From Jurecki - very interesting

[Russ Smith]

Tangodnzr,


Your example that Mccombs wanted Richard Solomon fired. If it was that serious then why didnt Mccombs fire him himself? Its his team right?

he actually sort of did in a roundabout way.

McCombs wanted Green as coach, he didn't want him as GM anymore because he was screwing up the cap in his opinion. He also felt Green was going too far with respect to choices like Solomon.

Several DB's had gone to Green complaining about Solomon, didn't know his job, wasn't teaching anything, wasn't approachable. Green cut one of the players and demoted another. Naturally that sort of thing gets back to the media, and it became public knowledge. McCombs didn't like that personnel decisions were being made based on something like that, afterall the players went to DG, not the media, there should be an opportunity to do that without being "penalized."

McCombs eventually decided Solomon had to go, ordered Green to fire him, and Green responded by PROMOTING him to director of player personnel or some similar title.

When Green resigned, it was to avoid being fired at the end of the year. After DG resigned, they of course fired Solomon.

The reason they didn't just can Solomon was, reportedly McCombs initially WANTED to keep DG as coach, he just wanted to limit his authority, Green didn't like it, and it blew up.

Not saying McCombs is perfect either, but he did try to go the above board route, and it's not the first time a coach has been ordered to fire an assistant that he's loyal to.

 

[clif]

I hear ya Russ. My thing about it is people keep living in the past and keep referring to things he did in Minnesota player wise as a means to down his future with the cards. All I know for a fact is that they were winning. At this point I will accept all that he did when it relates to winning. If the cards were perennial winners and were having some bad years, then his personal track record would carry more weight as not to "dirty" the franchise, but at this point I say lets get it going. He could bring in 10 more Richard Solomons for all I care as long as we experience half the winning that Minnesota did.

By the way..(kinda off subject) but the same people that are bashing DG must be the same ones who wanted Colangelo outta here... RIDICULOUS !!

just kidding........ maybe

 

[Russ Smith]

I hear ya Russ. My thing about it is people keep living in the past and keep referring to things he did in Minnesota player wise as a means to down his future with the cards. All I know for a fact is that they were winning. At this point I will accept all that he did when it relates to winning. If the cards were perennial winners and were having some bad years, then his personal track record would carry more weight as not to "dirty" the franchise, but at this point I say lets get it going. He could bring in 10 more Richard Solomons for all I care as long as we experience half the winning that Minnesota did.

True, but you could argue the VIking secondary was a big reason they did NOT win the Superbowl under DG. So if Solomon was as bad as some players said, it's an issue.

 

[Lex]

That's not the way I remember that Solomon stuff Russ-

What I remember was, a couple DB's in Minnesota that were clubhouse lawyers, very visible in the community, and over the hill, got the heat turned up on them by one of Denny's coaches. Richard Solomon.

They got cut, then went to the local media (already Denny haters) and cried about how they'd been done wrong. The media was only too happy to run with the story. Neither player did anything in the NFL after the Vikes.

It would be like going to work for someone. That someone tells you to fix a problem. You do it, then your boss throws YOU under the bus?

Denny would have trouble getting anyone else to come to work for him then, no?

That end result could very well be what McCombs was trying to do to Denny.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's not the way I remember that Solomon stuff Russ-

What I remember was, a couple DB's in Minnesota that were clubhouse lawyers, very visible in the community, and over the hill, got the heat turned up on them by one of Denny's coaches. Richard Solomon.

They got cut, then went to the local media (already Denny haters) and cried about how they'd been done wrong. The media was only too happy to run with the story. Neither player did anything in the NFL after the Vikes.

It would be like going to work for someone. That someone tells you to fix a problem. You do it, then your boss throws YOU under the bus?

Denny would have trouble getting anyone else to come to work for him then, no?

That end result could very well be what McCombs was trying to do to Denny.

Who knows, I do know that Green was rumored to be a candidate in Washington this year until they told him he couldn't hire Solomon. The same rumor was there with New York.

I do know I've read several stories on the Solomon stuff but I forget the DB's names who were involved. Both said they went to DG to complain about Solomon, one got cut, one was benched.

But I believe most of them were in fact Minnesota media stories. I posted more than one of them when we first announced we had hired Solomon.

 

[clif]

True, but you could argue the VIking secondary was a big reason they did NOT win the Superbowl under DG. So if Solomon was as bad as some players said, it's an issue.

from what I have seen so far our dbs are not the issue so no real way to judge solomon at this point

 

[Tangodnzr]

QUOTE=clif]Tangodnzr,

I will have to disagree on alot of your points. (again) While I certainly dont and wont discount some of the things that Jurecki states, I believe that every thing he states can not always been taken as fact. He has done a great job reporting on the cardinals, but I feel that ever since DG came into town he keeps talking about some issues DG had in the past that have absolutely nothing to do with winning football games. I usually respect his views, but it has become apparent to me and others on this board and others that listen to his show that he is very reluctant to offer any kind of positive press about DG.
So far my perception is that you are a Green groupy. You show up here AFTER Green has been hired .... doing a credible VF imitation...so I'm not surprised by your comment here.

Why would the cardinals want this leaked?
again...purely supposition, but "playing the game" with you.....
maybe as an attempt at "damage control". In an attempt to rein in an over ego maniacal HC who they suddenly may fear could be "Buddy....he's baaaack"
And seems to forget who is REALLY running the show.

If anything it makes the foundation look weak after 2 preseason games.
How so???

Why would you basically show your coach up by having this leaked?
Again...maybe because the coach keeps forgetting there ARE still at least a couple of people HE's responsible to.

You know that Cards have zero credibility in the NFL as far as players go so.. bad move.
I do??? When did I learn this?

If they think this will help them get free agents.. I say HA!
.....and to that...I say: HA, HA, HA !

As for Denny Green pulling a power trip... again I say how can anyone say that LJ was actually going to get cut until the move was made.
Well, hey there. Norman, if the "rumor" is true, then maybe the Bidwills didn't want to gamble on that. After all, it is THEIR team. Denny Green should be clearing moves with them...not visa versa.

You stated that Denny was going to pull a power trip?
B]Based on a study of the man and his history...yes, most likely.[/B]
Potentially cutting LJ is a power trip?
It sure seems that way ! L J Shelton has established a history here of being a "professional" in just about every sense of the word. He's never been a mdia quote guy. Generally just did his job and kept his mouth shut. To be treated the way he has by Green, under the recent circumstances, yeah....it absolutely REEKS of power trip, for whatever reason.

Man again.. if the guy wants to be on this team bad enough then he will work his tail off to do it.
From just about everything i've heard so far, seems like once he was medcially cleared, camp started, etc, etc, he HAS been "working his tail off". Green would appear to be the one with the questionable "agenda" here.

Your example that Mccombs wanted Richard Solomon fired. If it was that serious then why didnt Mccombs fire him himself? Its his team right?
Hmm, check your history son, HE DID !!! (yeah, yeah, technically Green quiit with a "buyout" of his contract as a "plea bargain" but the reality is HE DID !

As for running rampant... Please, this team as sucked for too long for anyone in the organization to say anything at this point about running rampant.
What an over simlified, highly disingenuous, half-truth (at best).

Headed in the right direction? what 0-16?
Wow, leaps of fantasy and deperation abound to unedending heights now eh?

Again judge him after the games count. I wont excuse anything if there is no improvement by week 16,
You seem to miss the main point in all tihs...and that is....IF by week 16 it rurns out Green wasn't as clever as he thought he was, too much literally "unrepairable" damage may already have been done. The Army calls it PM (preventative maintenance).


but to say that its all about a power trip is so far fetched.
NO IT NOT! Not to any cogent person who's paid attention to the past and present and is able to see similarities. No, not far fethed at all.
Certain to be the case....well no either. But it would take an "ostrich with his head in the sand" to not be at least concerned of the very real possibility, based on history. Which seems to be the main, and final normal rallying cry for those who say...give Green a chance, especailly based on his history. It's a two way street, my friend....a two way street indeed.

Tell if any quality coach would not have done the same thing that DG did in benching an overweight player. D
Again that's part of the whole point. I don't think most quality coaches would have treated Shelton the way Green has so far, under the circumstances.

[/QUOTE]
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[BACH]

Interesting.

I understood that LJ had a base salary the same every yearm and his caphit was the same as well. SOmeone posted the numbers recently I think.

If true that would make cutting or trading him easier and remove the financial issue.

I don't think Shelton's contract details ever were released. I haven't seen them, anyway..

But the whole reason for the timing of the contract was because of this. By giving Shelton a new deal at that time, the team was able to extent him AND include last year in the deal. So instead of giving him af new 5 year deal after the season, they were on paper able to give him a new 6 year deal. So instead of giving him a signing bonus after the season, they increased his base salary last year.