Garvin

[clif]

In 2000 MarTay had 2100 return yards.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JenkMa00.htm
If memory serves, he was in a neck and neck race with Tiki Barber for most yards from scrimmage that year, back when Tiki was a specialist.

So yah, a return to that wouldn't feel so bad, I agree.

Of course you know why he set the record for most return yards in NFL history. Because we were getting torched on defense.

 

[clif]

If he continues the 30-10 return average along with the solid kick/punt gunner play, you better believe he has a roster spot on this team. That would earn a roster spot on any team in the league.

Also ask any coach and he will tell you that shimmy is the devil for kickoff return men. The best return men in the legaue do not have shimmy, they hit the correct hole given to them and they are off to the races. Dont bring up Hester either, watch his TD returns and 99% of them have one thing in common, he hits the hole and just goes, there is no wasted movement. Then on Punt return all you need is one shimmy to break the first tackle, after that no wasted movement, get up field and go.

If shimmy added value to a return man then Barry Sanders would have been an awesome NFL return man, but he wasnt. Shimmy in College might work but not in the NFL.

You have to be able to elude a tackle or two. He shouldn't be THT back there dancing and what not, but it appeared to me that as soon as someone touched him he went down.

 

[clif]

That was the best display of his speed. Once he got free of those two defenders and turned on the jets, he flew by them and I think surprised the returner that he was down there so fast.


Why does he have to do something else? What else did Hester or Dante Hall, Joshua Cribbs or Allen Rossum do early in their careers? If he can be a good returners, that's all he has to do. Hell what else did Breaston do his rookie year.

Also the juke/moves things is only valid on punt returns. Most of the time, a punt returner has to make at least one guy miss and then turn on the jets. A kick returner just gets to full speed and finds the right lane.

Because we aren't a very deep team. It would be nice if say a backup corner could return kicks, then we would have something there.

Oh and the guys you mentioned were EXCEPTIONAL at returning kicks. Garvin might be... but I don't see that yet.

 

[joeshmo]

You have to be able to elude a tackle or two. He shouldn't be THT back there dancing and what not, but it appeared to me that as soon as someone touched him he went down.

Watch Hester return kicks, he does not wiggle out of tackles, he runs right past them, he of course eludes tackles but he doesnt elude them the way you want Garvin to. Hester eludes tacklers by running right past them and using what lane the coverage unit and his blockers give to him. He doesnt wiggle or run through tackles at all. There is not jucking and jiving in Hesters game, Hall was the only jucking and jiving return man that has made that work over a long period of time.

 

[Shane]

He was the epitomy of nothing special.

 

[clif]

He was the epitomy of nothing special.

For the first time in a long time Shane and I agree on something. I hope he lights it up, but I am not as impressed as some. He reminds me of troy walters with speed.

 

[Mitch]

The question is: if not Garvin, who is the KR?

The options are limited, methinks...unless the coaches are willing to put Beanie there. Now, that might be interesting indeed.

 

[clif]

Watch Hester return kicks, he does not wiggle out of tackles, he runs right past them, he of course eludes tackles but he doesnt elude them the way you want Garvin to. Hester eludes tacklers by running right past them and using what lane the coverage unit and his blockers give to him. He doesnt wiggle or run through tackles at all. There is not jucking and jiving in Hesters game, Hall was the only jucking and jiving return man that has made that work over a long period of time.

Because Hester is explosive. He could change directions on a dime without losing speed. I'm not asking him to do anything out of the ordinary or uneccesary. A slight cut to the inside of a would be tackler, a push through an arm tackle, something to get a man off balance would elevate his speed.

 

[moklerman]

Wow, I thought just about everyone would be excited about Garvin's potential. He looked like a bonafide return man out there.

No one gets a roster spot after the first preseason game but the guy looked pretty darned good in his first efforts. I doubt he'll do as well against the first stringers but it would sure be nice to have a good return man. JJ and Breaston have been fine but nothing particularly special.

I've always felt that Whis has been content with just not fumbling the ball on returns and any yardage was gravy. I'd like to see the special teams become a weapon that put pressure on the other team.

Garvin was brought down by some ankle tackles but looked on the verge of breaking a big one on more than one occasion. He earned a chance to move on.

 

[clif]

Wow, I thought just about everyone would be excited about Garvin's potential. He looked like a bonafide return man out there.

No one gets a roster spot after the first preseason game but the guy looked pretty darned good in his first efforts. I doubt he'll do as well against the first stringers but it would sure be nice to have a good return man. JJ and Breaston have been fine but nothing particularly special.

I've always felt that Whis has been content with just not fumbling the ball on returns and any yardage was gravy. I'd like to see the special teams become a weapon that put pressure on the other team.

Garvin was brought down by some ankle tackles but looked on the verge of breaking a big one on more than one occasion. He earned a chance to move on.

Of course Garvin deserves another shot or too, but if a guy like Toler offered anything in the return game (not sure if he is doing KR at this point anymore) then it would be a no brainer to keep Toler over a guy like Garvin is all I'm saying. People keep saying Toler has as much if not more speed than DRC.. well I hope he gets a chance to return kicks, because at least we know he has some coverage skills.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Of course Garvin deserves another shot or too, but if a guy like Toler offered anything in the return game (not sure if he is doing KR at this point anymore) then it would be a no brainer to keep Toler over a guy like Garvin is all I'm saying. People keep saying Toler has as much if not more speed than DRC.. well I hope he gets a chance to return kicks, because at least we know he has some coverage skills.

Garvin was on Olympic trials, one of the fastest players in the country, regardless of sport. Garvin ran 100M, 200M and even 400M. He has all the speed needed.

 

[clif]

Garvin was on Olympic trials, one of the fastest players in the country, regardless of sport. Garvin ran 100M, 200M and even 400M. He has all the speed needed.

I'm not debating that. I hope thats not what came across. To me there is a difference between sprinter speed and football speed. Some guys are just blazing fast straight ahead (Garvin) and some guys can change directions and not lose an ounce of speed (Hester or DRC).

Oh well it's only one game so I will leave it alone. I'm just not as enamored as some.

 

[moklerman]

Of course Garvin deserves another shot or too, but if a guy like Toler offered anything in the return game (not sure if he is doing KR at this point anymore) then it would be a no brainer to keep Toler over a guy like Garvin is all I'm saying. People keep saying Toler has as much if not more speed than DRC.. well I hope he gets a chance to return kicks, because at least we know he has some coverage skills.

I admit that hope and reality might be crossing paths for me but Garvin looked like he knew what he was doing on his return opportunities. He was more than just an experiment or a speed guy that was outrunning his blocking. I admit, I could be wrong but so far so good from what I saw.

The big question to come back to is can he be kept for primarily return duties and I really don't know. If it came down to it, I would just keep two QB's on the roster, Palko/BSP on the practice squad and let Garvin specialize if it was the only way to clear a roster spot. Assuming Garvin continues to play well.

Also, if only as a deep threat, I'd rather see him on offense than defense. If he's pretty useless as a DB anyway I think he could at least be useful in drawing the defense down the field and open up things underneath for the "6-handed monster".

 

[JeffGollin]

Here's why I'm pulling for Garvin...

1. We can't risk injury to Rolle or Breaston due to special teams play.

2. Garvin looked comfortable back there fielding punts and kickoffs.

3. Garvin shows Hester-like wiggle, explosion and pure speed - moreso than either Steve or Antrel.

4. So he's a body snatcher - that can be coached out of him. He can learn his receiving craft residing in a #6 wideout role.

Although - that said - it's easy to forget we need a place for Lance Long (who caught 5 passes and looked as though he belongs).

Here's a tough question to consider: "Is Sean Morey and his leadership, special team play, smarts etc. so essential as not to be expendible should Long or Garvin or Onrea Jones continue to come on like gangbusters?"

 

[TruColor]

This adds nothing to the legitimate discussion, but I can't resist - does anyone else think of THIS guys whenever you see or hear the name "Garvin"?:

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Dick Garvin. Male Prostitute.

 

[moklerman]

I think Long is just a nice story and won't actually make the squad. I've got nothing against the guy but no way he brings enough to the table. Boldin, Fitz, Breaston are locks, Urban is liked by Warner and Morey is a special teams ace. And what about Doucet? I think he's going to make it over Long.

The numbers game doesn't add up for Long at this point and I think if Garvin continues the way he has, Long's chances get even slimmer. I think he's being showcased right now so he can get a chance somewhere else.

 

[Cards Czar]

I also like all who say the Morey is a pro bowler and cannot be let go. Well he was a pro powler with Pitt and they let him go and we signed him.

Remember it is added value in what these players bring into the club.
Is Morey's added value more then garvins?
Is Garvins added value higher then Morey's.

That is the question that will be address later in the preseason.

 

[lauraw]

Garvin was stiff out there, stiff in the hips.. he looked pretty fast, but not Olympic-sized.. no fumbles, all kickoffs past the 30 1 past the 40. didnt look close to breaking it to me.. Much better than #28 last year on kickoffs, save for 1 run.. On punts he looked viable, with more practice.. As a gunner, he needs work; he overrun the ball and got taken out by the returner..Grade by me B-..

 

[conraddobler]

You can't coach speed.

He's a lock to play football, where I don't know but I hope it's here.

 

[Russ Smith]

Watch Hester return kicks, he does not wiggle out of tackles, he runs right past them, he of course eludes tackles but he doesnt elude them the way you want Garvin to. Hester eludes tacklers by running right past them and using what lane the coverage unit and his blockers give to him. He doesnt wiggle or run through tackles at all. There is not jucking and jiving in Hesters game, Hall was the only jucking and jiving return man that has made that work over a long period of time.

Hester's both quick and fast but one thing he does VERY well is change directions on a dime. He's not necessarily juking, but he's ridiculously good at getting the cover guy to go flat out one direction and then Hester suddenly cuts the other way and the guy overruns it and misses the tackle.

He's about the best in the NFL at that particular thing, Leon Washington with the Jets is another guy who can do that. It's a very rare trait most guys get going so fast one way they can't change direction the way Hester does.

 

[Russ Smith]

This adds nothing to the legitimate discussion, but I can't resist - does anyone else think of THIS guys whenever you see or hear the name "Garvin"?:

You must be registered for see images

Dick Garvin. Male Prostitute.

Fred Garvin.

 

[earthsci]

This adds nothing to the legitimate discussion, but I can't resist - does anyone else think of THIS guys whenever you see or hear the name "Garvin"?:

You must be registered for see images

Dick Garvin. Male Prostitute.

Fred. It's Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute.

 

[earthsci]

Fred Garvin.

:dcr:

 

[TruColor]

Fred. It's Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute.

Crap. Yeah - I was getting that confused with another character.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Here's a tough question to consider: "Is Sean Morey and his leadership, special team play, smarts etc. so essential as not to be expendible should Long or Garvin or Onrea Jones continue to come on like gangbusters?"

If I have to choose between Morey and Garvin, give me Morey unfortunately. Morey gets a free pass the next two years from me after the blocked punt that gave us the Dallas win.

If I have to choose between Long/Garvin/Jones, give me Garvin.