Garvin

[Carddan]

I am withholding game analysis until I have the opportunity to watch my replay. The stats for Garvin as a returner tonight, however, speak for themselves. (I'm also convinced that when I watch the replay it will support my opinion that I don't want to see him as a WR)

KO Returns: 4 for 120 yds = 30 yd avg. Long = 34 yds.
Punt Returns: 3 for 30 yds = 10 yd avg. Long = 15 yds.

If he has numbers like that after 4 games, some one else will lose a roster spot. Do you agree?

 

[clif]

As I stated in another thread. There is no way this guy is worth a roster spot. He can't catch, and has shown no ability to break a tackle nor make a move other than run real fast. I just don't see the value.

 

[TJ]

I said this in the chat: field position is going to be key next season and I dont like seeing premier players like Rolle and Breaston possibly spear tackled in a return situation.

If Garvin outplays both, your damn right we should make room for him. He needs to work on elusiveness, but if he can learn juke moves, he will be effective

 

[BirdMan21]

The one thing that stood out to me was when he was a gunner in the 4th quarter. He just ran right around then just tore away from the cover guys. He beat the punt down by so much the returner was actually able to be the person to knock him down. If he can learn how to cover punts and keep returning kicks at that rate he could be a help to this team.

 

[Unsterblich856]

I'll forgive him for the drop that resulted in a pick. He wasn't a WR in college, he was a CB. I don't want him to be a WR either, returners who start to focus on being a receiver suffer massive drops in return production (Hester, Breaston for example).

When it comes to returning, he's my favorite so far. He is the fastest person on the field. He did show some shiftiness on one return.

 

[Carddan]

As I stated in another thread. There is no way this guy is worth a roster spot. He can't catch, and has shown no ability to break a tackle nor make a move other than run real fast. I just don't see the value.

I do believe a saw him break a tackle tonight, but I'll wait to see the replay for confirmation. Also, 30yds per KO return would have been #1 in the NFL last year. You may or not be correct, but I believe there is significant potential value. Three more games will let us know and then the coaches will decide.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I'll forgive him for the drop that resulted in a pick. He wasn't a WR in college, he was a CB. I don't want him to be a WR either, returners who start to focus on being a receiver suffer massive drops in return production (Hester, Breaston for example).

When it comes to returning, he's my favorite so far. He is the fastest person on the field. He did show some shiftiness on one return.

So, dumb question, but if he was a CB in college and does not catch well, why are we using him as a WR and not a CB?

 

[clif]

I do believe a saw him break a tackle tonight, but I'll wait to see the replay for confirmation. Also, 30yds per KO return would have been #1 in the NFL last year. You may or not be correct, but I believe there is significant potential value. Three more games will let us know and then the coaches will decide.

30 yards a return in great, but correct me if I'm wrong... didn't JJ Arrington average like 27 a game last year? I'm not going to look it up because it's not that important. My point being is if that is all he can bring to the table... it's not good enough. I want to see LSH do some returns. At least he seems to offer something in the way of a 3rd down back. (not blocking wise)

 

[Unsterblich856]

So, dumb question, but if he was a CB in college and does not catch well, why are we using him as a WR and not a CB?

He's a bad corner who wouldn't ever see the field on defense, and there is a lack of true deep speed at WR (Breaston is fast, but he isn't Randy Moss fast). I assume he's going to be used like DRC when he was on offense, use his elite speed for go routes.

 

[SunsTzu]

So, dumb question, but if he was a CB in college and does not catch well, why are we using him as a WR and not a CB?

A WR who can't catch is better than a CB that can't cover since at least he could be a threat for a reverse or something. He'll only make the team as a special teamer anyway so I don't think it really matters what position they list him.

 

[az jam]

This is an interesting debate. Does a good return man have to contribute and play another position?? I would say no but only if he really is a quality return man on both punts and kickoffs. Quality should equal top ten in both categories (punts & kickoffs) in the NFL. But I'm not the coach and have been wrong many times in the past.

 

[binkar]

He averaged 25.6 yards per return including one 93 yards for a touchdown. If Garvin can even offer something on some of the other special teams, he may be worth keeping around.

 

[D-Dogg]

As I stated in another thread. There is no way this guy is worth a roster spot. He can't catch, and has shown no ability to break a tackle nor make a move other than run real fast. I just don't see the value.

Clif, he did break a couple of tackles on those returns, and he did follow holes. His returns all went out to the 35ish.

JJ averaged 25 ypc last year, which was really good..top ten I think. The very best KR averaged 29.5 or so.

Of course he can't catch, he's a converted DB who couldn't cover. His sole talent is returning kicks. That's why he's here. And "making moves" isn't what makes a good KR. Hitting the seams and outrunning people is what does it. Hester doesn't "make moves" as much as he simply runs fast through the correct lanes.

Garvin completely owned the scrubs. If he does that against starters (with likely better blocking), then he's going to be on the roster. ESPECIALLY with him doing well on both KR and PR.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

This is an interesting debate. Does a good return man have to contribute and play another position?? I would say no but only if he really is a quality return man on both punts and kickoffs. Quality should equal top ten in both categories (punts & kickoffs) in the NFL. But I'm not the coach and have been wrong many times in the past.

There is room on this roster for him as long as the team does not carry more than 3 TE's...

If he doesn't make the roster for this season, I seriously hope they can get him on the PS... However, if he continues to avg. 30 YPR, then he WILL be on the team...

 

[az jam]

Garvin completely owned the scrubs. If he does that against starters (with likely better blocking), then he's going to be on the roster. ESPECIALLY with him doing well on both KR and PR.

You raise an excellent point. He should start the next exhibition game(s) to see what he can do against the other team's starters. (note: both KR and PR per your suggestion)

That would be the real test.

 

[clif]

Clif, he did break a couple of tackles on those returns, and he did follow holes. His returns all went out to the 35ish.

JJ averaged 25 ypc last year, which was really good..top ten I think. The very best KR averaged 29.5 or so.

Of course he can't catch, he's a converted DB who couldn't cover. His sole talent is returning kicks. That's why he's here. And "making moves" isn't what makes a good KR. Hitting the seams and outrunning people is what does it. Hester doesn't "make moves" as much as he simply runs fast through the correct lanes.

Garvin completely owned the scrubs. If he does that against starters (with likely better blocking), then he's going to be on the roster. ESPECIALLY with him doing well on both KR and PR.

I think he is an ok return guy with tons of speed, but I wouldn't burn roster spot on him just yet. He's got to do something else.

I will challenge you on the moves thing. Being able to stop and start on a dime absolutely does help in the return game. What made Hester so good was he was able to change directions without losing speed. i did not see that from Garvin tonight. I saw someone with straight line speed while impressive, certainly not something we can't live without. I wouldn't be upset if he made the team, but boy we could sure use that spot somewhere else. Namely DB.

 

[jw7]

No way Garvin mekes this team. If you are a low-draft or undrafed rookie at WR you don't want to be in Cards camp. He might make another team and good luck if he does.

If he was a talented RB or OL or DE, we are talking shop, but Cards camp is a bad plece for rookie WRs who want to bump slots.

 

[clif]

Martay Jenkins.

 

[D-Dogg]

I think some of you are underestimating the real value of a bonafide top-shelf KR and PR.

The guy is worth a roster spot over say a second fullback or something.

 

[TJ]

I think some of you are underestimating the real value of a bonafide top-shelf KR and PR.

The guy is worth a roster spot over say a second fullback or something.

Yep. What any smart football analyst will tell you is that special teams is 1/3 of the game. Starting from the 38 is far better than starting from the 20

 

[D-Dogg]

Yep. What any smart football analyst will tell you is that special teams is 1/3 of the game. Starting from the 38 is far better than starting from the 20

With this offense, that's almost like starting in the red zone.

 

[clif]

I think some of you are underestimating the real value of a bonafide top-shelf KR and PR.

The guy is worth a roster spot over say a second fullback or something.

I'm not. I'm also not ready to call him a top-shelf KR. He may make the team, but it damn well better not come at the expense of a DB. We need all the help we can get.

 

[D-Dogg]

I'm not. I'm also not ready to call him a top-shelf KR. He may make the team, but it damn well better not come at the expense of a DB. We need all the help we can get.

I'm not ready to call him that yet, either. I want to see him against starter talent.

IMO, he's proven enough that he should be running as the starting KR/PR for the next game at least. If he continues to impress, I say keep him. If he falls off, then he's PS material.

 

[Unsterblich856]

I'm not. I'm also not ready to call him a top-shelf KR. He may make the team, but it damn well better not come at the expense of a DB. We need all the help we can get.

I wouldn't complain if it came at the expense of Aaron Francisco. In fact, I'd be overwhelmed with joy.

 

[PitchShifter]

I thought he ran with purpose and showed a good eye and smooth footwork to hit gaps. He went down pretty easily a couple of times when clipped, so needs to learn to keep his balance better in traffic. To me, he looked likely to break one, just couldn't squeeze it. I'd like to see more against better coverage. Don't want to see him as a WR.