Gentry Fired

[Covert Rain]

Yeah? Give us examples of players who lobby for coaches outside of the organisation hours after their head coach was fired , not to mention on twitter instead of behind closed doors.

Not to mention after it was already announced they would promote someone from the staff for the rest of the season.

Gortat is a ******* that is all.

Ofcourse it's happened. LOL. You going to sit here and say that when players find out they don't lobby for assistants or other coaches the played for? Just because it's not reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen and I am sure I dig up a player or two.

You run your mouth more than Gortat...about Gortat.

That is all.

 

[Phrazbit]

Selling tickets/getting fans excited is "no reason"? I'm not following you.

Teams always blow sunshine up the butts of their fans, promote their own players even if they're not as good as such promotion would deserve, etc.

What else were the Suns to do? Sign him and say "well he's been pretty lousy, and we expect him to be lousy too, but we have to get to the NBA salary floor, so we thought we'd roll the dice on the small chance he works out."??

I mean, thats probably closer to the actual truth, but I can't imagine any NBA team being that honest.

Uh, no, the team was actually foolish enough to think Beasley was going to thrive. I really believe thats what they thought, which makes the end result all the more embarrassing. They didnt really leave themselves a lot of grey area when it came to their expectations for Beasley.

It wasnt "We think this is a good opportunity for him to get his career going and we are going to work on developing him"... signing him would still have been idiocy but at least that would have tempered some expectations. Instead they said "He is going to be the go-to scorer we have been needing for years and the fans will fall in love with this team".

 

[HooverDam]

If the Suns expected him to be lousy why did they show up at his door at midnight when free agency started? If they follow your reasoning, why did they sign him in the first place? It certainly wasn't some underhanded plan to get a good draft pick because we know from day one they wanted to get to the playoffs.

I already explained this, but Ill do it again:

The NBA has a salary floor, you have to get to. Beasely seems to have some potential, so if you give him a middling salary that helps you get to the floor, but won't hamstring your team, you can get a guy who MIGHT become good, but probably won't.

It was a low risk/high reward kind of deal. His contract is too big for his production this year, but its not killing the Suns either.

That doesn't mean they REALLY expected him to be a 'star' or 'go to guy'. They may have hoped he'd develop into that, but probably knew it wasn't extremely likely.

I'm not sure why that doesn't make sense.

 

[Phrazbit]

I already explained this, but Ill do it again:

The NBA has a salary floor, you have to get to. Beasely seems to have some potential, so if you give him a middling salary that helps you get to the floor, but won't hamstring your team, you can get a guy who MIGHT become good, but probably won't.

It was a low risk/high reward kind of deal. His contract is too big for his production this year, but its not killing the Suns either.

That doesn't mean they REALLY expected him to be a 'star' or 'go to guy'. They may have hoped he'd develop into that, but probably knew it wasn't extremely likely.

I'm not sure why that doesn't make sense.

If you're just trying to reach a salary floor you dont sign a guy to a 3 year deal. And its worth noting that 3 years is the amount of time you need to have a guy under contract to get their Bird Rights. It seems to me the Suns (stupidly) thought Beasley was infact a player to build around.

Also, its makes no sense that he was signed largely to meet the salary floor when he was the FIRST priority in free agency.

And Beasley's wretched presence DOES hamstring us in terms of cap. If there were some max player that the Suns chose to target this offseason we do not currently project to have max cap space. We are going to have to dump someone to clear space.

 

[Chaplin]

I already explained this, but Ill do it again:

The NBA has a salary floor, you have to get to. Beasely seems to have some potential, so if you give him a middling salary that helps you get to the floor, but won't hamstring your team, you can get a guy who MIGHT become good, but probably won't.

That doesn't fit with their quotes and their actions during the summer, since they were at his doorstep the first minute of free agency. If they thought so little of him, why go to all the trouble to sign him so quickly?

It was a low risk/high reward kind of deal. His contract is too big for his production this year, but its not killing the Suns either.

That doesn't mean they REALLY expected him to be a 'star' or 'go to guy'. They may have hoped he'd develop into that, but probably knew it wasn't extremely likely.

I'm not sure why that doesn't make sense.

And how do you know that?? NOTHING gave any indication that they thought that. In fact, that is really giving the organization more credit then they deserve. They screwed up signing the guy thinking he would be the star. Plain and simple. And it backfired in their faces.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And...? Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think it's a stretch that the organization thought Beasley would become a star with us.

people said Beasely was going to be crap the second he signed. that ain't hindsight, that's foresight Chap.

and any FO who thought Beasely could become a star for them was Stretch Freaking Armstrong. Minny couldn't give him away last year.

 

[Dr. Jones]

people said Beasely was going to be crap the second he signed. that ain't hindsight, that's foresight Chap.

and any FO who thought Beasely could become a star for them was Stretch Freaking Armstrong. Minny couldn't give him away last year.

These are seminal moments of stupidity on behalf of our new leaders. Thesmel would say that Beasley is a flea on the ass of the NBA yet our guys thought he could be remade and reformed here.

Some has to be held accountable for that. And it shouldn't be Gentry.

 

[Superbone]

Gortat is a ******* that is all.

When you judge others, you judge yourself.

 

[BC867]

That doesn't mean they REALLY expected him to be a 'star' or 'go to guy'. They may have hoped he'd develop into that, but probably knew it wasn't extremely likely.

I'm not sure why that doesn't make sense.

So you are saying that the FO "probably knew it wasn't extremely likely" that Beasley would be our go-to guy and had no Plan B.

We've signed a go-to guy who probably isn't going to make it, and when he doesn't, ZZZZZZZ! But, fans, we're going to make the playoffs.

That doesn't defend the incompetency of the Front Office. It points it out.

 

[Chaplin]

So you are saying that the FO "probably knew it wasn't extremely likely" that Beasley would be our go-to guy and had no Plan B.

We've signed a go-to guy who probably isn't going to make it, and when he doesn't, ZZZZZZZ! But, fans, we're going to make the playoffs.

That doesn't defend the incompetency of the Front Office. It points it out.

I don't care who you are. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. What exactly are we arguing? I think the front office made a monumental mistake signing Beasley. You guys agree, however you guys think they KNEW it was a mistake from the beginning. How does that make ANY sense at all? Funny thing is, ALL of you think it!

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't care who you are. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. What exactly are we arguing? I think the front office made a monumental mistake signing Beasley. You guys agree, however you guys think they KNEW it was a mistake from the beginning. How does that make ANY sense at all? Funny thing is, ALL of you think it!

Maybe I'm missing something here but I'm pretty sure you and BC867 are on the same side on this one.

Steve

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Good. Gentry is nothing special as a coach. A lifetime asst coach that should have never gotten the job in the first place. We got worst defensively under him and our guys have underachieved offensively this year. He can't stick to a rotation and he was limiting the impact that Dragic and Gortat could have on games. Not that I expected or wanted to be good this year but some sort of development would have been nice. Gentry was not doing that and he constantly hurt the team playing the bench 3-5 minutes longer than they should have late in games.

Obviously Babby and the rest of the front office should be fired too but that's for another day.

People that keep harping on Beasley need to realize that the contract we gave him is not that big of a deal and a hell of a lot better than the signings of Frye and Childress (who had little to no upside). Beasley is not going to be a star but he can help a team. I look forward to him proving that depending on how we play him for the rest of the year. There was a obvious disconnect between Beasley and Gentry that effected his play (I'm not saying it should have).

It's time to build our offense around Dragic and Gortat while giving younger guys like Beasley a shot to produce like they can. Telfair and Scola need to go along with Brown. They are not a part of the future and there is no reason for them to be playing over Johnson/Marshall/Beas.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't care who you are. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. What exactly are we arguing? I think the front office made a monumental mistake signing Beasley. You guys agree, however you guys think they KNEW it was a mistake from the beginning. How does that make ANY sense at all? Funny thing is, ALL of you think it!

Maybe I'm missing something here but I'm pretty sure you and BC867 are on the same side on this one.

Steve

Yeah, I think hoover is the only one who thinks our front office targeted Beasley for sadomasochistic purposes. And even if they did it still isnt a defense of the action.

Our management is grotesquely incompetent. Lon Babby has not impressed but at least he SAYS the right thing now and again, while Lance Blanks is probably the worst front office man since Isiah Thomas.

 

[Errntknght]

Something just occurred to me... perhaps the FO still thinks that Beasley can reformed or 'freed' up someway, so that he's a very good NBA starter. Since he's mostly looked like crap playing for Gentry, it must be Gentry's fault. Obvious solution, fire Gentry.

Its also obvious that if this is right they are far stupider than we've given them credit for so far.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Honestly the media, fans and the front office have made way too much of the Beasley signing and problems. That's been there since the day we signed him. Him signing with us is such a small thing compared to all the other mistakes that this organization has made.

July 14, 2010: Acquired F-G Josh Childress from Atlanta for a 2012 second-round draft pick. Acquired F Hedo Turkoglu from Toronto for G Leandro Barbosa and F Dwayne Jones.

(I'm not sure if Babby was involved because he wasnt hired yet but considering Hedo was a former client and Childress was a client at his old firm, I wouldn't be surprised. Anyways, both trades were bad from the start)

December 18, 2010

Traded Earl Clark, Jason Richardson and Hedo Turkoglu to the Orlando Magic for Vince Carter, Marcin Gortat, Mickael Pietrus, cash and a 2011 1st round draft pick (Nikola Mirotic).

(GREAT TRADE)

February 24, 2011

Traded Goran Dragic and a 2011 1st round draft pick to the Houston Rockets for Aaron Brooks.

(One of our dumbest trades ever. We traded a younger, better point guard AND a 1st round pick for Aaron Brooks. It made no sense at the time and was even more laughable after we signed Dragic a year and a half later. Just another example of us thinking this would help us contend rather than rebuild like we should have been doing)

June 23, 2011
Drafted Markieff Morris in the 1st round (13th pick) of the 2011 NBA Draft.

(Not going to complain. He does have upside and it was a position of need)


December 2011: Signing Grant Hill, Sebastian Telfair, Shannon Brown, and Michael Redd to 1 year contracts


(This just shows that we were delusional in thinking that we were a team that could compete instead of rebuilding like we should have)

June 28, 2012
Drafted Kendall Marshall in the 1st round (13th pick) of the 2012 NBA Draft.

(Not going to complain. He is a piss-poor shooter but a very good passer. It will take time and I wish we would have went after another position but it's ok)

July 11, 2012
Traded Steve Nash to the Los Angeles Lakers for a 2013 1st round draft pick, a 2013 2nd round draft pick, a 2014 2nd round draft pick and a 2015 1st round draft pick.

(I give all credit to Nash for facilitating this. Still a move that should have been made a long time ago when he had more value)

July 15, 2012
Signed Luis Scola as a free agent.

(It was a solid value signing but wasn't needed for a rebuilding team. I understand that you need vets but you can sign guys for the min or close to instead of paying a guy 13.5 million over the next 3 years. The only way this works out is if we can somehow get rid of him for a expiring contract and a pick. (Which is not the plan unfortunately))

July 19, 2012
Signed Goran Dragic as a free agent.

(Good deal and reasonable. Still we might have gotten him cheaper and kept a 1st rounder if we didn't trade him in the 1st place)

July 20, 2012
Signed Michael Beasley as a free agent.

(Looks bad but is a move that a rebuilding team makes. Not going to blame them for it and it can still turn out good)

July 27, 2012
As part of a 3-team trade, the Phoenix Suns traded Robin Lopez, Hakim Warrick and cash to the New Orleans Hornets; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Wesley Johnson and a future 1st round draft pick to the Phoenix Suns; the New Orleans Hornets traded a future 2nd round draft pick, a future 2nd round draft pick and a future 2nd round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves; and the New Orleans Hornets traded Jerome Dyson and Brad Miller to the Phoenix Suns.

(Great deal, Lopez would have left anyways and we get a future 1st along with Wes Johnson who was worth a shot)


Now 1 huge deal that we didn't make was signing Mayo because we wanted to rebuild around Dragic and Jared "****ing" Dudley. Just dumb especially for the price he could be had. Instead we tried to pay out the ass for Eric Gordon whose offer was a lock to get matched.

 

[Phrazbit]

Something just occurred to me... perhaps the FO still thinks that Beasley can reformed or 'freed' up someway, so that he's a very good NBA starter. Since he's mostly looked like crap playing for Gentry, it must be Gentry's fault. Obvious solution, fire Gentry.

Its also obvious that if this is right they are far stupider than we've given them credit for so far.

Its a false hope but I bet they're praying he can. Lance Blanks job is probably riding on Beasley finding a pulse. I doubt they actually blame Gentry for Beasley's failure... it probably has occured to them that Beas is just a freaking awful player, but they gotta do something to save their skins.

Firing Gentry is better (as in less damaging) than a panic trade for Rudy Gay or Monta Ellis... so I guess in that light we could be thankful.

 

[JCSunsfan]

All the speculation goes so many directions. I just cant make sense of this move. The explanations are all over the map from the front office.

 

[hcsilla]

B2B, that was a good summary, I agree with your evaluations.

About Beasley: yes, he is playing poorly, but the guy definitely has the talent that only few others have.

For instance vs. Milwaukee, I don't know if someone of you also remember but there was a possession in the 2nd quarter when Beasley tried to post-up Dunleavy, he went deeply into the post, help came, Beasley passed out, got back the ball for re-post, he turned around, with an explosive 1st drove to the basket.
He couldn't finish in strong traffic but it showed his offensive versatility against both slower PF's and not so strong SF's.

Next possession he drove alongside the baseline and gave a fantastic bounce pass between two defenders to Gortat for the lay-up.

Beasley is still a very talented and athletic scoring combo forward. He has flaws but I'm not sure that he can blame for everything in such a disfunctional and weak team like the Suns. We all knew that he needs patience and the right circumstances to succeed. I highly doubt that our FO would have thought that Beasley is a sure thing.

He was a gamble. He still is. It still may turn out to be a good one.

 

[HooverDam]

That doesn't defend the incompetency of the Front Office. It points it out.

Who said Im trying to defend their incompetency? I think theyre woefully incompetent.

Yeah, I think hoover is the only one who thinks our front office targeted Beasley for sadomasochistic purposes.

I dont know how youre gleaning that from what I wrote. one more time for clarity:

I think the Suns knew Beasley had talent and potentially could become a go to guy (he was drafted #2 overall after all and had some OK statistical PPG years). But they also knew it was very much not a sure thing. They took a VERY low risk on him, even by signing him to a 3 year deal.

The whole point of them showing up at midnight is irrelevant. They wanted to be the ones to try to crack the Beasley nut, as they likely knew other FAs weren't coming their way.

If our theory is "this front office is 100% convinced Beasley would be a star!" then they're so stupid I'm surprised they haven't falled in a manhole.

My thinking is they're incompetent sure...but thought "well maybe Beasley will work out, he very well may not, but this contract won't kill us if it doesn't work, its worth the try since we're screwed as is."

I don't see why this is so confusing.

 

[slinslin]

B2B, that was a good summary, I agree with your evaluations.

About Beasley: yes, he is playing poorly, but the guy definitely has the talent that only few others have.

For instance vs. Milwaukee, I don't know if someone of you also remember but there was a possession in the 2nd quarter when Beasley tried to post-up Dunleavy, he went deeply into the post, help came, Beasley passed out, got back the ball for re-post, he turned around, with an explosive 1st drove to the basket.
He couldn't finish in strong traffic but it showed his offensive versatility against both slower PF's and not so strong SF's.

Next possession he drove alongside the baseline and gave a fantastic bounce pass between two defenders to Gortat for the lay-up.

Beasley is still a very talented and athletic scoring combo forward. He has flaws but I'm not sure that he can blame for everything in such a disfunctional and weak team like the Suns. We all knew that he needs patience and the right circumstances to succeed. I highly doubt that our FO would have thought that Beasley is a sure thing.

He was a gamble. He still is. It still may turn out to be a good one.

Don't try with reason Robin Lopez was the devil last season now it is Beasley while everyone else almost gets a free pass.

 

[SweetD]

I liked Gentry but the guy had Steve Nash and a bunch of vets most of his time here. His lineups all year have been odd and way to many 4th quarter and spots were this team would just give up big leads. This team sucks right now tallent and coaching wise. It was best for both to split. I say lets see the younger ones play to see what We have or don't have.

I am with most I would like to see Blanks gone also, to many misses already.

 

[Phrazbit]

Don't try with reason Robin Lopez was the devil last season now it is Beasley while everyone else almost gets a free pass.

I dont know that there has been a single player to not get bashed on this board during the season. NO ONE is playing particularly well... except probably PJ Tucker. Everyone else is (at best) playing to their expectations or well below them. Beasley was the most hyped player before the year and he has turned out the be the worst player on the team and among the worst in the league.

There were a number of people (you among them) who thought Beasley would be a shoe-in to score 20 a night. I told you to do so he would have to shoot about 20 shots per night (turns out its more like 25). And for Beasley to mitigate the damage he does on the defensive end he would have to average a very efficient 30 a night. Beasley is an awful player, he was an awful player before he got here, "patience" will not make him less awful. You cant teach stupid and lazy players. Those are Beasley's defining traits on the court. He might show a flash here and there, even the worst players do, but 95% of what he does on the court is horrible.

There is no one on this roster above replacing, no one. But the Beasley signing exemplifies the stupidity and backwards thinking of our front office.

 

[Phrazbit]

Quote of the day:

"Luke Zeller is one of the best shooters in the world."

Lance Blanks

 

[WuRaider]

The roster is garbage but I'm indifferent to Gentry's firing. He's responsible for a lot of good things like the WCF trip and developing Goran's career. But the Gentry moment that bothered me the most was his lack of confidence after we lost game 5 in the WCF against the lakers (that artest rebound). They showed a clip of the game 6 practice and as the players huddled up

Gentry: If we're going down, we're going down fighting!

Nash: (Interjects because wtf coach). We're not going down. We're going to win this game and the series.

 

[hcsilla]

You cant teach stupid and lazy players. Those are Beasley's defining traits on the court. He might show a flash here and there, even the worst players do, but 95% of what he does on the court is horrible.

There is no one on this roster above replacing, no one. But the Beasley signing exemplifies the stupidity and backwards thinking of our front office.

That's too harsh.

Besides we did not loose anything with signing of Beasley. His contract is not that long and bad and it is highly doubtful that we could have spent our cap space on better targets.