Game 7 NBA Finals Spurs at Miami

[Cheesebeef]

Yes, I'm sure statistically they both looked way more graceful than Kareem.

Steve

Ha...sneakily hilarious response.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Only if you look at +/- advanced stats.

Of course. How else would you measure athleticism?

Steve

 

[D-Dogg]

And Isaiah has 0 arguments to be listed anywhere above Nash.

He's got two really big ones.

Oscar was always the point. He wasn't a forward, ever. He was a PG.

OH WAIT, you are the dude who thinks Magic wasn't a point, aren't you.

Nevermind.

 

[mojorizen7]

More than Olajuwon?

For my dollar Olajuwon was the most difficult big man to guard 1 on 1. His footwork in the post and anywhere in the vicinity of the painted area was technically sound and quick. He moved like a PF(similar to T.Duncan but much faster).

He could pass in tight spaces,shoot with range and touch,the fade away shot as a big man...Seriously?....and thats just offensively.

Defensively his strength was moving his feet(again),long arms and anticipation of the shot.

He was special. A nightmare to guard...it didn't help matters for opposing front lines that he had a couple of guys next to him that perfectly complimented him either...Thorpe and Horry next to Hakeem was a "Dream" front line.

I didn't see much of Kareem until he was older and starring in the movie "Airplane"


Olajuwon was the best center i've ever seen play basketball.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For my dollar Olajuwon was the most difficult big man to guard 1 on 1. His footwork in the post and anywhere in the vicinity of the painted area was technically sound and quick. He moved like a PF(similar to T.Duncan but much faster).

He could pass in tight spaces,shoot with range and touch,the fade away shot as a big man...Seriously?....and thats just offensively.

Defensively his strength was moving his feet(again),long arms and anticipation of the shot.

He was special. A nightmare to guard...it didn't help matters for opposing front lines that he had a couple of guys next to him that perfectly complimented him either...Thorpe and Horry next to Hakeem was a "Dream" front line.

I didn't see much of Kareem until he was older and starring in the movie "Airplane"


Olajuwon was the best center i've ever seen play basketball.

I'd say the same thing if I hadn't seen Lew/Kareem in his prime. If Shaq had MJ's head and heart though, this argument would likely be moot. He could have been the best player ever and until he decided to just be a brick house he was the most athletic of the bigs. I don't count him in the argument because by the time he'd mastered a few skills he'd given away enough of his athleticism to render him mortal.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

I'd say the same thing if I hadn't seen Lew/Kareem in his prime. If Shaq had MJ's head and heart though, this argument would likely be moot. He could have been the best player ever and until he decided to just be a brick house he was the most athletic of the bigs. I don't count him in the argument because by the time he'd mastered a few skills he'd given away enough of his athleticism to render him mortal.

Steve

Hakeem was great but like Ewing much of his offense was predicated on the NBA not calling walks. That Dream Shake is a great move, but it worked in large part because the NBA let him change pivot feet without calling it.

As for C's, it's hard to say but alot of longtime UCLA fans older then me insist Walton before the foot problems was better than Lew/Kareem.

I am old enough to have seen Walton win an NBA title and he was simply amazing. He was better defensively than Kareem and a better passer but wasn't the unguardable force Kareem was.

I'm not old enough to have seen Wilt but I suspect he was even better, remember when he was playing the NBA was changing and creating rules to try and stop him from being so dominant. I suspect if he got to play in an era where they allowed rampant 3 seconds and rampant travelling he'd have been even better. Someone did a film study of games from him that they had available, over 100 games, in those 100+ games Wilt averaged 9.8 blocks per game! Some of those games were the year he led the NBA in assists to prove he could if he wanted to.

Hard for me to comment on someone I never saw play live but I really have a hard time believing anybody was better than Wilt, maybe as good, but better just tough to imagine.

 

[SirStefan32]

As brilliant as Hakeem was, Kareem was better. Hakeem had "cooler" and more impressive moves, but Kareem had that one move (several variations) that was completely unstoppable. Defenders knew he was going for a sky hook, and they knew there was nothing they could do to stop him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hakeem was great but like Ewing much of his offense was predicated on the NBA not calling walks. That Dream Shake is a great move, but it worked in large part because the NBA let him change pivot feet without calling it.

As for C's, it's hard to say but alot of longtime UCLA fans older then me insist Walton before the foot problems was better than Lew/Kareem.

I am old enough to have seen Walton win an NBA title and he was simply amazing. He was better defensively than Kareem and a better passer but wasn't the unguardable force Kareem was.

I'm not old enough to have seen Wilt but I suspect he was even better, remember when he was playing the NBA was changing and creating rules to try and stop him from being so dominant. I suspect if he got to play in an era where they allowed rampant 3 seconds and rampant travelling he'd have been even better. Someone did a film study of games from him that they had available, over 100 games, in those 100+ games Wilt averaged 9.8 blocks per game! Some of those games were the year he led the NBA in assists to prove he could if he wanted to.

Hard for me to comment on someone I never saw play live but I really have a hard time believing anybody was better than Wilt, maybe as good, but better just tough to imagine.

Even amongst NBA fans back in the 70's you'll find more than a few that would agree with this. Despite injury issues, Bill still won an MVP over Kareem in his prime. Part of that, no doubt, was the almost unanimous dislike of Kareem but Bill was pretty incredible. As for Wilt, no one was ever as dominant as him but I still think Shaq could have been in that class with the right emotional makeup. I haven't really given any thought to how much better Wilt might have been in today's game but not because it isn't valid. It just seems impossible to really allow for all the differences.

As for rules changes because of dominance, remember the NCAA did away with the slam dunk for several years after getting a look at freshman Lew Alcindor.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

You guys crack me up. I came back from vacation and saw this huge thread about game 7 of the 2013 finals. I put off reading it for a long time. I finally start in and only the first page has anything to do with game 7. And very little about it!

 

[Russ Smith]

Even amongst NBA fans back in the 70's you'll find more than a few that would agree with this. Despite injury issues, Bill still won an MVP over Kareem in his prime. Part of that, no doubt, was the almost unanimous dislike of Kareem but Bill was pretty incredible. As for Wilt, no one was ever as dominant as him but I still think Shaq could have been in that class with the right emotional makeup. I haven't really given any thought to how much better Wilt might have been in today's game but not because it isn't valid. It just seems impossible to really allow for all the differences.

As for rules changes because of dominance, remember the NCAA did away with the slam dunk for several years after getting a look at freshman Lew Alcindor.

Steve

Yep they did away with the dunk specifically because of Alcindor, I was just talking NBA but you're right college changed the rules for Alcindor too.

The most amazing thing about Lew is as a freshman he dominated UCLA's varsity team, the freshman beat the varsity, and the varsity was the defending national champs! Now admittedly they had lost a couple of players and didn't win the NC that year, but that was a legit top 5 national team and Alcindor just destroyed them.

You're also right about the personal dislike for Kareem, like Rick Barry a large part of his legacy is that because he was difficult to like as a person, people tended to not give him enough credit as a player.