Furthering The Case for Tavon Austin

Dr. Jones

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You can't look at Goodwin's stats in a vacuum football was a hobby for him his primary thing was training for the Olympics.

He has the tools to be a good football player but he's very raw.

Austin is exciting but he's much smaller than Harvin and taking another WR in the first round would just continue the issues on the OL and at other spots.

Now if we moved one of our other WR's to get another pick or something I could see then moving down and taking a flyer on Austin but I don't think Roberts has much trade value and I kind of doubt we're going to trade Floyd this early.

I think he will be the first WR below 5'10" and below 175lbs since Santana Moss to be drafted in the first round.

That's really damn small man.

Combine results:
Tavon Austin - 5'9" 174lbs
Percy Harvin - 5'11" 191lbs
LaMichael James - 5'8" 194lbs
Kendall Wright - 5'1" - 196lbs
Titus Young - 5'11" - 174lbs

In Short.... The guy is as small as Trindon Holliday, & Titus Young. Meanwhile, JJ Arrington, Jacoby Ford, & DeAngelo Williams are the Incredible Hulk in comparison (all have 30 to 40lbs on him).
 
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Mitch

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In my opinion, Tavon Austin is going to be the unanimous winner of the 2013 Offensive Rookie of the Year Award. He is a logistical and matchup nightmare for defenses.

Part of the reason why I want the Cardinals to draft him is that I worry the Rams or Seahawks will draft him, or that the 49ers trade up to draft him.

The combo of Russell Wilson and Tavon Austin would imo make Seattle the favorite to win the NFC West.

I understand the concerns about size---but, TA is so quick and smart, he doesn't take any hard shots, which is where his size and speed are actually an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

That doesn't mean he lacks toughness---he is about as mentally sharp and tough as it gets. But he's intelligent enough to protect himself, as in ducking out of bounds rather than absorb a big sideline hit.

The thing about TA is his COMBINATION of speed and quickness---it's unlike any player I've seen in all the years I have been studying college WRs. I think Todd McShay said the same thing---although he's not my favorite draft guru. But sometimes he gets it right and I think with TA he has it completely right.

I get the "oh not another WR" lament as well, however, there is no one on the roster that has the skill set that TA has---not even close. He would take so much of the attention off of Fitz when he lines up to Fitz's side. Teams feel like they can handle Roberts and Doucet in the slot---but TA would be a whole different dynamic.

Plus, he's like the queen on the chessboard---teams would have to key on where he lines up and he would be the best reverse threat we've ever had, and he can run the ball several times a game. The key is getting the ball in his hands 10-14 times a game.

I think he is more talented than Wes Welker or Percy Harvin...and he's certainly more versatile.

When I read these mock that have him going to the Rams or Seahawks, I cringe. What he would do for those offenses is open the whole thing up and make it instantly more dynamic and electric.

I also believe that this draft is deep enough at other need areas that we can come out of the first five rounds with 5 very good players:

And if we trade down a few, like to the Chargers and pick up an extra third, it would be 6 very good players, like this:

1. Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia.
2. Barrett Jones, G/C, Alabama.
3. Khaseem Green, LB, Rutgers.
3. John Simon, LB, Ohio St.
4. Mike Gilleslee, RB, Florida.
5. David Quessenberry, T/G, San Jose St.
6. Duke Williams, S, Nevada.
6. Broderick Brown, CB, Oklahoma St.
 
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WildBB

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In my opinion, Tavon Austin is going to be the unanimous winner of the 2013 Offensive Rookie of the Year Award. He is a logistical and matchup nightmare for defenses.

Part of the reason why I want the Cardinals to draft him is that I worry the Rams or Seahawks will draft him, or that the 49ers trade up to draft him.

The combo of Russell Wilson and Tavon Austin would imo make Seattle the favorite to win the NFC West.

I understand the concerns about size---but, TA is so quick and smart, he doesn't take any hard shots, which is where his size and speed are actually an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

That doesn't mean he lacks toughness---he is about as mentally sharp and tough as it gets. But he's intelligent enough to protect himself, as in ducking out of bounds rather than absorb a big sideline hit.

The thing about TA is his COMBINATION of speed and quickness---it's unlike any player I've seen in all the years I have been studying college WRs. I think Todd McShay said the same thing---although he's not my favorite draft guru. But sometimes he gets it right and I think with TA he has it completely right.

I get the "oh not another WR" lament as well, however, there is no one on the roster that has the skill set that TA has---not even close. He would take so much of the attention off of Fitz when he lines up to Fitz's side. Teams feel like they can handle Roberts and Doucet in the slot---but TA would be a whole different dynamic.

Plus, he's like the queen on the chessboard---teams would have to key on where he lines up and he would be the best reverse threat we've ever had, and he can run the ball several times a game. The key is getting the ball in his hands 10-14 times a game.

I think he is more talented than Wes Welker or Percy Harvin...and he's certainly more versatile.

When I read these mock that have him going to the Rams or Seahawks, I cringe. What he would do for those offenses is open the whole thing up and make it instantly more dynamic and electric.

I also believe that this draft is deep enough at other need areas that we can come out of the first five rounds with 5 very good players:

And if we trade down a few, like to the Chargers and pick up an extra third, it would be 6 very good players, like this:

1. Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia.
2. Barrett Jones, G/C, Alabama.
3. Khaseem Green, LB, Rutgers.
3. John Simon, LB, Ohio St.
4. Mike Gilleslee, RB, Florida.
5. David Quessenberry, T/G, San Jose St.
6. Duke Williams, S, Nevada.
6. Broderick Brown, CB, Oklahoma St.

Mitch can we just concede Austin to whoever drafts him?!

What recievers would work for you at the 3rd Rd. and 4th Rd. especially.\\

I like the Kansas St. kid Chris Harper or Dennard Robinson in the 4th Rds. Either of those would improve us.

If we go 3rd. Rd. which I can't see happening I know they really like Marcus Wheaton out of Oregon St. or the Patten kid out of Louisiana Tech.
 

kerouac9

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Rookie of the Year candidacy is a terrible reason to draft a player. This class is talent-poor at the skill positions. The first offensive skill position player taken will be the immediate front-runner for that award, and the past winners are quickly forgotten.

Same with judging players only on highlight reels. Coaches and scouts don't do this, and neither should you. Judge a player on the totality of his play--best and worst and middle--not just his best ones.

The Oklahoma tape on Tayvon Austin tells me that the Sooners don't know how to play defense--huge holes in the running game, giant gaps in the secondary; it doesn't tell me much about how Austin's game is going to translate to the pros.
 
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Mitch

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Mitch can we just concede Austin to whoever drafts him?!

What recievers would work for you at the 3rd Rd. and 4th Rd. especially.\\

I like the Kansas St. kid Chris Harper or Dennard Robinson in the 4th Rds. Either of those would improve us.

If we go 3rd. Rd. which I can't see happening I know they really like Marcus Wheaton out of Oregon St. or the Patten kid out of Louisiana Tech.

I sincerely hope we don't pass on TA.

if we do it's for Warmack the most dominating player in the draft, Jones who is lightning in a bottle on defense, or Ansah who is the most physically gifted player in the class.

Otherwise, TA, the most electric skill player in the draft who takes the pressure off of everyone else in the offense and all on the defense to try to contend with his elite speed and quickness, would be a game changing pick.

I love Quinton Patton, WildBB---great route runner and hands, and it meant a great deal, imo, that Jonathan Banks, one of the top SEC CBs in this draft, said recently that in all his years at Mississippi St. the most difficult assignment he had was trying to cover Quinton Patton. The guy has an uncanny knack for getting open and he has great hands. But, imo, he will be off the board early in round 2 and possible late in round one. I could see the 49ers taking him.

The three WRs I've been watching recently that I like a lot are Ryan Swope (6-0, 206, Texas A&M), Kenny Stills (6-0, 190, Oklahoma) and Josh Boyce (6-0, 203, TCU)...al of whom ran great times at the combine and have been very productive. If one of these three is on the board at #69---I'd love to take one of them, if we don't take TA that is.
 

Dr. Jones

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Part of the reason why I want the Cardinals to draft him is that I worry the Rams or Seahawks will draft him, or that the 49ers trade up to draft him.

The combo of Russell Wilson and Tavon Austin would imo make Seattle the favorite to win the NFC West.

I get it Mitch..... My issue is two-fold.

1. Why would we ever draft a player using the reason: I don't want my division opponents to have him. When has that ever worked?

2. What makes you think we are even close to winning this division? We are probably 5 to 6 games worse than the Niners and 3 to 4 games worse than the Seahawks.

Other teams have shown us the blueprint. O-Line, Pass Rush, QB. That is what wins championships. Not WR's.
 
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Mitch

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I get it Mitch..... My issue is two-fold.

1. Why would we ever draft a player using the reason: I don't want my division opponents to have him. When has that ever worked?

2. What makes you think we are even close to winning this division? We are probably 5 to 6 games worse than the Niners and 3 to 4 games worse than the Seahawks.

Other teams have shown us the blueprint. O-Line, Pass Rush, QB. That is what wins championships. Not WR's.

I believe that TA, like PP, could make a 3-4 game win difference, right now. BA has said he wants to win now.

Jonesy, have you had a chance to take a close look at BA's offense?

If you look at what BA did with Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh (his 3 years with BA: 171/3,206/18.7/24tds) and with what he did with rookie WR T.Y. Hilton in Indy last year (50/861/7tds)---if BA got his hands on TA, the sky is the limit.

I am thinking 104 catches for 1280 yds and11 tds as a rookie.

Plus, by taking the double team off Larry Fitzgerald I believe he has the same type of stats BA got from Reggie Wayne last year:

106 catches for 1355 yards...10 tds (double the 5 TDs Wayne had).
 

WildBB

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I love Quinton Patton, WildBB---great route runner and hands, and it meant a great deal, imo, that Jonathan Banks, one of the top SEC CBs in this draft, said recently that in all his years at Mississippi St. the most difficult assignment he had was trying to cover Quinton Patton. The guy has an uncanny knack for getting open and he has great hands. But, imo, he will be off the board early in round 2 and possible late in round one. I could see the 49ers taking him.

The three WRs I've been watching recently that I like a lot are Ryan Swope (6-0, 206, Texas A&M), Kenny Stills (6-0, 190, Oklahoma) and Josh Boyce (6-0, 203, TCU)...al of whom ran great times at the combine and have been very productive. If one of these three is on the board at #69---I'd love to take one of them, if we don't take TA that is.

It's an extremely deep draft for WR's. I'd like to pick one up in this draft (3/4th) along with a RB possibly.

I could see this team going depending on FA. OL-QB-WR-RB-TE in the first five picks this yr.

OR OL-DL/OLB-QB-WR-RB-TE
 
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Mitch

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It's an extremely deep draft for WR's. I'd like to pick one up in this draft (3/4th) along with a RB possibly.

I could see this team going depending on FA. OL-QB-WR-RB-TE in the first five picks this yr.

OR OL-DL/OLB-QB-WR-RB-TE

It is a deep draft in WRs, WildBB, but there is no one like Tavon Austin....he is a versatile WR/RB/KR who has the feet, quickness and body control this league hasn't seen since Barry Sanders.

Check out his career touches at West Virginia:

528/7,284/13.8/41 tds
 

Dr. Jones

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I believe that TA, like PP, could make a 3-4 game win difference, right now. BA has said he wants to win now.

Jonesy, have you had a chance to take a close look at BA's offense?

If you look at what BA did with Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh (his 3 years with BA: 171/3,206/18.7/24tds) and with what he did with rookie WR T.Y. Hilton in Indy last year (50/861/7tds)---if BA got his hands on TA, the sky is the limit.

I am thinking 104 catches for 1280 yds and11 tds as a rookie.

Plus, by taking the double team off Larry Fitzgerald I believe he has the same type of stats BA got from Reggie Wayne last year:

106 catches for 1355 yards...10 tds (double the 5 TDs Wayne had).

Again,

I hear you. I just think this is putting the cart before the horse. How can TA do all that (your projections would make his rookie season either the greatest or 2nd greatest by a WR EVER) when our QB is getting pressure after 1 second? AND..... How can he do all of that when he will be NO BETTER than be our #3 WR to start the season? How will having to keep a RB & TE in to protect our QB affect his performance & playing time?

Doesn't Floyd by himself take the double team off of Fitz?

I have seen a ton of the BA offense. And frankly, I am mortified at how he could expect to protect our QB & RB the way he prefers to pass protect. Deep drops..... 5 in to block..... IN THE NFC WEST? He doesn't have Big Ben or Andrew Luck to save his ass by extending plays and making hall of fame caliber decisions.

In conclusion, I will say it again.

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kerouac9

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It is a deep draft in WRs, WildBB, but there is no one like Tavon Austin....he is a versatile WR/RB/KR who has the feet, quickness and body control this league hasn't seen since Barry Sanders.

Check out his career touches at West Virginia:

528/7,284/13.8/41 tds

LOL. It's so easy to push Mitch over the edge into overheated babble.

We haven't seen Mitch this worked up since he was agitating for DeSean Jackson with the 16th pick in the 2008 draft.

There isn't a WR in the NFL who can make a 3-4 game difference in a team's record, because someone has to deliver him the ball. He won't be a threat that anyone is going to have to respect if (1) he's knocked three yards off the line of scrimmage in press technique and (2) there's no one to deliver him the football.

And yes, Drew Stanton counts substantially as "no one."
 

TJ

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I get it Mitch..... My issue is two-fold.

1. Why would we ever draft a player using the reason: I don't want my division opponents to have him. When has that ever worked?

2. What makes you think we are even close to winning this division? We are probably 5 to 6 games worse than the Niners and 3 to 4 games worse than the Seahawks.

Other teams have shown us the blueprint. O-Line, Pass Rush, QB. That is what wins championships. Not WR's.

Agree across the board. If there's a sure-fire o-lineman at #7 like Warmack, Fisher, or Joeckel; or a pass rusher like Jordan on the board, and we pass on him or trade down in hopes of landing TA, I will throw the biggest temper tantrum a 31-year-old has ever thrown.

The case AGAINST Tavon Austin is very simple: we have deficiencies at every other position on offense, literally. Drafting him in the first round would be like buying a Ferrari steering wheel and putting it in your Honda Civic. The car will look prettier, but the rest of it is still going to be slower than molasses. Hell, I don't even like Geno Smith and I'd rather see him drafted over Austin.

Also, teams should never draft a player to keep him from a division rival. That's called, "playing not to lose" as opposed to, "playing to win."
 

Jetstream Green

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Mitch,

I am on board with Austin.

Disclaimer: Did not see one game of his college career.

However... I have gone and watched a ton of his youtube highlights so I feel qualified to offer up an assessment of the guy for the board. :D

Dude is electric. Would make our offense immediately better, as you eloquently state. As I always preach, it's about the eyeball test, and this kid's talent singes the corneas. His lack of ideal size bothers me nil.

Mitch, you reference Barry Sanders in describing Austin, as you should, however, he absolutely reminds me of someone else. Someone who has achieved nothing short of sainthood in the annals of Cardinal lore.

Terry Metcalf. 'Cept faster.

Watch Austin's video, then go watch you some Metcalf... uncanny the similarity. I refer particularly to the short area vision, quickness, and just outright Godliness of their talent.

moves can remind one of Metcalf, and he is faster than Metcalf...but Metcalf was far more physical
 
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Cardiac

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What jumps to my mind is CJ Spiller, the Bills had the same thoughts about what he could do for the Offense. The thing is he did provide that POP and has made some big plays so it's not that he doesn't have skills.

Their Oline is not good and their QB is not good and I'm pretty sure their Pass Rush isn't very good.

I see the Bills situation as similar to the Cards. Spiller didn't get them where they hoped he would and it's not Spillers fault.

Now flip the scenario to the Falcons when they moved up in the draft for Julio Jones. Not the same skill set at TA but Jones is an explosive playmaker. Difference is the Falcons have a good Oline and QB.

So as many have stated this is not the year to go for a playmaker like TA in rd 1 of the draft. We need to upgrade the Oline, OLBer and QB positions first.
 
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Mitch

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LOL. It's so easy to push Mitch over the edge into overheated babble.

We haven't seen Mitch this worked up since he was agitating for DeSean Jackson with the 16th pick in the 2008 draft.

There isn't a WR in the NFL who can make a 3-4 game difference in a team's record, because someone has to deliver him the ball. He won't be a threat that anyone is going to have to respect if (1) he's knocked three yards off the line of scrimmage in press technique and (2) there's no one to deliver him the football.

And yes, Drew Stanton counts substantially as "no one."

Funny you should say that about DeSean Jackson (5-10, 175, California)---I clearly remember you responding the exact same dismissive and arrogant way then as you are now---and it's 5 years later we STILL do not have a legitimate stretch the defense speed WR on the roster.

DeSean Jackson has made 2 Pro Bowls in 4 years---when Mel Kiper did his Re-Visiting the 2008 NFL Draft he had Jackson in the top ten.

Look at his stats:

Receiving:

2008 (rookie): 62/912/14.7/2 tds
2009: 62/1,156/18.6/9 tds
2010: 47/1,056/6 tds
2011: 45/700/15.6/2 tds

totals (4 years): 274/4,785/17.5/23 tds

Punt Returns:

totals: 117/1,223/10.5/4 tds

Rushing:

totals: 54/371/6.9/3 tds.

TOTAL YARDS: 6,379
YARDS PER TOUCH: 14.3
TOTAL TDS: 30

We drafted DRC instead. One good year, one horrible year, then traded.

You still maintain that drafting DRC was a better decision?

What, just because the draft pundits had DRC rated higher?

DeSean Jackson will always be the better and more dynamic player and it's not even close.

Your track record of dismissing smaller players is dubious---we had the same debate about Daryl Washington---you were adamant he was too small to be effective.
 

kerouac9

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DRC was the better choice, and remains so. DRC is a better player than Jackson, whose 2012 stats you interestingly hide in your description of this "gamebreaker" who admitted to not playing very hard in his contract year because he was unhappy.

Where has DeSean Jackson lead the Philadelphia Eagles? In which game(s) has DeSean Jackson's play carried them past a team like... say, the Arizona Cardinals?

He's had one big year and his totals have declined ever since. That's a fine risk with a mid-second round pick, but with the 16th overall pick in the draft?

He'd be considered a bust.
 

Mulli

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DRC was the better choice, and remains so. DRC is a better player than Jackson, whose 2012 stats you interestingly hide in your description of this "gamebreaker" who admitted to not playing very hard in his contract year because he was unhappy.

Where has DeSean Jackson lead the Philadelphia Eagles? In which game(s) has DeSean Jackson's play carried them past a team like... say, the Arizona Cardinals?

He's had one big year and his totals have declined ever since. That's a fine risk with a mid-second round pick, but with the 16th overall pick in the draft?

He'd be considered a bust.

Horrible topic for discussion. Both are terrible.
 

Cheesebeef

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I believe that TA, like PP, could make a 3-4 game win difference, right now. BA has said he wants to win now.

Jonesy, have you had a chance to take a close look at BA's offense?

If you look at what BA did with Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh (his 3 years with BA: 171/3,206/18.7/24tds) and with what he did with rookie WR T.Y. Hilton in Indy last year (50/861/7tds)---if BA got his hands on TA, the sky is the limit.

I am thinking 104 catches for 1280 yds and11 tds as a rookie.

oh my lord... what? you're expecting him to have the second best rookie WR season in NFL history? where the hell do you come up with this stuff?
 

WildBB

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oh my lord... what? you're expecting him to have the second best rookie WR season in NFL history? where the hell do you come up with this stuff?

He'll be real good. Just can't see him coming here with no OL. We need a foundation and solid players. We already have some good wide outs. A burner would help though. This guy has after burners with radar.
 

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