Get Leinart Back... Seriously...

[Cardiac]

The one who I would really like to have back is Todd Haley....as head coach. He has done a masterful job in KC in all facets of the Head Coaching job. And unlike Whisenhunt, he is humble enough to have an offensive coordinator

Haley started to win this year due to the hiring of two outstanding coordinators. To think he hired Weiss & Crennel is just a bit niave.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4821761

I also miss Haley but he and Warner did not carry and drag Whiz to the SB.

 

[CardLogic]

Jake Plummer, anyone?

At this point, anyone is looking good!

 

[CardLogic]

...what they really have is an aces GM who landed TWO SB coordinators in one offseason.

Granted he lucked into them being available but still.


NO GM worth their salt alows the coach to pull the Matt fiasco and leave us with what we have, that just never happens to good teams or with good GM's, and if people don't see what the cause is, the problem is never going to be fixed.

Whiz can be a good coach too, but he needs a GM who will surround him with talent both coaching and on the field and stand up to him and back him down when it needs to be done and support him when he needs it too.

This organization has a history of letting the wrong person have all the power at the exact wrong time.

It starts and ends with the GM, give him the keys get a good one and let them work, then it flows down from there.

Haley started to win this year due to the hiring of two outstanding coordinators. To think he hired Weiss & Crennel is just a bit niave.

I also miss Haley but he and Warner did not carry and drag Whiz to the SB.

 

[Rivercard]

Worst coaching decision in Arizona Cardinal history, hands down. Not even close.

Yep. This season was extremely easy to predict the moment Matt was sent packing.

 

[Cardiac]

Living in KC I told everyone he'd be good but what they really have is an aces GM who landed TWO SB coordinators in one offseason.

Granted he lucked into them being available but still.

Haley is good but the Chiefs are as good as they are because they are amazingly coached and incidentally Haley's worst parts come from Whiz.

He nearly lost today going for it on two 4th downs instead of kicking the FG and dang near lost 13 to 10 in OT if a kick dosen't hit the uprights.

So as much as I love Haley he's not the reason KC is that good all of a sudden.

I agree with most of the above.

The moral of this story is that we need a GM, I've only said that for years, and while DG was here we defacto did have a decent one who could at least draft.

He's gone now and his players are dwindling off.

2006 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 10 Matt Leinart QB USC
2 41 Deuce Lutui G USC
3 72 Leonard Pope TE Georgia
4 107 Gabe Watson DT Michigan
5 142 Brandon Johnson LB Louisville
6 177 Jonathan Lewis DT Virginia Tech
7 218 Todd Watkins WR Brigham Young
2005 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 8 Antrel Rolle DB Miami (Fla.)
2 44 J.J. Arrington RB California
3 75 Eric Green DB Virginia Tech
3 95 Darryl Blackstock LB Virginia
4 111 Elton Brown G Virginia
5 168 Lance Mitchell LB Oklahoma
7 226 LeRon McCoy WR Indiana (PA)
2004 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
2 33 Karlos Dansby OLB Auburn
3 64 Darnell Dockett DT Florida State
4 100 Alex Stepanovich C Ohio State
5 135 Antonio Smith DE Oklahoma State
6 167 Nick Leckey C Kansas State
7 202 John Navarre


As you yourself posted anyone can get an occasional good draft choice. If we believe that DG soley ran the drafts then he gets credit for a fantastic 2004 draft. Well actually the grade has to be lowered since he passed on Phillip Rivers for Fitz. But I digress, after 04 his drafts were poor to below average.

Don't be fooled by the occasional good draft choice, every team has those but it's the overall batting average along with the FA pickups that defines any team and as long as we suck at that minus DG or someone like him we'll always sink back into suck.

NO GM worth their salt alows the coach to pull the Matt fiasco and leave us with what we have, that just never happens to good teams or with good GM's, and if people don't see what the cause is, the problem is never going to be fixed.

Whiz can be a good coach too, but he needs a GM who will surround him with talent both coaching and on the field and stand up to him and back him down when it needs to be done and support him when he needs it too.

This organization has a history of letting the wrong person have all the power at the exact wrong time.

It starts and ends with the GM, give him the keys get a good one and let them work, then it flows down from there.

DG did do some good things with this team. I can't and won't give him credit for what Whiz has accomplished.

 

[TheHopToad]

Kurt Warner 5 years*
Bertran Berry 6 years
Chike Okeafor 5 years
Karlos Dansby 6 years
Reggie Wells 7 years
Antrell Rolle 5 years
Anquan Boldin 7 years
Mike Gandy 3 years

* With Arizona

How many teams could lose that many experienced starters and not have a rough year?

I just wish certain people hadn't been running off at the mouth about how the team was going to be better because all the "me first" players were gone.

Hey.....you forgot Rackers!

 

[MadCardDisease]

The minute that Warner decided to retire was the begining of the end.

The options were extremely limited and to say otherwise is wishful thinking. I wanted us to trade for McNabb but even McNabb has looked insconsistant and has already gotten benched in favor of Rex "freaking" Grossman. Just be glad we passed on David Carr.

All the Cardinals had to choose from were a bunch of average joes and in many cases that is being nice. Lienart wasn't taking us anywhere. Neither is DA. Our rookies are rookies and ideally shouldn't see the field yet. The move to Hall was an act of desperation to see if Hall could somehow capture the magic. Well clearly Hall isn't ready. Anyone calling for Skelton should have their head examined. There is no way he is ready to play in the NFL.

This team wasn't ready for Warner's retirement. Managements plan B was based on the hope that Lienart would face college level competition again.

 

[kerouac9]

The minute that Warner decided to retire was the begining of the end.

The options were extremely limited and to say otherwise is wishful thinking. I wanted us to trade for McNabb but even McNabb has looked insconsistant and has already gotten benched in favor of Rex "freaking" Grossman. Just be glad we passed on David Carr.

All the Cardinals had to choose from were a bunch of average joes and in many cases that is being nice. Lienart wasn't taking us anywhere. Neither is DA. Our rookies are rookies and ideally shouldn't see the field yet. The move to Hall was an act of desperation to see if Hall could somehow capture the magic. Well clearly Hall isn't ready. Anyone calling for Skelton should have their head examined. There is no way he is ready to play in the NFL.

This team wasn't ready for Warner's retirement. Managements plan B was based on the hope that Lienart would face college level competition again.

Except probably to an NFC West Championship if he could play like the merely bad QB he was last year (including the Chicago and St. Louis games) and not the godawful QBs that we've put on the field this year.

Seriously: A QB with a rating 68 for the season would have brought us another NFC West banner. Seattle's team QB rating is 71.3 and they're alone in first place. Our defense is better than theirs, and our offense is probably better, too.

People may hate to visit the past, and that's why I resist posting in threads like this, but the guy with the career passer rating of 70.8 and the 2009 passer rating of 74.0 would have been leaps and bounds superior to the two guys that we've run out there.

Derek Anderson's career passer rating is 68.9. This year he's tossing at a 62.8 clip.

Max Hall's career passer rating is a sparkling 41.0.

Even with NO IMPROVEMENT WHATSOEVER from 2009--from an offense designed around him, from reps with the starters, from experience in the offense--this team would be 5-3 with #7 as the starter because Captain Checkdown wouldn't have thrown two pick-sixes yesterday and a bunch of terrible passes in Seattle.

This is just insanity.

 

[Duckjake]

Hey.....you forgot Rackers!

Time was running out and I just missed him.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Except probably to an NFC West Championship if he could play like the merely bad QB he was last year (including the Chicago and St. Louis games) and not the godawful QBs that we've put on the field this year.

Seriously: A QB with a rating 68 for the season would have brought us another NFC West banner. Seattle's team QB rating is 71.3 and they're alone in first place. Our defense is better than theirs, and our offense is probably better, too.

People may hate to visit the past, and that's why I resist posting in threads like this, but the guy with the career passer rating of 70.8 and the 2009 passer rating of 74.0 would have been leaps and bounds superior to the two guys that we've run out there.

Derek Anderson's career passer rating is 68.9. This year he's tossing at a 62.8 clip.

Max Hall's career passer rating is a sparkling 41.0.

Even with NO IMPROVEMENT WHATSOEVER from 2009--from an offense designed around him, from reps with the starters, from experience in the offense--this team would be 5-3 with #7 as the starter because Captain Checkdown wouldn't have thrown two pick-sixes yesterday and a bunch of terrible passes in Seattle.

This is just insanity.

Oh I agree that Hall doesn't belong in there. He is no where near ready. However to say that Leinart is leaps and bounds superior to DA is just plain silly.

Sucky vs Sucky still = Sucky no matter what. At least a sucky DA moves the chains when he isn't lazerbeaming a touch pass. With Leinart you've got nothing but three and outs.

 

[lobo]

The one who I would really like to have back is Todd Haley....as head coach. He has done a masterful job in KC in all facets of the Head Coaching job. And unlike Whisenhunt, he is humble enough to have an offensive coordinator

yeah, i would like him back too but let's not make him out like mr goody two shoes...he canned his first OC before the first snap of the ball

 

[conraddobler]

DG did do some good things with this team. I can't and won't give him credit for what Whiz has accomplished.

I don't necessarily disagree with you.

I didn't want to keep DG but a lot of our talent comes from his drafts even if some did stink, our apex talent was in there for the most part.

Coaching wise I credit Whiz with that, but that's different than player evaluaiton and drafting.

Ideally and believe it or not this does happen in the NFL, you want both solid coaching and solid drafting, it can be done, it just seems not by us at the same time.

The GM is ultimately in charge of quality in both areas, I think Whiz was a great hire, I think Haley was a great hire, after that as to coaching it's been a big dud.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh I agree that Hall doesn't belong in there. He is no where near ready. However to say that Leinart is leaps and bounds superior to DA is just plain silly.

Sucky vs Sucky still = Sucky no matter what. At least a sucky DA moves the chains when he isn't lazerbeaming a touch pass. With Leinart you've got nothing but three and outs.

Nothing but three-and-outs (which is a gross overstatement even of what #7 would have been able to do with no improvement over 2009) would be an improvement over what we've seen the past three weeks from the quarterbacking position. Sorry, but there's nothing in that argument that holds any water whatsoever.

With nothing but three-and-outs versus Seattle, we probably win. Same yesterday. Take 14 points off the board in yesterday's game, and we win.

#7 is a much better quarterback than either of the guys that we have on the roster. Even if he's only a C-, he's better than the F+ we started and the D+ who came out in relief.

 

[Cardiac]

I don't necessarily disagree with you.

I didn't want to keep DG but a lot of our talent comes from his drafts even if some did stink, our apex talent was in there for the most part.

Coaching wise I credit Whiz with that, but that's different than player evaluaiton and drafting.

Ideally and believe it or not this does happen in the NFL, you want both solid coaching and solid drafting, it can be done, it just seems not by us at the same time.

The GM is ultimately in charge of quality in both areas, I think Whiz was a great hire, I think Haley was a great hire, after that as to coaching it's been a big dud.

2009 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Beanie Wells RB Ohio State
2 63 Cody Brown DE Connecticut 3 95 Rashad Johnson DB Alabama
4 131 Greg Toler DB St. Paul's (VA)
5 167 Herman Johnson G Louisiana State
6 204 Will Davis LB Illinois
7 240 LaRod Stephens-Howling RB Pittsburgh
7 254 Trevor Canfield G Cincinnati 2008 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 16 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee State
2 50 Calais Campbell DE Miami (Fla.)
3 81 Early Doucet WR Louisiana State
4 116 Kenny Iwebema DE Iowa
5 149 Tim Hightower RB Richmond
6 185 Chris Harrington LB Texas A&M 7 225 Brandon Keith T Northern Iowa
2007 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 5 Levi Brown OT Penn State
2 33 Alan Branch DT Michigan
3 69 Buster Davis LB Florida State 5 142 Steve Breaston WR Michigan
7 215 Ben Patrick TE Delaware

The first 3 drafts during Whiz's tenure. 4 players that aren't still on the team.
Cody and Buster are the big misses. That's 2 misses in 3 years.

Many of us thought DRC and Beanie would be apex talents and they still might. Stevie Breaston is an outstanding talent. We could argue back and forth about how good the overall talent level is of many of these picks but in my mind these 3 drafts blow DG's drafts out of the water.

 

[Duckjake]

That is fairly normal for any team to have that many guys on the roster from the 3 most recent drafts. But most of the guys who were instrumental in getting the Cards to the SB and to the playoffs again the next season aren't on that list.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Worst coaching decision in Arizona Cardinal history, hands down. Not even close.

+1

 

[AzStevenCal]

7 out of those 8 were Dennis Green guys. Man, do I miss him right about now. The Cards sucked under DG, but at least they sucked with talent.

I keep trying to digest this comment but the bile overwhelms me.

I don't know what we have with Whiz. We're so far removed from the decision makers that we really don't know what brought about our current situation. The one thing we do know is that we went to a Super Bowl with Whiz and we went through a super meltdown with Denny. I'll take Ken W, at least the jury is still out on him.

Steve

 

[Treefiddy]

Time was running out and I just missed him.

LOL. You people are too serious face right now to have missed this gem.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Nothing but three-and-outs (which is a gross overstatement even of what #7 would have been able to do with no improvement over 2009) would be an improvement over what we've seen the past three weeks from the quarterbacking position. Sorry, but there's nothing in that argument that holds any water whatsoever.

With nothing but three-and-outs versus Seattle, we probably win. Same yesterday. Take 14 points off the board in yesterday's game, and we win.

#7 is a much better quarterback than either of the guys that we have on the roster. Even if he's only a C-, he's better than the F+ we started and the D+ who came out in relief.

Maybe you didn't see my last post but I agree with you that Lienart would've most likely had a better outing than Hall. However where I disagree with you is that he is leaps and bounds better than Anderson.

Need you be reminded of Leinarts stellar efforts to come in and close out games for Warner. Your man Leinart almost blew a 31-3 lead in Jax last year and Warner had to warm up and come back into the game. Yeah C- my arse. Leinart has a different kind of game from DA. However it's just a different kind of suck. They are both D+ if you ask me.

I will say this. Starting Hall cost us the game. If DA was in there or even your boy Leinart I think we win that game.

 

[nashman]

Leinart was hands down the best qb on the roster and it was still was of the most ridiculously bad decisions ever to cut him and go with the trash we have now. Anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better with his multiple years here and a better knowledge of the offense than any qb on the roster is just flat out delusional. Whiz screwed the team and the fans on this period! Don't talk him up all offseason then cut bait at the last minute and leave the team with garbage... And that's exactly what he did. Now you can forget about winning any division we will be lucky to not finish last and the genius whis is real close to losing the team and a whole lot of fans and support!

 

[cardpa]

2009 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Beanie Wells RB Ohio State
2 63 Cody Brown DE Connecticut 3 95 Rashad Johnson DB Alabama
4 131 Greg Toler DB St. Paul's (VA)
5 167 Herman Johnson G Louisiana State
6 204 Will Davis LB Illinois
7 240 LaRod Stephens-Howling RB Pittsburgh
7 254 Trevor Canfield G Cincinnati 2008 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 16 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee State
2 50 Calais Campbell DE Miami (Fla.)
3 81 Early Doucet WR Louisiana State
4 116 Kenny Iwebema DE Iowa
5 149 Tim Hightower RB Richmond
6 185 Chris Harrington LB Texas A&M 7 225 Brandon Keith T Northern Iowa
2007 - Arizona Cardinals
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 5 Levi Brown OT Penn State
2 33 Alan Branch DT Michigan
3 69 Buster Davis LB Florida State 5 142 Steve Breaston WR Michigan
7 215 Ben Patrick TE Delaware

The first 3 drafts during Whiz's tenure. 4 players that aren't still on the team.
Cody and Buster are the big misses. That's 2 misses in 3 years.

Many of us thought DRC and Beanie would be apex talents and they still might. Stevie Breaston is an outstanding talent. We could argue back and forth about how good the overall talent level is of many of these picks but in my mind these 3 drafts blow DG's drafts out of the water.

I have highlighted the players I think have made a major impact with the Cardinals. These guys are contributing on a consistent basis game in and game out, save THT and his fumbling problem.

The ones in Green Bold as you may notice are all of the upper round draft choices. You would like to think that these guys would be or are becoming consistent major contributors.

Looking at them I think most would agree that Levi, Branch, and Johnson should all be playing at a higher level than they are based on their draft position.

CC and DRC each had one good year and are pretty pedestrian this year.

Wells hasn't been able to beat out THT.

Doucet is hurt so much you can't count on him giving you 10 games a season never mind 16.

Taking them in as a sum total I think we can safely say that the overall grade of these players is at best a "C" or a "C+".

I wonder how that compares to other teams?

 

[Cardiac]

I have highlighted the players I think have made a major impact with the Cardinals. These guys are contributing on a consistent basis game in and game out, save THT and his fumbling problem.

The ones in Green Bold as you may notice are all of the upper round draft choices. You would like to think that these guys would be or are becoming consistent major contributors.

Looking at them I think most would agree that Levi, Branch, and Johnson should all be playing at a higher level than they are based on their draft position.

CC and DRC each had one good year and are pretty pedestrian this year.

Wells hasn't been able to beat out THT.

Doucet is hurt so much you can't count on him giving you 10 games a season never mind 16.

Taking them in as a sum total I think we can safely say that the overall grade of these players is at best a "C" or a "C+".

I wonder how that compares to other teams?

As I stated we could quibble over how each player is performing. We could also set up a poll for each player and have the board give them a grade and I bet that a lot of the grades would be all over the place.

My point is that DG was not better at drafting then Whiz (again assuming Graves doesn't do anything).

Many fans believe that if we just had a decent QB we would easily win the division. That in of itself tells me we have talent on this team and most of that has joined the team during Whiz's tenure.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Leinart was hands down the best qb on the roster and it was still was of the most ridiculously bad decisions ever to cut him and go with the trash we have now. Anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better with his multiple years here and a better knowledge of the offense than any qb on the roster is just flat out delusional. Whiz screwed the team and the fans on this period! Don't talk him up all offseason then cut bait at the last minute and leave the team with garbage... And that's exactly what he did. Now you can forget about winning any division we will be lucky to not finish last and the genius whis is real close to losing the team and a whole lot of fans and support!

I love it when someone tries this routine. Obviously, there are many of us that do not agree with you and at least one of us (me) who's quite convinced he isn't delusional.

I have no idea what Leinart would have done here. Truthfully, our QB's have played worse this season than Matt has typically played in the past but that proves nothing. IF this team really had quit on Matt even before the first regular season snap than I think it's the height of delusion to CONFIDENTLY state that he would outperform DA and Hall. Perhaps he would have but recent evidence suggests otherwise, IMO.

The Matt I watched play in preseason games this summer was a different player than the Leinart we've seen in the past. He made no effort to move the team until he was benched and even then he was at best mediocre against an undermanned Chicago defense. Even DA looked good against those guys.

Steve

 

[Fitz Rulz]

won't come back here as long as Whiz is here.

 

[kerouac9]

Maybe you didn't see my last post but I agree with you that Lienart would've most likely had a better outing than Hall. However where I disagree with you is that he is leaps and bounds better than Anderson.

Need you be reminded of Leinarts stellar efforts to come in and close out games for Warner. Your man Leinart almost blew a 31-3 lead in Jax last year and Warner had to warm up and come back into the game. Yeah C- my arse. Leinart has a different kind of game from DA. However it's just a different kind of suck. They are both D+ if you ask me.

I will say this. Starting Hall cost us the game. If DA was in there or even your boy Leinart I think we win that game.

You're being absolutely delusional here. #7 went 3/6 for 22 yards. That's what caused Ken Whisenhunt to pull the chain on him? Are you for real? Look again, champ: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20090...:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

#7 kneels down the ball and ends the game, which ends at 31-17.

I don't know what to do when the haters of #7 are so out of their gourd even now that he's gone that they don't remember the reality of him: He was an average quarterback.

This team would be 6-2 with an average quarterback. Derek Anderson was the worst quarterback in the NFL the last two years. Worse than Jamarcus Russell by no small measure.

Just to refresh your memory, THIS is the game where Warner had to come back in: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20091...:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

#7 has one attempt that goes in the books after his first advances the ball 19 yards down the field on a pass interference penalty (those always happen on bad passes). After two Beanie runs it's 3rd and 5 and #7 heaves the ball 20 yards downfield to Fitz and he gets picked off. The Bears put together a 3 play, 28-yard TD drive and the defense gives up back-to-back TDs once Warner left the field.

It's insane to point to a game where the D folded at the end (as they did all season) and #7 had two attempts and say the guy was just as bad as someone who was worse than Jamarcus Russell for two years.