Gambo on Kobe, TMac, Nash, Josh Smith and Iguodala

[Joe Mama]

You really have a major problem with Shawn, don't you? It is true, I guess--when Penny left, someone had to take all the flak--you've obviously picked Shawn. It's bordering on ridiculous now.

In two years, Prince may be better? How do you figure that?

is this the point where you ask me for proof? I'm stating my opinion. That's what "IMO" means (In My Opinion). I also said he "may be better". I didn't say he absolutely will be.

I don't think that Marion and Prince are anywhere close offensively. Prince is a lanky role player who gets offensive opportunities in the playoffs when opposing teams clamp down on the primary options. In the regular season, he barely cracked double figures. Marion has his limitations, but he's at least twice the scorer that Prince is.

Prince is lanky, but he has no more trouble creating his own shot than Shawn Marion. Hell, when he was a rookie they gave the ball to him at the end of a couple playoff games to make something happen. I don't doubt for a second that if he was substituted for Shawn Marion on this team he would put up similar offensive numbers.

Shawn Marion is a great rebounder for a small forward, especially at his size. Take that away and I really don't think he's much better than Tayshaun Prince. He certainly isn't $9 million per season better.

The marginalization of Marion's abilities gets more rediculous by the day.

I bet Tayshaun Prince is wondering how Marion got his spot in the Olympics.

My post was actually more about how highly I think of Prince than my marginalization of Shawn Marion's abilities. I like Shawn Marion. If he can regain the consistency with his jump shot I'll be much more happy with him, and I probably won't complain about that contract nearly as much. I do think he's an overrated defender, and I wish he was a little bit taller because that's the direction the small forward position has been heading for a couple years now.

Chris, what do you really think of Shawn Marion? How do you feel about that contract?

Joe

 

[George O'Brien]

I swear Chad Ford must be reading our board and just loves to drive people here crazy.

It is theoretically possible that such a deal could be structured, but extremely improbable. Currently the Pistons have $56 million in salaries and could lose $23.4 million of it - primarily the $16.9 million of Sheed's contract. Assuming they can unload Campbell onto the Bobcats, that would cut another $4,4 million. This would give them just about $29 million. Assuming the cap is at $45 million, this would give them $16 million to work with. Assuming they signed Okur for $7 million and traded him for Marion at $11.3 million, this would leave only $4.7 million for Sheed.

It is obvious to me that to keep Sheed they will need a lot more money than that. Since the whole point of this is to clear more cap space, taking on other Detroit contracts offsets defeats the purpose unless it is just to dump Marion.

 

[Chaplin]

is this the point where you ask me for proof? I'm stating my opinion. That's what "IMO" means (In My Opinion). I also said he "may be better". I didn't say he absolutely will be.

Prince is lanky, but he has no more trouble creating his own shot than Shawn Marion. Hell, when he was a rookie they gave the ball to him at the end of a couple playoff games to make something happen. I don't doubt for a second that if he was substituted for Shawn Marion on this team he would put up similar offensive numbers.

Shawn Marion is a great rebounder for a small forward, especially at his size. Take that away and I really don't think he's much better than Tayshaun Prince. He certainly isn't $9 million per season better.

My post was actually more about how highly I think of Prince than my marginalization of Shawn Marion's abilities. I like Shawn Marion. If he can regain the consistency with his jump shot I'll be much more happy with him, and I probably won't complain about that contract nearly as much. I do think he's an overrated defender, and I wish he was a little bit taller because that's the direction the small forward position has been heading for a couple years now.

Chris, what do you really think of Shawn Marion? How do you feel about that contract?

Joe

Yep, this sums yourself up pretty well, Marion-hater.

 

[cly2tw]

Assuming they signed Okur for $7 million and traded him for Marion at $11.3 million, this would leave only $4.7 million for Sheed.

It is obvious to me that to keep Sheed they will need a lot more money than that. Since the whole point of this is to clear more cap space, taking on other Detroit contracts offsets defeats the purpose unless it is just to dump Marion.

Every team would like to have a star in Marion for 11.3mil than giving that cap slot to an headcase in Rasheed. That's for sure. To build a franchise, you really need to have the most expensive complementary player in place first!

Anyway, it's likely that Kobe will stay if Buss is to get rid of Phil Jackson. In that case, it's better for their team chemistry if they trade away Shaq as well. Well, what about doing it with the Suns for Marion, White, Eisley, our #7 and Cleveland's pick?

How many years are left on Shaq's contract? 2? If it doesn't work out, we just don't extend him. Meanwhile, he might be motivated to show the the Lakers they kept the wrong franchise player. The suns starting five would be:

Shaq/Amare/Zarko(CJ)/JJ/Barbosa(Vujanic)

Maybe we could get Fisher in the trade who'd be the starting PG instead of Barbosa. And we'd be able to use the MLE to sign a FA SF like Marshall and the other 1.5mil exception to sign a backup shooter. The team would be:

Shaq/Amare/Marshall/JJ/Fisher

with bench Lampe/Jake/Zarko/CJ/FA/Barbosa. It's one of the biggest, and best defensive, starting fives in NBA.

 

[George O'Brien]

It is hard to imagine anyone putting together an even marginally attractive deal that would match Shaq's salary. I guess the Kings could sign Divac to a one year $13 million contract to be matched with Webber; but that move would be too weird for words.

The Mavs could do it, but it seems extremely unlikely that the Lakers would want any of those contracts other than Dirks (maybe). Virtually every one of the Knicks is overpaid.

Let's face it, Shaq isn't going anywhere for the next two seasons.

 

[elindholm]

I guess the Kings could sign Divac to a one year $13 million contract to be matched with Webber

I'm pretty sure that a sign-and-trade player cannot be packaged with a teammate as part of the same deal, to prevent exactly this kind of manipulation.

I agree that any trade scenarios involving O'Neal are vastly unlikely.

 

[Joe Mama]

I guess the Kings could sign Divac to a one year $13 million contract to be matched with Webber

I'm pretty sure that a sign-and-trade player cannot be packaged with a teammate as part of the same deal, to prevent exactly this kind of manipulation.

I agree that any trade scenarios involving O'Neal are vastly unlikely.

you are correct. That's exactly what BYC was created to stop.

Joe Mama

 

[cly2tw]

It is hard to imagine anyone putting together an even marginally attractive deal that would match Shaq's salary. I guess the Kings could sign Divac to a one year $13 million contract to be matched with Webber; but that move would be too weird for words.

Are you implying that my proposed deal wouldn't be attractive enough to the Lakers? That they rather carry Shaq's salary and attitude by committing to Kobe for the next year or two and let him walk without compensation than accepting Suns' offer? Since Suns have tons of cap this offseason, my proposed deal works. The problem with our Suns fans is that they rather want to see Amare and Marion to be the superstars of a mediocre team than actually to have a real chance to win it all by adding Shaq, and two MLE players, within two years.

 

[elindholm]

Are you implying that my proposed deal wouldn't be attractive enough to the Lakers?

I don't know whether he was implying that, but I'll say it directly. There's no way that the Lakers would trade O'Neal for Marion, two bad contracts, a lottery pick and a low first-rounder. That would be among the most lopsided trades in the history of the league.

And if you think that White's and Eisley's expiring contracts make them more valuable in a trade, then why wouldn't the Lakers just let O'Neal walk? Then they get all of his salary off the books, instead of just part of it.

 

[slinslin]

On top of it who guarantees the Suns that Shaq won't break down before the end of next season?
He is already declining.

On top of it Shaq doesn't look motivated anymore. He'd probably retire if he was traded making him even less attractive to anyone who could put together a plausible package for him.

And why would the Suns help out the Lakers to keep Kobe?

I would rather have Kobe for 7 years and a declining Shaq for 2 years.

 

[cly2tw]

Are you implying that my proposed deal wouldn't be attractive enough to the Lakers?

I don't know whether he was implying that, but I'll say it directly. There's no way that the Lakers would trade O'Neal for Marion, two bad contracts, a lottery pick and a low first-rounder. That would be among the most lopsided trades in the history of the league.

And if you think that White's and Eisley's expiring contracts make them more valuable in a trade, then why wouldn't the Lakers just let O'Neal walk? Then they get all of his salary off the books, instead of just part of it.

Getting the two picks, one lottery, is not that bad. I'd admit they wouldn't do it because they wouldn't want anything to do with Marion's contract. White's and Eisley's are of no problem, since they'd be wasting 30 mil the next two years anyway, with Shaq refusing to be mentally on the team and contribute. Also, I thought Shaq's run for two more years, not?

Look, slinslin was saying my proposal would be helping the Lakers!

But, all in all, I'd give you that that the Lakers maybe better off just to wait for Shaq's contract to expire and try to sign FAs with the cap then avalable.

 

[George O'Brien]

Are you implying that my proposed deal wouldn't be attractive enough to the Lakers? That they rather carry Shaq's salary and attitude by committing to Kobe for the next year or two and let him walk without compensation than accepting Suns' offer? Since Suns have tons of cap this offseason, my proposed deal works. The problem with our Suns fans is that they rather want to see Amare and Marion to be the superstars of a mediocre team than actually to have a real chance to win it all by adding Shaq, and two MLE players, within two years.

This violates the first rule of trading - never do a major deal with another team in your own division.

Seriously, sending Shaq to the Kings gives the Kings two world championships. The Lakers simply won't do that, even if they would end up with a serviceable Chris Webber in the process. (Chances are they would end up with a guy on IR for the last few years of his contract).