a coach, but quite another to let them run rampant with no limitations what-so-ever on what they do either. I would be willing to bet, all things considered, that Green's being hired as a coach wasn't just some off-handed little quick meeting involving a bunch of clueless people.

I think some good analogies have been made, in that regard, ala Bill Parcell last year.

I gotta think Russ was right when he surmises to the effect that the Bidwill's most likely position was....we feel we have this team headed in the right direction, and maybe you (Green) can be the final catalyst that's needed to complete the job.

When you hand the car keys to the kid, trusting that you won't live to seriously regret it, and once he's got them, no longer listens to anything you say, cause he got what he wanted, sometimes you may be forced to put your footdown, when and if things get too far out of hand, and remind "sonny" who really pays the bills and has ultimate responsibility for life in that "house".

again, it doesn't seem to take any Norman Einstein to figure out Denny Greens seems to have been pulling a power play, in more ways than one, and maybe overstepped himself a little, and unerestimated how much he could really get away with, so soon.

Yes.....it may all be smoke.....but my gut tells me there's a fire smoldering somewhere in the neighborhood too.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hasn't been online all day and missed this one from the start.

Could have saved a lot post in this thread.

By cutting Shelton the team WILL NOT take a cap hit!!!!!!!!

Graves used the free cap room last year to extent Shelton. That means Shelton signing bonus was turned into extra base salary LAST YEAR. That was the whole idea of extenting him!!! On paper Shelton didn't receive any signing bonus and can be cut without taking a cap hit.

Source? My recollection is they did it when they did so part of the bonus hit would be on LAST year, but I don't think they can count the bonus as a salary on last year?

 

[seesred]

When Green came on board it was said that he had bonus clauses in his contract for wins. Green ain't nobodys fool. If he thought these guys could play they would be playing., I don't care who you were or what your paid or what you did last year being the best of the worst. what can you do for me today. Have you seen LJ play against the second and third teamers. Now a bad back, overwieght, not prepared, overpaid. Don't get me wrong, I think he can be under the right conditions ,that he sets, a solid lineman.

I don't believe MJ for a moment that Green was told he can't do something with a player. I believe they might have had a business meeting about LJ and they might have seen it two different ways. BUt if LJ had to go Green would make him invisable or Green would be, I believe that.

GBR
40

 

[Russ Smith]

I was pulling for Robby in that one! Of course the coach was the classic hollywood evil-bad man. No, I don't think the analogy fits.

A coach can make your life miserable, you ever had that experience? Did you think you were "untouchable"?

QUOTE]

any movie that expects me to buy Robbie Benson as a D 1 basketball player is a stretch (-:

 

[kerouac9]

Source? My recollection is they did it when they did so part of the bonus hit would be on LAST year, but I don't think they can count the bonus as a salary on last year?

What they could've done is what Minny did with Winfield's contract: the signing bonus is essentially the first-year salary. Winfield doesn't have a signing bonus to pro-rate (as I remember), he just has a massive first-year cap charge, but they had the room to handle it.

 

[Redheart]

I don't think it takes a Norman Einstein to figure out ....

Norman Einstein: Well-known football tactician and strategist of the early 1940's. Cousin to the renowned theoretical physicist Albert Einstein who once said of Norman, "What I do is childs play, Norman now, THAT guy is SMART"!

 

[kerouac9]

What they could've done is what Minny did with Winfield's contract: the signing bonus is essentially the first-year salary. Winfield doesn't have a signing bonus to pro-rate (as I remember), he just has a massive first-year cap charge, but they had the room to handle it.

Just to back this up, these are the contract details from Winfield's deal:

The Vikings' biggest salary cap hit
July 25, 2004
Pay me now ...

The largest salary cap hit in cornerback Antoine Winfield's six-year contract comes in the first year. Afterwards, his cap number is highly manageable. The deal will add $5.5 million to the Vikings' 2006 cap allotment assuming he doesn't reach his likely-to-be-earned (LTBE) incentives in 2005.

Year/base salary/bonuses/'04 cap number

• 2004/$1.6 million/$10.8 million roster/$12.4 million

• 2005/$600,000/$5.5 million LTBE/$6.1 million

• 2006/$4.7 million/N/A/$4.7 million

• 2007/$4.9 million/N/A/$4.9 million

• 2008/$5.6 million/N/A/$5.6 million

• 2009/$6.0 million/N/A/$6 million

TOTAL Six years, $34.8 million (including $600,000 in random workout bonuses).

 

[Russ Smith]

What they could've done is what Minny did with Winfield's contract: the signing bonus is essentially the first-year salary. Winfield doesn't have a signing bonus to pro-rate (as I remember), he just has a massive first-year cap charge, but they had the room to handle it.

Interesting.

I understood that LJ had a base salary the same every yearm and his caphit was the same as well. SOmeone posted the numbers recently I think.

If true that would make cutting or trading him easier and remove the financial issue.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Norman Einstein: Well-known football tactician and strategist of the early 1940's. Cousin to the renowned theoretical physicist Albert Einstein who once said of Norman, "What I do is Childs play, Norman now, that guy is smart"!

Yes...that's him...he's the one.

Very famous smart guy too, whom Joe Theisman introduced to the world.

 

[clif]

Tangodnzr,

I will have to disagree on alot of your points. (again) While I certainly dont and wont discount some of the things that Jurecki states, I believe that every thing he states can not always been taken as fact. He has done a great job reporting on the cardinals, but I feel that ever since DG came into town he keeps talking about some issues DG had in the past that have absolutely nothing to do with winning football games. I usually respect his views, but it has become apparent to me and others on this board and others that listen to his show that he is very reluctant to offer any kind of positive press about DG.

Why would the cardinals want this leaked? If anything it makes the foundation look weak after 2 preseason games. Why would you basically show your coach up by having this leaked? You know that Cards have zero credibility in the NFL as far as players go so.. bad move. If they think this will help them get free agents.. I say HA!

As for Denny Green pulling a power trip... again I say how can anyone say that LJ was actually going to get cut until the move was made.

You stated that Denny was going to pull a power trip? Potentially cutting LJ is a power trip? Man again.. if the guy wants to be on this team bad enough then he will work his tail off to do it.

Your example that Mccombs wanted Richard Solomon fired. If it was that serious then why didnt Mccombs fire him himself? Its his team right?

As for running rampant... Please, this team as sucked for too long for anyone in the organization to say anything at this point about running rampant.

Headed in the right direction? what 0-16?

Again judge him after the games count. I wont excuse anything if there is no improvement by week 16, but to say that its all about a power trip is so far fetched. Tell me if any quality coach would not have done the same thing that DG did in benching an overweight player that is supposed to be a leader and set an example for others?!?!