Furthering The Case for Tavon Austin

[Lagerfilled]

To Mitch's point... If we go out in FA and get say Andy Levitre and Shaun Phillips, then there's no reason why we couldn't draft Austin @ 7 and say Frederick @ 38. Those are of course big ifs, but it could work. However I really don't expect the Cards to bring in another expensive FA Guard or a OLB, but who knows. In this scenario they still wouldn't have a QB to get the ball to that killer WR corps. I'd much rather build the belly of our team through the draft and stop wasting mega $$$ on marginal FAs.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

If Whiz and company hadn't slit their own throats by wasting last years high pick on a #2/3 WR, I could by into you idea. But no way now. If we did something like that, all we would have is another wasted great player, like L.F. is now. We have to, and I mean have to, fix the inside of our team once and for all. Nothing will make any difference until we fix and build our OL. Once we do that, then we can splurge on the exciting part of the game.

 

[MWOOD92]

OL QB OLB. Nothing else!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The problem isn't Austin himself, but taking him at 7. You mention TY Hilton and Randall Cobb as comparisons but look at where they were drafted. Cobb was 64 and Hilton in round 3. That's where you take those type of players because they are not dominant, focal type players, rather added dimensions to the offense.

I agree that a lack of speed is, and has been, a problem and it should be addressed. But, for the Cards offense, I think you can get just as much value drafting Denard Robinson in round 5 as Austin at 7. Both are going to be 3rd option type WR's that will make the occassional big play but are not every down players.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I just think very differently about how to score points and move the chains, as I tried to explain. I also feel that when a player stands out as a star you don't pass him by---like Adrian Peterson.

I think Tavon Austin is a star.

He's a player that can win a Lombardi.

I am hoping it is as a Cardinal.

How many WR's have won a SB MVP? Is he Jerry Rice or Deion Branch?

Again, the guy is a beast. My issue is the same issue I had with Floyd but now it would even be more magnified. He will play less than 50% of the seasons snaps. 25% over the first 4 games and then it will increase as the season progresses.

Then you factor in that our O line is going to kill our QB's and our QB's can't throw the ball downfield.

 

[cardpa]

Mitch take the rose colored glasses off. You become so enamored with players you lose site on how to build a team and where the most glaring weaknesses are. I'm glad your not the GM. We would have an assortment of guys all over the place and no cohesiveness whatsoever.

Austin can run himself silly all over the field and what good would it do if our QB is lying flat on his back half the time and the opposing QB has all day to throw so Austin never gets on the field because the opposing team has the ball so much.

If I'm not mistaken you have mentioned that taking Floyd was not such a hot idea last year and here you are touting the same idea. Your swooning here Mitch. I would never argue that speed helps however if you can't block and run the ball all the speed in the would isn't going to win you games.

 

[Duckjake]

If Whiz and company hadn't slit their own throats by wasting last years high pick on a #2/3 WR, I could by into you idea. But no way now. If we did something like that, all we would have is another wasted great player, like L.F. is now. We have to, and I mean have to, fix the inside of our team once and for all. Nothing will make any difference until we fix and build our OL. Once we do that, then we can splurge on the exciting part of the game.

CKW and Graves slit their throats by running off Matt Leinart, he may not have been any better than the other jokers we've had at QB but he was a guy who could sell tickets and jerseys and keep the Cardinals a marketable product, and running a guard of the month club.

Skelton can get the ball downfield. Just doesn't know who it's going to.

Our offensive line got fixed the minute Grimm left the building.

This year is perfect for Mitch's wild scenarios because who knows what SK and Arians are going to do with the roster.

 

[kerouac9]

5'8", 174 lbs.

Dude is going to get broken in half in the NFL. His catch radius is going to be drastically smaller than almost every other wideout in the NFL. That means that for every yard downfield that his route runs, the tighter a window that his quarterback is going to have to throw into to deliver the ball.

He's an inch shorter and 10 lbs. lighter than Steve Smith (Carolina Panthers). He's a risk-reward pick, and the risk is too high at #7 overall for a guy who's going to get 60 targets a season as a slot WR.

 

[Totally_Red]

He's a special talent. Unfortunately the Cardinals don't have the luxury of drafting him this year.

Hopefully the Cardinals pick up some 2014 picks by moving down a couple times in this draft. With just seven picks and significant needs and very little salary cap space, I don't think we can afford luxury picks *or* trading up in THIS draft.

Sadly, the Rams have 2 first round picks and the Seahawks and Niners are loaded with draft picks.

The previous regime didn't do BA and Steve Keim any favors.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I saw Austin rip up Baylor, OU among others this year.
K9 comparing Roberts game breaking abilities & speed to Austin is a crime & like you said you haven't seen him much. He's got jets, but I still think my fellow Texan Goodwin has more jets in comparison on the field.

I have no desire to draft any Longhorn on offense EXCEPT Goodwin...guy is fast, really fast, Olympic speed fast and would even like it if the Cards got him as early as round three.

 

[DoTheDew]

Do you realize what Tavon Austin's career production at WVU was?

receiving: 288/3,413/29TDs
rushing: 109/1,031/6TDs
total: 397/4,444/35TDs

not even counting his return yards.

Austin averaged 11.2 yards every time he touched the ball on offense.

and that's not including his yards on returns.

Marquis Goodwin had 26 catches last year for 380 yards and 3 TDs.

His career receiving numbers at Texas in 4 years were:

120/1,364/7TDs

Doesn't really matter what the career production was. You said you want speed. So we should go for speed.

Austin was the focal point of that offense, he won't be the focal point of ours any time soon.

He's a guy who's going to get about 5 targets a game for at least his first two seasons on the team. That's not good value for a #7 pick. You keep saying passing on him would be like passing on Adrian Peterson. Sorry but Adrian Peterson gets 20-30 plays a game where he touches the ball. That's impact.

Even as the #2 WR Austin isn't going to be getting more than 10 targets a game. Does he add more yardage and 1st downs to our offense in 10 plays than an elite OL does in 60? Possibly. Does he add more yardage to our offense than even a minor upgrade at QB would? Doubtful.

You posted about "moneyball" once earlier. WR would be the opposite of moneyball. It's the position that's always overpaid and overdrafted relative to the difference it makes on an offense. For further evidence, just look at what once "great" WRs like Deion Branch and TJ Houshmandzadeh did once they didn't have the right QB throwing to them anymore.

For me, a WR isn't worth a top 10 pick unless he is on Fitz or Calvin Johnson's level. I like Austin, but he's not going to give us what Fitz gave us.

 

[jf-08]

How does Austin compare to Reggie Bush when he was at USC, other than paid less?

 

[Chopper0080]

After that year's fiasco, I can't believe anyone is advocating for a WR in round 1. This is ridiculous.

 

[kerouac9]

It's worth reminding ourselves that the sacks will be reduced once we get adequate quarterback play.

When Leonard Davis departed before the 2007 season and the Cards put out a line of:
LT - Mike Gandy
LG - Reggie Wells
C - Al Johnson
RG - Deuce Lutui
RT - Levi Brown

The Arizona Cardinals had an Adjusted Sack rate of just 4.7%, good enough for 9th in the NFL. In the 2009 season, the Cads had an Adjusted Sack Rate of 5.2%, still good enough for 7th in the NFL. That's Kurt Warner.

You can add as many offensive linemen as you like, but without adequate quarterback play, you're not going to get anywhere.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's worth reminding ourselves that the sacks will be reduced once we get adequate quarterback play.

When Leonard Davis departed before the 2007 season and the Cards put out a line of:
LT - Mike Gandy
LG - Reggie Wells
C - Al Johnson
RG - Deuce Lutui
RT - Levi Brown

The Arizona Cardinals had an Adjusted Sack rate of just 4.7%, good enough for 9th in the NFL. In the 2009 season, the Cads had an Adjusted Sack Rate of 5.2%, still good enough for 7th in the NFL. That's Kurt Warner.

You can add as many offensive linemen as you like, but without adequate quarterback play, you're not going to get anywhere.

Let me know where we can get that.

 

[Totally_Red]

Let me know where we can get that.

2014 NFL draft {hopefully}.

 

[JeffGollin]

Austin vs. Goodwin...

You know how NFL Network overlays various forty dash runners on a single screen so you can determine the extent of separation between various runners?

I wonder if teams (or the League) can (or do) set up fixed cameras to do the same thing with agility and other drills.

Wouldn't it be neat to see Austin superimposed over Goodwin to see which one comes across as faster/smoother during the various position drills?

 

[kerouac9]

You know how NFL Network overlays various forty dash runners on a single screen so you can determine the extent of separation between various runners?

I wonder if teams (or the League) can (or do) set up fixed cameras to do the same thing with agility and other drills.

Wouldn't it be neat to see Austin superimposed over Goodwin to see which one comes across as faster/smoother during the various position drills?

It'd be neat, but probably not useful. The 40 is an apples-to-apples comparison. The only variable is the runner. In position drills, the QB is different, the routes may be different, the delivery of the ball from the QB is different. Position players have to make minute adjustments for each of these factors in a way that isn't even conscious.

It might be interesting, but it wouldn't reveal anything.

 

[Mulli]

Does he compare with Percy Harvin?

 

[WildBB]

It's worth reminding ourselves that the sacks will be reduced once we get adequate quarterback play.

When Leonard Davis departed before the 2007 season and the Cards put out a line of:
LT - Mike Gandy
LG - Reggie Wells
C - Al Johnson
RG - Deuce Lutui
RT - Levi Brown

The Arizona Cardinals had an Adjusted Sack rate of just 4.7%, good enough for 9th in the NFL. In the 2009 season, the Cads had an Adjusted Sack Rate of 5.2%, still good enough for 7th in the NFL. That's Kurt Warner.

You can add as many offensive linemen as you like, but without adequate quarterback play, you're not going to get anywhere.

I think GB Atl. and Indy put that theory to the test this past season. They all overcame it though and made it into the playoffs on the back of said QB.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

[kerouac9]

I think GB Atl. and Indy put that theory to the test this past season. They all overcame it though and made it into the playoffs on the back of said QB.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Atlanta was 8th in Adjusted Sacks. Don't know what that proves.

As for Green Bay and Indy--Indy was a mirage playing one of the easiest schedules in the NFL. Take the "under" on them next year--they're gonna be 8-8, maybe worse. Green Bay was a barely beat a Minnesota team at home that was starting a guy who hadn't practiced all season and wasn't prepared to play, despite nabbing 3 turnovers on defense.

Andrew Luck took too many sacks. Aaron Rodgers took WAY too many sacks. Look for both teams to invest heavily in OL this offseason, but if the quarterbacks don't improve, it's not going to make much different.

Rodgers' QBR fell almost 15 points from 2012 to 2013.

 

[Chopper0080]

Atlanta was 8th in Adjusted Sacks. Don't know what that proves.

As for Green Bay and Indy--Indy was a mirage playing one of the easiest schedules in the NFL. Take the "under" on them next year--they're gonna be 8-8, maybe worse. Green Bay was a barely beat a Minnesota team at home that was starting a guy who hadn't practiced all season and wasn't prepared to play, despite nabbing 3 turnovers on defense.

Andrew Luck took too many sacks. Aaron Rodgers took WAY too many sacks. Look for both teams to invest heavily in OL this offseason, but if the quarterbacks don't improve, it's not going to make much different.

Rodgers' QBR fell almost 15 points from 2012 to 2013.

While I agree regarding the Colts in 2012, I think the Colts in 2013 will have a much more talented roster. I am sure they will improve their offensive line and if their defense can be better, they will get at least 4 wins from the Jags and the Titans. Unless they flop this offseason, I just don't see the Colts taking a step back.

The Packers are quickly becoming very overrated. I agree Rodgers needs to take less sacks but they also need to figure out their offensive line since Sherrod and Bulaga have both been very underwhelming. Their defense is also getting less and less dynamic. Rodgers carried that team last year.

 

[GatorAZ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_UNFZHSQU

Full-screen 1080p it...

 

[Darkside]

While I agree regarding the Colts in 2012, I think the Colts in 2013 will have a much more talented roster. I am sure they will improve their offensive line and if their defense can be better, they will get at least 4 wins from the Jags and the Titans. Unless they flop this offseason, I just don't see the Colts taking a step back.

The Packers are quickly becoming very overrated. I agree Rodgers needs to take less sacks but they also need to figure out their offensive line since Sherrod and Bulaga have both been very underwhelming. Their defense is also getting less and less dynamic. Rodgers carried that team last year.

I actually think the Colts will win a lot fewer games. Too many holes and teams have tape on Luck now. They had so much emotion last year and nothing to lose. They need to upgrade just about every position on their team except QB. I say they go 8-8 next year AT BEST.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Russ Smith]

You can't look at Goodwin's stats in a vacuum football was a hobby for him his primary thing was training for the Olympics.

He has the tools to be a good football player but he's very raw.

Austin is exciting but he's much smaller than Harvin and taking another WR in the first round would just continue the issues on the OL and at other spots.

Now if we moved one of our other WR's to get another pick or something I could see then moving down and taking a flyer on Austin but I don't think Roberts has much trade value and I kind of doubt we're going to trade Floyd this early.