Garvin

[Cbus cardsfan]

i like waht i saw out of him. It's early but a good KR/PR is definitley worthy of a roster spot. It would be nice if he could contribute at another position but guys like Allen Rossum have basically been just a KR for years. Hester was basically just a return man his first years in the league.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Garvin is not top shelf. From what I saw last night, the sprinter can catch. He has no "wiggle" but has some power.

Without an initial "shimmy" the kid will get only what the initial blocking can give him.

IMO Garvin has no shot of a roster spot unless he starts to learn how to juke people.

 

[187]

Garvin is not top shelf. From what I saw last night, the sprinter can catch. He has no "wiggle" but has some power.

Without an initial "shimmy" the kid will get only what the initial blocking can give him.

IMO Garvin has no shot of a roster spot unless he starts to learn how to juke people.

If he keeps on averaging 30 yards on his kick returns I don't really care if he can't shimmy and shake on a PR..a simple juke after catching the ball shouldn't be hard to teach at all though. And when he's returning kicks it doesn't even matter, just give the guy a seam to run through and let his gift (ridiculous speed) do the rest. Obviously punt returns aren't so easy, so that's something he can easily work on.

 

[Goldfield]

He stood out as a gunner. Returns were good. Three more games well see.

 

[SuperSpck]

Martay Jenkins.

In 2000 MarTay had 2100 return yards.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JenkMa00.htm
If memory serves, he was in a neck and neck race with Tiki Barber for most yards from scrimmage that year, back when Tiki was a specialist.

So yah, a return to that wouldn't feel so bad, I agree.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

So, dumb question, but if he was a CB in college and does not catch well, why are we using him as a WR and not a CB?

Well, he wasn't much pf a CB either. That said; if he can develop as a gunner in addition to kick/punt returner, it may be Adams the CB-gunner who is without a job.

 

[rode kardinaal]

How big is the possibility that we will release a pro bowler? Is it possible that Morey could be cut to make room for Garvin?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

How big is the possibility that we will release a pro bowler? Is it possible that Morey could be cut to make room for Garvin?

Possible, yup. Likely, no.

 

[joeshmo]

If he continues the 30-10 return average along with the solid kick/punt gunner play, you better believe he has a roster spot on this team. That would earn a roster spot on any team in the league.

Also ask any coach and he will tell you that shimmy is the devil for kickoff return men. The best return men in the legaue do not have shimmy, they hit the correct hole given to them and they are off to the races. Dont bring up Hester either, watch his TD returns and 99% of them have one thing in common, he hits the hole and just goes, there is no wasted movement. Then on Punt return all you need is one shimmy to break the first tackle, after that no wasted movement, get up field and go.

If shimmy added value to a return man then Barry Sanders would have been an awesome NFL return man, but he wasnt. Shimmy in College might work but not in the NFL.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If he continues the 30-10 return average along with the solid kick/punt gunner play, you better believe he has a roster spot on this team. That would earn a roster spot on any team in the league.

Also ask any coach and he will tell you that shimmy is the devil for kickoff return men. The best return men in the legaue do not have shimmy, they hit the correct hole given to them and they are off to the races. Dont bring up Hester either, watch his TD returns and 99% of them have one thing in common, he hits the hole and just goes, there is no wasted movement. Then on Punt return all you need is one shimmy to break the first tackle, after that no wasted movement, get up field and go.

If shimmy added value to a return man then Barry Sanders would have been an awesome NFL return man, but he wasnt. Shimmy in College might work but not in the NFL.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How big is the possibility that we will release a pro bowler? Is it possible that Morey could be cut to make room for Garvin?

Morey has his spot. It's more likely that a guy like Long doesn't make it before we cut Morey. He came close to blocking another punt last night.

 

[cgolden]

The one thing that stood out to me was when he was a gunner in the 4th quarter. He just ran right around then just tore away from the cover guys. He beat the punt down by so much the returner was actually able to be the person to knock him down. If he can learn how to cover punts and keep returning kicks at that rate he could be a help to this team.

That was the best display of his speed. Once he got free of those two defenders and turned on the jets, he flew by them and I think surprised the returner that he was down there so fast.

I think he is an ok return guy with tons of speed, but I wouldn't burn roster spot on him just yet. He's got to do something else.

I will challenge you on the moves thing. Being able to stop and start on a dime absolutely does help in the return game. What made Hester so good was he was able to change directions without losing speed. i did not see that from Garvin tonight. I saw someone with straight line speed while impressive, certainly not something we can't live without. I wouldn't be upset if he made the team, but boy we could sure use that spot somewhere else. Namely DB.

Why does he have to do something else? What else did Hester or Dante Hall, Joshua Cribbs or Allen Rossum do early in their careers? If he can be a good returners, that's all he has to do. Hell what else did Breaston do his rookie year.

Also the juke/moves things is only valid on punt returns. Most of the time, a punt returner has to make at least one guy miss and then turn on the jets. A kick returner just gets to full speed and finds the right lane.

 

[SuperSpck]

IF

Garvin keeps it up he'll have a spot on special teams.

But there's a problem.

Adams continues to show he deserves a spot on this team. He's still struggling in man-on coverage, but is a fearless tackler and excels when the play is in front of him.
He's a ST Ace.

Morey has too. Especially in punt coverage.

But 3 guys dedicated to ST's is a lot.

But I think it's worth it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

IF

Garvin keeps it up he'll have a spot on special teams.

But there's a problem.

Adams continues to show he deserves a spot on this team. He's still struggling in man-on coverage, but is a fearless tackler and excels when the play is in front of him.
He's a ST Ace.

Morey has too. Especially in punt coverage.

But 3 guys dedicated to ST's is a lot.

But I think it's worth it.

Heck, the 3rd guy should be Francisco, (as in only contributes on ST) but he actually was the nickel back with the first string last night. Who knows.

 

[CardinalChris]

The one thing that stood out to me was when he was a gunner in the 4th quarter. He just ran right around then just tore away from the cover guys. He beat the punt down by so much the returner was actually able to be the person to knock him down. If he can learn how to cover punts and keep returning kicks at that rate he could be a help to this team.

That is the key... he'd have to beat out a special teams coverage guy like Morey or Francisco to stick.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

That is the key... he'd have to beat out a special teams coverage guy like Morey or Francisco to stick.

or ADAMS...

 

[CardinalChris]

or ADAMS...

Like Francisco (because Morey will stay just for his kick blocking potential) it will also depend on how Adam's competition at DB performs. As of right now I don't think Toler is ready, so Adams sticks, as much for his CB play as his ST play.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The one thing that stood out to me was when he was a gunner in the 4th quarter. He just ran right around then just tore away from the cover guys. He beat the punt down by so much the returner was actually able to be the person to knock him down. If he can learn how to cover punts and keep returning kicks at that rate he could be a help to this team.

Good eye. I was just about to post that. You didn't see his speed on the return, but my jaw dropped on this play. He is, indeed, faster than DRC which I didn't think was possible.

Will he get a roster spot ? If he does it is because of the lack of depth at the KR/PR position. He could get a practice squad spot though.

 

[football karma]

I think some of you are underestimating the real value of a bonafide top-shelf KR and PR.

The guy is worth a roster spot over say a second fullback or something.

I agree with this

I like what I saw with Garvin

the issue is this: the team already uses one roster spot on a WR who really only plays special teams-- Sean Morey.

Can the team afford another?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If shimmy added value to a return man then Barry Sanders would have been an awesome NFL return man, but he wasnt. Shimmy in College might work but not in the NFL.

LOL, shimmy.......

Hey, you got to call it something, right ?

But perfect example of what you are saying is Brian Mitchell, arguably the best return man of all time, had ZERO shimmy. Hit the hole hard and go for the endzone.

I am surprised to hear you, Joe. You think he is worth a roster spot? That will be tough to justify. You think we could keep him on the practice squad or, would some other team pick him up ?

Very interesting situation.

Final note: I thought LSH showed a lot of "shimmy" on his first run. Enough to make two Steeler slam into each other trying to tackle him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'd say he deserves a roster spot at this point. Get rid of some of these TE's that we have that aren't doing much.

 

[Duckjake]

In 2000 MarTay had 2100 return yards.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JenkMa00.htm
If memory serves, he was in a neck and neck race with Tiki Barber for most yards from scrimmage that year, back when Tiki was a specialist.

So yah, a return to that wouldn't feel so bad, I agree.

Why did you have to bring that up? The 2000 Cards were probably THE worst team ever fielded by the Cards in the SuperBowl era. They were HORRIBLE. Outscored 443-210.

Martay returned 82 kickoffs that year which is the NFL single season record. 9 more than second place which unfortunately is shared by another Cardinal on another horrible team*. Josh Scobey's 73 returns in 2003.

*2003 is second worst team in my book only because they let us enjoy seeing all those Vikings fans go home losers.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do believe a saw him break a tackle tonight, but I'll wait to see the replay for confirmation. Also, 30yds per KO return would have been #1 in the NFL last year. You may or not be correct, but I believe there is significant potential value. Three more games will let us know and then the coaches will decide.

He pulled away from one tackle. Regarding preseason kick return averages, you have to completely throw them out, special teams in preseason games are a complete cluster of guys who won't make the roster playing with some who will. Guys are all charged up to make a big hit and get noticed and they get out of their lanes etc.

Garvin is quick that's obvious, but he didn't really make anybody miss, he just outran people to get to the open lane. If he can do that in week 3 against a more "real" ST unit then yeah keep him, but we can't really judge him so far.

 

[Mulli]

Why did you have to bring that up? The 2000 Cards were probably THE worst team ever fielded by the Cards in the SuperBowl era. They were HORRIBLE. Outscored 443-210.

Martay returned 82 kickoffs that year which is the NFL single season record. 9 more than second place which unfortunately is shared by another Cardinal on another horrible team*. Josh Scobey's 73 returns in 2003.

*2003 is second worst team in my book only because they let us enjoy seeing all those Vikings fans go home losers.

Exactly, I will take a pass on a "return to that."

 

[SuperSpck]

Exactly, I will take a pass on a "return to that."

Ha, you know I was referencing a return to the individual production, not so much the overall team.
This team and a 2100 return yards.

... and yes I see the flaw in my logic.