Gambo and Ash - Barbosa closer than Diaw to a contract extension.

[nowagimp]

chap, I think youre right. Diaws (statistical)performance next year will depend on how strong amare comes back. The suns relied on Diaw alot, especially after KT went down, Nash became fatigued, and in the playoffs. Next year, the suns may not need to have as much playmaking from Diaw, with Amare and Banks. The inflation of NBA salaries over the past years is mainly in the unproven players, guys who have had one good year or less like JJ, Diaw, Okur, Nene(??). The owners have themselves to blame, but agents are also to blame for pulling every trick inthe book(psychological alienation of players and owners, etc). It seems like owners now speculate alot on players upsides with their contract offers.

The suns are/will be cursed by their own system, which tends to statistically overstate the value of players with limited skills(example, guys who cant create their own shots). How ironic it is that Nash gets less credit for his value by making others better and players that benefit from playing with Nash often get more credit(Finley with the max, but Nash wasnt valued as worth 60% of that).

 

[Joe Mama]

If the Spurs offered that for Duncan, would you take it? I would, and this kid is projected to be another Duncan or better.

yes, he's "projected" to be another Duncan. However, he's nowhere near Tim Duncan right now. IF he ever gets that the it's probably going to take a couple years. I'll wait to see how he does at Ohio State before I believe he's the next Tim Duncan.

Besides, I think he's really 40 years old.

Joe

 

[SunsTzu]

Besides, I think he's really 40 years old.

No kidding. Dude looks like he could be Mutumbo's older brother.

 

[JS22]

It looks like Diaw is going to possibly command 9-10 million a year, thanks to Nene's ridiculous contract.

Did GAmbo say that or is that your thoughts? Nothing wrong with that, but Diaw is out of the country and that may have something to do with him not getting signed for a while.

They were referring to Nene's contract, and how most of these forwards are looking at getting "Nene money." They're obviously just speculating, but they do have a point. Is Diaw better than Nene? Of course. Therefore, he should get at least $10,000,000 a year.

I'm not worried yet. But it's most likely going to come down to Diaw or Marion.

 

[jlove]

The lux tax problems with trading Marion next summer is the Suns will still have to take back ~ $16 million in salaries, albeit (hopefully) in multiple players. Nonetheless, that's still taking away from Diaw's money because they won't have the time the trade away the parts they get for Marion.

Based on what the market's paid out and what Diaw showed last year and in the playoffs, he's worth $10 million per. I think it would be very difficult to argue otherwise at an arbitration table.

Not neccesarily. If the Suns trade him to a team that is under the cap, then we could end up just getting draft picks and a TE. It happened pretty much like that last summer with the JJ trade. We got a $6 mil TE, 2 draft picks and Diaw. All, because Atlanta was under the cap. Yes, it would be somewhat different because Marion is under contract and JJ was a RFA, but it works the same.

 

[Gaddabout]

Rookie center thats already better than all but two of the centers currently in the NBA.(Shaq and Ming)

2 years tops and he'll be the best center in the NBA.

He's so good people think he would've went #1 if him and Lebron were in the same draft.

We wouldnt even need anymore bigmen with Stoudemire and Oden lol

Have you actually seen him play? Are you certain he won't be the next Sam Bowie, Michael Olowakandi, Pervis Ellison, Ralph Sampson, <insert No. 1 pick big man here>?

What I have actually seen of Oden is somewhat impressive, but I'm not ready to put the immediate future of the franchise on his shoulders. I don't have to, because we already have a championship caliber team. I, for one, wouldn't be so quick to write off key players in favor of a draft pick for that very reason.

 

[Gaddabout]

Not neccesarily. If the Suns trade him to a team that is under the cap, then we could end up just getting draft picks and a TE. It happened pretty much like that last summer with the JJ trade. We got a $6 mil TE, 2 draft picks and Diaw. All, because Atlanta was under the cap. Yes, it would be somewhat different because Marion is under contract and JJ was a RFA, but it works the same.

I confess I'm playing "guess the GM psychology here," but I'm working under the assumption a team under the cap isn't going to want a $16.5 million player for just two years. It's more likely going to be the team that thinks it's one player away from becoming a contender -- or at least a serious playoff team.

But I recognize the the Suns could do a deal with one of the five or six teams that will be under the cap and not have to take all that salary back.

 

[Joe Mama]

I actually would have no problem with a contract for Boris Diaw averaging $9-10 million. I think I'm more discouraged that he is supposedly asking for an extension in that price range, and they are "far apart". I'd rather have him at that price than Barbosa at $5-7 million.

Joe

 

[jandaman]

Diaw is more important than Barbosa at this point, I think this isnt a real good idea to sign Barbosa first before Diaw... as the Suns can replace Barbosa easier than Diaw..

Diaw is a must sign... 45-50 million for 5 years... get it done.

 

[Cheesebeef]

wow - I'm seeing what I perceive to be a lot of short-sightedness on the part of a lot of guys concerning Diaw. People are talking about Diaw's numbers going down next season because of Stouds return as evidence as to why he's shouldn't get 10-11 per year, but there's a couple things wrong with that IMO.

1) Even when Diaw was avergaing 30 minutes at the beginning of the season, the guy was still putting up 11, 6 and 6 and his game was still developing. Do you not think he's going to get AT LEAST 30 minutes per game again this year? I believe he'll get MORE than that, seeing as KT is likely going to have his minutes reduced and we won't want to put too much pressur eon Amare, considering what he's coming back from.

2) The guy's game is just scratching the surface. He's shown the ability to rebound, be a great passer, has a low-post game. AND even showed towards the end of the season to have a pretty solid mid-range game. None of those things are just going to disappear, in fact, considering Diaw's age, there's only reason to believe ALL OF THEM will get better with time.

3) This isn't all about next year - contracts/extensions are signed looking towards THE FUTURE - it's pretty clear KT's only got one or two more years left in him and Marion's contract is done in three years and then what? Marion's basically going to be in the same position that guys like Nash and Ben Wallace were - guys on the downside of their careers who are going to STILL be looking for ridiculously huge contracts and at that point, much like Nash and Wallace, I expect Marion to walk. Hell, I expect if we don't win a title next year and there's no major injuries, I think Marion's probably traded next year.

Diaw is all about TWO things - being a GREAT piece of the puzzle for THIS GROUPS' title run, but more than that, he's going to be likely ONE OF THE SUPERSTARS for the next eras title run. The Nash, Amare, Marion team has probably 2-3 years MAX left to make it happen, but I hope the Suns want to be prepared to make a substantial run and transition to the next era fluidly. I think signing Banks is a big part of that transition, as will be the Hawks pick.

Basically, the next eras team is probably going to be centered Around 4 keys guys, 4 core players - Amare, Diaw the Hakws #1 pick and Banks. THAT'S why getting Diaw signed to a contract extension at 10 mill/per year is worth it. It not only helps us in the short run, but it is a bridge to our future, plain and simple.

If they can['t get that deal done and Diaw's asking for more than 11 per, well, then I understand, but if they send him a JJ-type offer of 5-45, then I cringe because it will be apparent to me that we haven't learned our lesson at all. We struck gold with Diaw - he was a throw in that no one expected anything out of and we were able to dufficently get better from the mistake we made with JJ. That doesn't happen everyday in the NBA and I hope the Suns realzie that. You just can't expect to have conitnual success over a ten year stretch if you can't negotiate the middle contracts. MAX and MLE's are the easy part, it's the guys in between - the Rips, the Manus, the Princes, that are the tough part and those are the guys (which I believe Diaw is) this team needs to learn how to keep to bridge from one era to another.

 

[SunsTzu]

I agree with everything cheese said with the exception of having Banks a core player over Barbosa(assuming he is extended). I too expect Diaw to only get better and if he is getting 10mil per it means his contract starting the '07-'08 season will only be around 8mil(I happen to think a year from now his value will be considerably higher than that). In the long run Diaw at that price will be a bargain imo, my only concern is how it would impact the immediate financial situation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with everything cheese said with the exception of having Banks a core player over Barbosa(assuming he is extended). I too expect Diaw to only get better and if he is getting 10mil per it means his contract starting the '07-'08 season will only be around 8mil(I happen to think a year from now his value will be considerably higher than that). In the long run Diaw at that price will be a bargain imo, my only concern is how it would impact the immediate financial situation.

well, I agree with Barbs thing also - I actually think those two guys are interchangeable as far as the next era - It's Barbs/Banks, Amare, Diaw, Hakws pick.

As far as the immediate financial situation, it shouldn't do ANYTHING this year because thos extensions won't kick in until next season and to be honest, if everyone's healthy and we don't win a title, this team will be due for a shake-up of some sort (by which I mean, most likely Marion).

 

[Chaplin]

Diaw is a great player and is going to get better, but if you give him over 10 million per year, you base that contract one what he MIGHT become, not what he IS. So the trick is to find a happy medium. Based on what he is right now, a contract of no more than 7 million would fit, but again, we're looking at potential, and he is very far from a star, hence the 5/45 number. Is it getting into Joe Johnson "mistake" territory? This situation is extremely different. We offered JJ 5/45, he asked for 5/50, which we wouldn't do for some reason. JJ took that as an insult and he left the following summer. As far as we know, that has not happened with Boris.

I also don't think Boris is nearly the type of player as JJ was. JJ wanted to be "the man", he was nowhere near comfortable being the 4th man, and I think everyone here can agree with that. Boris, however, can (or at least, that's what he appears to be). It's all a matter of what he's perceived to deserve (which none of us are qualified to estimate) and what he's actually asking. And that's where the negotiations come into play.

If he asks for 10 million, I would tend to say just give it to him. If he asks for 11 or 12, however, the front office has to think very hard about it.

 

[hsandhu]

Mark my words, they will extend boris. Why?

Because the odd man out isn't diaw or barbosa, it's marion. Not only do lots of people on this board (including myself) want diaw for the long term vs. marion, based on lots of different things i've read, so too does sarver.

If they win the title this year, he may be willing to keep everything together and go too around a 72/73 million payroll. If not, kurt thomas is definitely gone, and likely marion.

What's happening right now, is the suns are trying to get the best possible deal they can. They're trying to get the 5/45 million tayshaun prince range, diaw's camp is probably somewhere around 53 million. At the end of the day it will be somewhere around 5 years 49/50 million. Right now the suns are probably acting like that is too high, but that's just posturing. They'll pay that much, because they realize they can make the moves in the future, kurt/marion, to make that more than reasonable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Mark my words, they will extend boris. Why?

Because the odd man out isn't diaw or barbosa, it's marion. Not only do lots of people on this board (including myself) want diaw for the long term vs. marion, based on lots of different things i've read, so too does sarver.

If they win the title this year, he may be willing to keep everything together and go too around a 72/73 million payroll. If not, kurt thomas is definitely gone, and likely marion.

What's happening right now, is the suns are trying to get the best possible deal they can. They're trying to get the 5/45 million tayshaun prince range, diaw's camp is probably somewhere around 53 million. At the end of the day it will be somewhere around 5 years 49/50 million. Right now the suns are probably acting like that is too high, but that's just posturing. They'll pay that much, because they realize they can make the moves in the future, kurt/marion, to make that more than reasonable.

I hope your right because I agree with EVERYTHING you said above. I just want that deal to get done. Barbs is a luxury to me - Boris is the benchmark for success or failure this offseason.

 

[Wally]

Chaplin's pretty much hit the nail on the head. About the only thing I could add to Chap's post is JJ was not consistent when he was asking for that extra $. He played well on the road but not at home. Sarver told him he would get a lot more $ if he played well for the year - He did and the rest is history.
Boris has been very consistent and I would expect the Suns to work it out.

 

[Nash]

completely agree with what Chap says. Diaw for an avg of 9 mil per yr is alright. 10 per yr is stretching it and I would give it some thought. 10+ would be a very hard decision to make. He certainly hasn't made his case for that kind of money till now. Based purely on potential, you can only pay so much.

I hope Diaw takes a page out of Ginobili's book and chooses the best situation for him. Manu did the smart thing and settled for 5/45. It would be great if Diaw did that and going purely on what I've seen of him in games and interviews he looks very level-headed; the kind of guy who can listen to reason and be content with the best situation for him. Unless of course his agent, whoever that is, throws a spanner in our works.

Managements in the NBA, mainly Denver have set a very bad precedent with the Nene deal. I hope that doesn't totally throw player contracts out of control.

 

[SunsTzu]

Manu went to the team that offered him the most money.

Edit- Also Manu wasn't coming off as good a year as Diaw.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Manu went to the team that offered him the most money.

Edit- Also Manu wasn't coming off as good a year as Diaw.

not to mention that Manu was 27 as well, thus you already had a pretty good idea of what his ceiling would be. Diaw is MUCH younger - 21 or 22, correct? The guy's ceiling at this point is very high considering what we saw him do in only his first hint of real action/playing time.

 

[Chaplin]

Manu went to the team that offered him the most money.

Edit- Also Manu wasn't coming off as good a year as Diaw.

Are you sure that Manu's best offer was 5/45? I have a hard time believing that.

 

[sunsfn]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here is what is left for Ginobili starting with 2006/2007[/FONT]​

Not sure when it started, 2004-2005? I think it may have been for 6 years back then, now it would be 5.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Emanuel Ginobili[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - $8,250,000 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$9,075,000 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$9,900,000 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$10,725,000[/FONT]

 

[Joe Mama]

Manu is playing on a 6-year, $52 million contract. I thought Denver offered him more (maybe $60 million), but he decided to stay with San Antonio.

Joe

 

[asudevil83]

Mark my words, they will extend boris. Why?

Because the odd man out isn't diaw or barbosa, it's marion. Not only do lots of people on this board (including myself) want diaw for the long term vs. marion, based on lots of different things i've read, so too does sarver.

If they win the title this year, he may be willing to keep everything together and go too around a 72/73 million payroll. If not, kurt thomas is definitely gone, and likely marion.

What's happening right now, is the suns are trying to get the best possible deal they can. They're trying to get the 5/45 million tayshaun prince range, diaw's camp is probably somewhere around 53 million. At the end of the day it will be somewhere around 5 years 49/50 million. Right now the suns are probably acting like that is too high, but that's just posturing. They'll pay that much, because they realize they can make the moves in the future, kurt/marion, to make that more than reasonable.

IMO KT is the odd man out by a long shot. the suns have absolutely no interest in trade Marion right now.

additionally, its going to be extremely difficult to 1.) get a fair deal for Marion and 2.) NOT take on just as much salary as we give up.

the ONLY teams we can trade Marion to are teams under the cap if we want to avoid the LT. it would be absolutely pointless for us to trade Marion for 4 guys and still be heavy in LT territory. we will have maybe 4-5 teams who can afford to absorb Marion's salary next offseason, and the odd of those teams just taking him for draft picks are slim. it was a fluke what Atlanta did last offseason, and the likely-hood of that happening again, expecially when we are talking about a $4mil+ more cap hit, are minute.

if the odd man out is Marion, then the time to trade him is NOW. not next offseason, when we are DESPERATE to unload his contract. and since D'Antoni is hanging up the phone on any offer, then i can assume that Marion isnt going anywhere.

if the suns can unload KT's contract, it will be possible to pay both Diaw and Barbosa (i see him being traded anyway), while only taking on a small LT payment. IMO, in the 07 offseason we will see KT/Barbosa/2007 pick traded for some player and mid round 2007 first rounder.

or even a laugher deal would be Hunter/Salmons for KT/2nd again.

 

[Evil Ash]

IMO KT is the odd man out by a long shot. the suns have absolutely no interest in trade Marion right now.

additionally, its going to be extremely difficult to 1.) get a fair deal for Marion and 2.) NOT take on just as much salary as we give up.

the ONLY teams we can trade Marion to are teams under the cap if we want to avoid the LT. it would be absolutely pointless for us to trade Marion for 4 guys and still be heavy in LT territory. we will have maybe 4-5 teams who can afford to absorb Marion's salary next offseason, and the odd of those teams just taking him for draft picks are slim. it was a fluke what Atlanta did last offseason, and the likely-hood of that happening again, expecially when we are talking about a $4mil+ more cap hit, are minute.

if the odd man out is Marion, then the time to trade him is NOW. not next offseason, when we are DESPERATE to unload his contract. and since D'Antoni is hanging up the phone on any offer, then i can assume that Marion isnt going anywhere.

if the suns can unload KT's contract, it will be possible to pay both Diaw and Barbosa (i see him being traded anyway), while only taking on a small LT payment. IMO, in the 07 offseason we will see KT/Barbosa/2007 pick traded for some player and mid round 2007 first rounder.

or even a laugher deal would be Hunter/Salmons for KT/2nd again.

Trading for that would bring little relief at all. The best option if they want cap relief is to simply let KT and Marion's contract expire in 2 seasons.

They probably not paying the luxury tax this year and if they simply keep both KT and Marion they will pay the luxury tax for one year and then get $25 million in relief.

 

[Nash]

Just checked to make sure, this is what I found about Manu's contract:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?lname=G&player=142

Sorry, 5/45 wasn't accurate but 6/52 is pretty close ain't it? The fact that he nixed bigger money to stay with the Spurs is what I really like about the guy. Wonder if he would've been an All-Star player had he joined the Nuggets. In any case, he's a one of a kind player in the NBA. I don't see others in the NBA with his kind of versatility and spark-plug effect.