Gambo and Ash - Barbosa closer than Diaw to a contract extension.

[SunsTzu]

Are you sure that Manu's best offer was 5/45? I have a hard time believing that.

Why he was coming off a year where he scored 12.8ppg on 41% shooting. As cheese pointed out he was already 27 years old at the time. I may be mistaken but I'm fairly certain Denver offered less(I think they actually offered Hedo a larger contract than what they offered Manu but I can't remember).

 

[se7en]

I say you're all a bit off. It's all about Boris' best friend, Tony Parker. This is what really needs to be looked at.

Parker signed his extension with the Spurs, November 2004 at the age of 22. The previous season (his 3rd) Parker averaged 14.7 ppg (44.7% shooting), 5.5 assists (2.4 tos), 3.2 rbs, .8 stls, .1 blks and 34.4 minutes per game. Before the Spurs signed his extension, they were trying to trade him so that they could sign Jason Kidd because they felt Parker was too "Inconsistent." However, when the Kidd signing fell apart they came back and gave Parker $66m over 6 years.

So now we have Parker's best friend and French national teamate (who was just named the captain over Parker) at age 24 who just came off his 3rd season where he averaged 13.3 ppg (52.6% shooting), 6.2 assists (2.3 tos), 6.9 rbs, 1.1 blks, .7 stls and 35.5 minutes per game.

Well, I don't know about you, but if you had to choose between these 2 players at this same point in time, who would you pay more money too? Parker got $10m a year from a Spurs team that refuses to pay more for players than other teams. I'd think that based on this, Diaw will get around $11m a year - except here's the real kicker. If Diaw believes in himself he'll pull a Wade and LB and sign a contract with an opt-out after 3 years so that he can also re-sign for a much higher amount after the next bargaining agreement. So they may have to give him a Nene type contract to get him signed long term.

So that's my theory - It's all about Tony Parker. This is what we should be looking at because this is who he is talking too for guidance.

 

[Covert Rain]

You people keep bringing up trading Marion but it's not going to happen. It's a total pipe dream. They reported that almost every team has contacted the Suns about Marion and they ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE him.

There are plenty of teams with Cap space or the ability to trade players in return. The fact it hasn't happened by now confirms what D'Antoni told Gambo and Ash earlier. They will not trade Marion.

So if they do get Diaw done, I would expect the Suns to have so much money tied up that they keep passing on the draft. Unless by some miracle some college god falls to them, I think they are going to go with this group for the forseable future. Heck, I think Saver might even pay a luxury tax if this team gets a ring.

 

[SunsTzu]

Parker signed his extension with the Spurs, November 2004 at the age of 22. The previous season (his 3rd) Parker averaged 14.7 ppg (44.7% shooting), 5.5 assists (2.4 tos), 3.2 rbs, .8 stls, .1 blks and 34.4 minutes per game. Before the Spurs signed his extension, they were trying to trade him so that they could sign Jason Kidd because they felt Parker was too "Inconsistent." However, when the Kidd signing fell apart they came back and gave Parker $66m over 6 years.

Parker signed his contract last summer not in '04. Jason Kidd signed his new contract in '03 and that was the summer there was some talk of the Spurs making a play for him but the Nets convinced him to stay because they brought in Zo(and oh yeah were giving him more money).

Also Parker's deal comes to 11mil per and I have been worried that is the deal Diaw will be looking for.

 

[Chaplin]

IMO KT is the odd man out by a long shot. the suns have absolutely no interest in trade Marion right now.

1) Correct, the Suns have no interest in trading Marion right now.

2) However, they also have no interest in trading KT as well. There has been nothing in any paper or reliable source that says they attempted to trade Kurt Thomas.

So I'm not sure why KT is the "odd man out". What does that mean? That we don't need him? Well, that's not true. His contract might cause an issue, but certainly not this season, and if the team REALLY wants to trade him, he will be much easier to trade next summer, assuming he is healthy when the season ends.

 

[Folster]

I was thinking that the Suns would hold off on Barbs after the Banks signing. If both play well one will likely be expendable and Banks is fairly cheap. At least that's what I would expect management to think.

 

[panfolk]

How long should one wait before getting panicky about the re-signing of Diaw?

 

[JCSunsfan]

How long should one wait before getting panicky about the re-signing of Diaw?

Why not now? Half the fans on message boards have to panic about SOMETHING. Amare is coming back, Kurt is healthy, we just signed a backup for Nash.

The Diaw deal is the only thing left to really knash the teeth over. If he's signed soon--we'll just have to find something else.

 

[panfolk]

Why not now? Half the fans on message boards have to panic about SOMETHING. Amare is coming back, Kurt is healthy, we just signed a backup for Nash.

The Diaw deal is the only thing left to really knash the teeth over. If he's signed soon--we'll just have to find something else.

I for one would have nothing to bemoan about the summer if Diaw gets signed and they DON'T sign Barbosa.

 

[se7en]

Parker signed his contract last summer not in '04. Jason Kidd signed his new contract in '03 and that was the summer there was some talk of the Spurs making a play for him but the Nets convinced him to stay because they brought in Zo(and oh yeah were giving him more money).

Also Parker's deal comes to 11mil per and I have been worried that is the deal Diaw will be looking for.

Apparently I can't count late at night. You're right, $11m a year for Parker. Anyway, you get my point that Diaw may expect that or more when he compares to his best friend.

The rest of my information is correct.

Jason Kidd re-signed with the Nets in July 2004
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0724/1585089.html

Spurs were left to sign Parker to an exntension a few months later in November 2004.
http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/parker_resigns_041102.html

 

[MastersofCombat]

Barbosa doesnt command $5-7million per season, he is a liability in so many ways. He does drive but he has blownout his knees injury prone, cant play defense, constantly exploited while on defense, cant play the point he is Q.richardson on any other team... BUST FOR THAT AMOUNT

 

[F-Dog]

If the Suns are close on Barbosa, they must be converging around the MLE (or even slightly below that). If Diaw and the Suns are 2-3 million apart, the Suns are likely trying to hold the line at 5/40.

If they're holding at 5/40, they're probably hoping to compromise at 5/45. I'd be thrilled to see Diaw come in at that number.


One reason the Spurs had to pay $66m for Parker is the way they alienated him the previous summer in the Kidd debacle. He was probably trying to get out of San Antonio for good that summer, and he definitely wasn't in the mood for compromise--the only way the Spurs were going to sign him was by paying through the nose.


If the Suns 'learned anything' from the Joe Johnson negotiations, it's that their bungling put them in an even better position than before. If anything, they'll be encouraged to hold a hard line with Diaw.

Still, I think it's more likely that Diaw gets his deal done this summer. Once both sides start moving their lines, they'll bridge the gap fairly quickly IMO.

 

[George O'Brien]

I honestly feel teams tend to get paniced into signing extentions based on wild worst case scenerios. What is the worst that can if they wait and match his RFA contract offer? $15 million a year for five years. How many teams can afford to offer that kind of money and is Boris the kind of guy that will attract that kind of money? I doubt it. For most teams, super max money is reserved for guys who are able to score a lot points or can dominate in the paint.

What kind of offer is a "reasonable" team going to make to Boris that the Suns wouldn't match? Wilcox and Gooden are finding just how few teams have the ability to offer more than an MLE, even though both are worth a lot more than that.

The counter argument is that there is always the risk of really crazy GM who is willing to grossly overpay. Clearly the Hornets signing Peja to that ridiculous contract is a great example. However, I think the Suns can rest assure that at least one crazy GM is not going to go after Boris. I don't think the Hawks need any more reminder of how they got taken.

 

[asudevil83]

1) Correct, the Suns have no interest in trading Marion right now.

2) However, they also have no interest in trading KT as well. There has been nothing in any paper or reliable source that says they attempted to trade Kurt Thomas.

So I'm not sure why KT is the "odd man out". What does that mean? That we don't need him? Well, that's not true. His contract might cause an issue, but certainly not this season, and if the team REALLY wants to trade him, he will be much easier to trade next summer, assuming he is healthy when the season ends.

IMO (and let me make that clear), the suns have two strategies. #1). trade Marion this offseason and avoid the LT in 07/08 or trade KT this offseason and pay $3mil-$4mil in 07/08 or #2). hold onto them both now and waiting until next offseason would be a mistake IMO. we would get bent over trying to trade either of them after next season in order to avoid paying the LT.

i think it would be 10x more advantagious for us to anticipate our financial situation and avoid putting ourselves in a situation where we could be taken advantage of when it comes to dumping contracts. do you recall the Googs trade and Jahidi White trades? in those two trades we gave up 3 first round draft picks just to dump contracts. and at the time, both of them were expiring contracts. those two trades were done to avoid the LT, and we were bent over on each of those.

trading KT (while his value is relatively high, and we are not desperate) for an expiring big man such as Maglore of Brown, or even two lesser contracts, would so much better than panicing and giving up first rounders (which teams know we have plenty of) in order to dump the guy. teams look at assets, and we have PLENTY OF THOSE, when it comes to incentives.

lastly dropping KT now instead of Marion would hurt us A LOT less than dropping Marion.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Suns face paying luxury tax 2007-08, but KT's contract comes up in 2008and Marion in 2009.

As a general rule, cap dumps involve taking back expiring contracts on guys you don't really want. This means that projected savings is not as much as it looks if you assume some mythic team with lots of cap space is willing to take a player off your hands with immediate savings. Right now there are only a few teams with anything beyond MLE:

Atlanta
Charlotte
New Orleans
Toronto

 

[Joe Mama]

You people keep bringing up trading Marion but it's not going to happen. It's a total pipe dream. They reported that almost every team has contacted the Suns about Marion and they ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE him.

There are plenty of teams with Cap space or the ability to trade players in return. The fact it hasn't happened by now confirms what D'Antoni told Gambo and Ash earlier. They will not trade Marion.

So if they do get Diaw done, I would expect the Suns to have so much money tied up that they keep passing on the draft. Unless by some miracle some college god falls to them, I think they are going to go with this group for the forseable future. Heck, I think Saver might even pay a luxury tax if this team gets a ring.

Depending on what they get in return it won't kill me if/when the Phoenix Suns trade Shawn Marion. However I'm not sure I would call it a dream of mine. I agree that there isn't a chance in hell he's going anywhere this off-season. Next season is another story though. Mike D'Antoni is talking about this off-season regarding Marion trades. Next year will be a different story.

IMO (and let me make that clear), the suns have two strategies. #1). trade Marion this offseason and avoid the LT in 07/08 or trade KT this offseason and pay $3mil-$4mil in 07/08 or #2). hold onto them both now and waiting until next offseason would be a mistake IMO. we would get bent over trying to trade either of them after next season in order to avoid paying the LT.

i think it would be 10x more advantagious for us to anticipate our financial situation and avoid putting ourselves in a situation where we could be taken advantage of when it comes to dumping contracts. do you recall the Googs trade and Jahidi White trades? in those two trades we gave up 3 first round draft picks just to dump contracts. and at the time, both of them were expiring contracts. those two trades were done to avoid the LT, and we were bent over on each of those.

trading KT (while his value is relatively high, and we are not desperate) for an expiring big man such as Maglore of Brown, or even two lesser contracts, would so much better than panicing and giving up first rounders (which teams know we have plenty of) in order to dump the guy. teams look at assets, and we have PLENTY OF THOSE, when it comes to incentives.

lastly dropping KT now instead of Marion would hurt us A LOT less than dropping Marion.

You do realize that the Phoenix Suns want to make a run at a championship next season, don't you? The Phoenix Suns feel Shawn Marion gives some their best shot. The odds that Shawn Marion is traded this summer are about the same as the odds that we will wake up to complete world peace and harmony tomorrow.

Besides, if every team in the league is calling inquiring about Shawn Marion's availability there will probably still be many suitors willing to offer about as much next summer.

Does anybody have a list of teams and their projected room under the salary Summer? I don't feel like looking right now, but I thought the free-agent class for the summer of 2007 was supposed to be very strong.

Joe

 

[SunsTzu]

Bobcats and Magic should have the most capspace next year. I could see the Magic being intrested in Marion being a vetren presence for their young team. The strength of next years FA class is getting weaker by the day though since most of the top guys are signing extentions.

 

[Nash]

So now we have Parker's best friend and French national teamate (who was just named the captain over Parker) at age 24 who just came off his 3rd season where he averaged 13.3 ppg (52.6% shooting), 6.2 assists (2.3 tos), 6.9 rbs, 1.1 blks, .7 stls and 35.5 minutes per game.

Small correction, Diaw didn't get chosen over Parker to be captain. I was surprised when Diaw was named captain and not Parker, so checked it out yesterday :

http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=203367&src=0

" Bergeaud's (French Coach) first target was to appoint NBA superstar Tony Parker.

But the San Antonio Spurs point guard refused to take that responsibility again after enduring a difficult experience at the 2003 Eurobasket where the team
finished a disappointing fourth place and failed to qualify for the 2004 Olympics in Athens."

 

[asudevil83]

You do realize that the Phoenix Suns want to make a run at a championship next season, don't you? The Phoenix Suns feel Shawn Marion gives some their best shot. The odds that Shawn Marion is traded this summer are about the same as the odds that we will wake up to complete world peace and harmony tomorrow.

Besides, if every team in the league is calling inquiring about Shawn Marion's availability there will probably still be many suitors willing to offer about as much next summer.

Does anybody have a list of teams and their projected room under the salary Summer? I don't feel like looking right now, but I thought the free-agent class for the summer of 2007 was supposed to be very strong.

Joe

i thought i was making this clear. teams are inquiring about Marion now, and we are not interested in trading him. which leads me to believe that IF the suns are looking to prep themselves for the 07/08 season, its KT they are looking at trading because dropping him from out 07/08 list of salaries would most likely keep us from having to unload Marion.

also, its A LOT easier unloading $8mil than $16mil when you dont want to take back much, if any salary.

and IF we were thinking about unloading Marion next summer, i'm sure that there will be many teams inquiring. but how many teams will be able to offer a package that will allow us to not take on just as much salary as we give up? not many. trading $16mil for $16mil does NOTHING to keep us from paying boatloads of LT.

 

[Covert Rain]

The counter argument is that there is always the risk of really crazy GM who is willing to grossly overpay. Clearly the Hornets signing Peja to that ridiculous contract is a great example. However, I think the Suns can rest assure that at least one crazy GM is not going to go after Boris.

I agree with part of what you said. The problem is there is ALWAYS one GM that is willing to overpay a player. Sometimes it's to save his job, replace an injured player or spend some cap space. So, I don't think the Suns can rest assured at all. Someone WILL overpay Diaw if given the opportunity. It's imperative that we tie him up versus him going out and getting other offers.

 

[Gaddabout]

You people keep bringing up trading Marion but it's not going to happen. It's a total pipe dream. They reported that almost every team has contacted the Suns about Marion and they ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE him.

The Suns have not said what they plan to do next summer. D'Antoni's statement revealed no long-term committment. He mostly said the team they have right now is a championship caliber team and Marion is a big reason for that.

If the Suns don't win a championship next year, you can bet D'Antoni will be less inclined to pay him $17 mil he'll be due in 07/08, particularly if it means an either/or proposition of Marion vs. Diaw.

 

[boisesuns]

Diaw around -10 million would be alright. It seems like a lot (Nash makes 10.5million this season). Considering that Diaw is probably option #3-4 it's not so bad. It does make the cap sitation kind of scarry though.

SteelDog is right, someone will come and give Diaw 12-14 million, if we don't lock him up sooner.

 

[jbeecham]

I like Boris Diaw, but if he's looking for 10+ million per year then he's asking for too much. He had 1 good year on an injury ridden Suns team, next season with Amare & KT back he should be coming off of the bench (although still playing 30-35 mpg). During the regular season, he averaged 13.3 ppg, 6.2 assists, 6.9 rebs which is good, but not $10+ million numbers. His ppg went up to 18.7 in the playoffs, but his rebounding (6.7) and assists (5.2) went down a little while playing almost 5 more mpg. Plus, those stats are inflated by our style of play.

I agree with management on this one that Diaw shouldn't be paid more than 7-8 million average per season. Are we going to have to overpay to extend him? Probably. Does he deserve it based on his play so far? No. These contracts are out of control and agents are to blame (along with teams caving to the agents).

BTW on the Parker signing, the other reason they gave him $11 mil per year is because he's close to being a top 5 PG in the league. I don't even know what position you'd put Boris at to try to determine if he's a top 5 player at his position......you'd have to do it for every position on the court and he's not in the top 5 in any of them, but probably top 25 in all of them. The only exception might be when he plays C because there are so few quality centers in the league and Boris is not a C.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Diaw, Barbosa, the Atlanta #1 AND another #1 for Oden?

Oden's good, but come on now.

id do it. the front line of marion, stoudemire, and oden would possibly the best front line in the history of basketball.

 

[Chaplin]

id do it. the front line of marion, stoudemire, and oden would possibly the best front line in the history of basketball.

Look, Oden is projected to be a great player, but he's never even played against college level players yet! 4 possible young players and a foundation for the future for one potentially great player is not the smartest transaction.