Giannis vs Ayton / Middleton vs Bridges

[82CardsGrad]

In the wake of the Game 6 loss, I'm seeing so many here making, what I believe to be, improper comparisons... Ayton to Giannis and Bridges to Middleton. I took a look at Gianni's year when he was 22, which was his 4th year in the NBA. I did the same with Middleton, looking at his year when he was 24, which was also his 4th year in the NBA. See below and drawn your own conclusions. For me, I think it helps to keep things in perspective and shows the folly of these comparisons...

Giannis at 22 (4th Year) vs Ayton at 22 (3rd Year)

- Mins Played: 35.6 vs 30.7
- FGA: 15.7 vs 10
- FG%: 52% vs 63%
- Off Reb: 1.8 vs 3.3
- Tot Reb: 8.8 vs 10.5
- Assists: 5.4 vs 1.4
- Blocks: 1.9 vs 1.2
- PPG: 22.9 vs 14.4

Middleton at 24 (4th Year) vs Bridges at 24 (3rd Year)

- Mins Played: 36.1 vs 32.6
- FGA: 14.5 vs 9.3
- FG%: 44% vs 54%
- 3PA: 4.6 vs 4.4
- 3P%: 40% vs 43%
- Assists: 4.2 vs 2.1
- Steals: 1.7 vs 1.1
- PPG: 18.2 vs 13.5

 

[TJ]

Usage %

Ayton 18.2%
Giannis 28.3%

Giannis has been the primary go-to on offense since his 3rd season, while Ayton has never been. His usage was 4th on the team this season, behind Book, CP3 and Cam Payne (!).

 

[Dr. Jones]

Age & Maturity matters.

They were ready..... More mature....... Prepared for the playoff aggression and atmosphere.

We, unfortunately, were not.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Age & Maturity matters.

They were ready..... More mature....... Prepared for the playoff aggression and atmosphere.

We, unfortunately, were not.

we really didn’t handle the pressure well in three fourth quarters of tight games.

 

[Bufalay]

In the wake of the Game 6 loss, I'm seeing so many here making, what I believe to be, improper comparisons... Ayton to Giannis and Bridges to Middleton. I took a look at Gianni's year when he was 22, which was his 4th year in the NBA. I did the same with Middleton, looking at his year when he was 24, which was also his 4th year in the NBA. See below and drawn your own conclusions. For me, I think it helps to keep things in perspective and shows the folly of these comparisons...

Giannis at 22 (4th Year) vs Ayton at 22 (3rd Year)

- Mins Played: 35.6 vs 30.7
- FGA: 15.7 vs 10
- FG%: 52% vs 63%
- Off Reb: 1.8 vs 3.3
- Tot Reb: 8.8 vs 10.5
- Assists: 5.4 vs 1.4
- Blocks: 1.9 vs 1.2
- PPG: 22.9 vs 14.4

Middleton at 24 (4th Year) vs Bridges at 24 (3rd Year)

- Mins Played: 36.1 vs 32.6
- FGA: 14.5 vs 9.3
- FG%: 44% vs 54%
- 3PA: 4.6 vs 4.4
- 3P%: 40% vs 43%
- Assists: 4.2 vs 2.1
- Steals: 1.7 vs 1.1
- PPG: 18.2 vs 13.5

Why would you compare one team's first and second best players with another team's 3rd and 4th best players?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why would you compare one team's first and second best players with another team's 3rd and 4th best players?

yeah. I have no clue what this comparison is supposed to prove.

 

[Bufalay]

yeah. I have no clue what this comparison is supposed to prove.

By the way, compare away. Advanced stats show that Bridges' impact on the game is not that far behind Middleton's. Here are stats just from this season. Check out the win shares and VORP.

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM	VORP
1	Mikal Bridges	2020-21	24	72	2348	16.4	.667	.471	.196	3.7	11.1	7.5	8.8	1.6	2.4	7.3	14.9		5.4	2.6	8.0	.164		2.2	0.8	3.0	3.0
2	Khris Middleton	2020-21	29	68	2269	18.2	.588	.340	.220	2.6	15.7	9.4	23.2	1.5	0.4	13.1	25.0		4.1	2.2	6.4	.135		2.0	-0.7	1.3	1.9

 

[Bufalay]

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM	VORP
1	Giannis Antetokounmpo	2015-16	21	80	2823	18.8	.566	.108	.404	4.6	20.0	12.4	20.0	1.7	3.4	14.8	22.3		4.2	2.9	7.1	.121		1.3	0.7	2.1	2.9
2	Deandre Ayton	2020-21	22	69	2115	20.3	.653	.029	.252	12.4	26.3	19.5	6.8	1.0	3.4	11.9	18.2		5.3	3.1	8.4	.191		0.9	0.0	0.9	1.6

 

[GatorAZ]

Giannis was playing with incredible force and physicality from an early age. Ayton has a completely different mindset.

Middleton is a shot creator while Bridges is a 3&D role guy who can occasionally finish at the rim.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Giannis was playing with incredible force and physicality from an early age. Ayton has a completely different mindset.

Middleton is a shot creator while Bridges is a 3&D role guy who can occasionally finish at the rim.

buuuut VORP!!’

 

[Proximo]

I think the Middleton and Bridges comparison has the potential to be a good one.

I see no reason Mikal cant become a very similar player.

Ayton vs Giannis - don't see that one. Ayton is just 20 times more passive than Giannis, and I don't see that changing.

 

[Bufalay]

buuuut VORP!!’

buuuuut tortillas and george costanza and RBI!!!

 

[Bufalay]

Giannis was playing with incredible force and physicality from an early age. Ayton has a completely different mindset.

Middleton is a shot creator while Bridges is a 3&D role guy who can occasionally finish at the rim.

Yes, they are different players who impact the game in different ways.

There's no perfect way to compare such players, but there are numbers that try to capture a player's cumulative impact on a game. Bridges compares favorably to Middleton using such metrics.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Why would you compare one team's first and second best players with another team's 3rd and 4th best players?

LOL... great question!

 

[GatorAZ]

Yes, they are different players who impact the game in different ways.

There's no perfect way to compare such players, but there are numbers that try to capture a player's cumulative impact on a game. Bridges compares favorably to Middleton using such metrics.

I agree. I wasn’t quoting your stats but I clicked it and couldn’t erase it.

Bridges can turtle at times be he shot 53-43-91 in the finals. If you told me all 3 role wings would shoot so well in the finals I’d say we win in 5.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree. I wasn’t quoting your stats but I clicked it and couldn’t erase it.

Bridges can turtle at times be he shot 53-43-91 in the finals. If you told me all 3 role wings would shoot so well in the finals I’d say we win in 5.

sorry, but those stats are meaningless when you can so easily be taken out of the game by just staying on the corner three.

in the last four finals games he averaged 7.6 PPG. That’s pathetic. The moment the Bucks actually started guarding the three, Bridges had NO offensive game.

 

[Bufalay]

sorry, but those stats are meaningless when you can so easily be taken out of the game by just staying on the corner three.

in the last four finals games he averaged 7.6 PPG. That’s pathetic. The moment the Bucks actually started guarding the three, Bridges had NO offensive game.

You say easily, but taking shots away from Bridges came at a cost to the Bucks. Booker scored 40 points twice because they weren't helping on defense.

 

[Covert Rain]

yeah. I have no clue what this comparison is supposed to prove.

I think that was the point.

 

[Covert Rain]

we really didn’t handle the pressure well in three fourth quarters of tight games.

Our lack of experience shined though. They say the finals puts pressure on players like no other round. Monty even seemed to admit post game that our lack of experience hurt us.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You say easily, but taking shots away from Bridges came at a cost to the Bucks. Booker scored 40 points twice because they weren't helping on defense.

they won both games Booker went off. What was the cost? NOTHING. Same as when the Spurs decided to single cover Amare and stay on our shooters in 2005.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the Middleton and Bridges comparison has the potential to be a good one.

I see no reason Mikal cant become a very similar player.

Ayton vs Giannis - don't see that one. Ayton is just 20 times more passive than Giannis, and I don't see that changing.

And their games are just different. I don’t ever expect Ayton to initiate the offense at the top of the key and drive the ball. And needn’t do so in order to become a dominant force offensively.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes, they are different players who impact the game in different ways.

There's no perfect way to compare such players, but there are numbers that try to capture a player's cumulative impact on a game. Bridges compares favorably to Middleton using such metrics.

But that only works when you have complimentary players. Like a team full of bridges would get stomped bc no one could effectively initiate the offense or consistently get their own shot. That’s where a lot of advanced metrics come up short. That said, I’m not saying ignore those metrics - there’s true value there - but rather relying them solely in player comparison is a faulty line of analysis.

 

[Finito]

I’ve been seeing this all over the board but Giannis does this and Ayton can’t match him

I honestly think people don’t understand how special Giannis is. In a league that has had a ton of just physical freaks he’s at the top of the list of not damn close to the top.

the numbers support it Ayton actually did a really good job defensively on him but he shot almost 80% against everyone else lol.

 

[Bufalay]

But that only works when you have complimentary players. Like a team full of bridges would get stomped bc no one could effectively initiate the offense or consistently get their own shot. That’s where a lot of advanced metrics come up short. That said, I’m not saying ignore those metrics - there’s true value there - but rather relying them solely in player comparison is a faulty line of analysis.

A team full of Bridges would tie a team full of Middletons.

 

[Bufalay]

they won both games Booker went off. What was the cost? NOTHING. Same as when the Spurs decided to single cover Amare and stay on our shooters in 2005.

It cost them 40 points. I guess they could afford 40 points.

Just because I can afford my mortgage doesn't mean my house cost nothing.