Ginobili is brilliant

[The Man In Black]

Its just hoops Jagu...don't let my basketball knowledge intimidate you. I ain't saying I'm better, I'm just passing out information. You don't have to like me. You can choose to ignore me. I'll read what you post though, and I promise, after this post, unless you ask for a response...I won't post a response to you.

And for all the ref talk, we both know that the Lakers get the bulk of all questionable calls, but even if that's the case...THE TRUTH, is that good teams win in spite of bad calls. It can and has been done.

The Spurs are the last team that the Commissioner wants to see win the title again. They are Small Market and the lower ratings that come with it, they don't really have any outgoing pound your chest type personalities, they have a coach who doesn't care about media protocols all that much, and despite that... they persevere and just play basketball. Thank you U of Az great Sean Elliott for turning me into a Spurs fan.

 

[D-Dogg]

Ginobili is such a spaz that he makes all of his shots look more difficult than they are.

This...still, the guy makes some of the most insane shots ever.

You guys don't appreciate the absolute ridiculousness of Nash either, though. He also makes shots that has the opponents (my team) say..WTF..dude, nobody makes a herkey jerkey three like that. C'mon...but then he makes it 3 times a game, 14 times a series, every year. Ya gotta tip your cap to the unorthodox badassness of those guys.

Kobe, hate him or love him, is fundamentally sound. Dude is a jump shot "how-to" clinic. Every time, squared shoulders, turn, pump, whatever, always squares up...perfect follow through. He can't do the crap that Steve and Ginobli pull off. Kobe makes ridiculous shots, but they are almost always fundamentally sound with good form on good hangtime and power. Nash and Manu make the same ridiculous shots with crazy balance, off stance from weird angles. Great stuff.

 

[D-Dogg]

When Ainge came to the Suns I cheered for him but I never liked him. Now that he is gone I hate him again.

Good man. You, not that douche Danny Ainge.

 

[D-Dogg]

No it was not.



One step, hop step -> perfectly legal.

Yep, that is a perfectly legal move. LeBron has decent footwork, but he travels a lot on his bullrush drives, as he gathers the ball too early and gets a 2.5 step edge. Big deal. Sometimes though it is a 2.8 and a 3.5 and really blatant though.

Kobe also gets away with a couple, but he has exquisite footwork and I'll often rewind thinking he traveled and be shocked that he kept a pivot or a plant and hop or something like that.

Travelling in the NBA is "common" but complained about more than it happens. You can do some damn creative stuff with a pivot foot. Tonight Kobe pulled off an up and under without changing pivot foot that was crazy considering the amount of floor space he took up doing it.

Of course, if you counted the shuffle of the feet that EVERY player in the league does on catch as a step, everyone takes 3 steps (as they call you in High School and JuCO for). Big college and NBA, you can shuffle on the catch and land and set your plant feet.

 

[D-Dogg]

I do play basketball and after the two steps you have to shoot the ball. You can't come down with it.

So did you see the video? Because what the video showed was basically, for all intents and purposes, a power layup. Jump off a foot, land on two feet, up for a shot. Practice many of those power layup thingies when you were playing basketball?

And dude, I freaking HATE the lickfest the media puts on LeBronze and how they shine his crown for winning, well, nothing really. But that's not a travel.

 

[The Man In Black]

Travelling in the NBA is "common" but complained about more than it happens. You can do some damn creative stuff with a pivot foot.

Watch Nowitzki on his turnaround J. He drags it 4 inches from time to time.

 

[D-Dogg]

Watch Nowitzki on his turnaround J. He drags it 4 inches from time to time.

Again, difference between H.S. and the NBA.

Dragging a pivot foot from time to time...really? Come on...the fact that these guys even try to drag a pivot is impressive given the lax rules on the footwork at this level.

To argue travel calls is silly, with the amount of pure contact allowed, pushing off, using the off hand on penetration, push off dribbles, etc. 4 inches on a pivot foot drag from time to time? MIB, you are WAY better than that...and yeah I know who you are from Laker boards...and yes, you are better than that.

 

[slinslin]

Hakeem would have been an amazing goalie. Nash, Parker, and Ginobli would have been a line creative enough to make the Brazilians envious.

No he wouldn't he is way too big and thus not flexible enough. People would score through his legs and with ground balls all the time.

Most goalkeepers are about 6'2-6'5.

 

[jagu]

Yea Hakeem would probably be too slow to be a goalie and being 7 foot here would be a disadvantage.

 

[Bufalay]

No he wouldn't he is way too big and thus not flexible enough. People would score through his legs and with ground balls all the time.

Most goalkeepers are about 6'2-6'5.

But imagine if the goal was suspended 10 feet above the ground.

 

[elindholm]

IF Ginobili played for the Suns, would you want him to change his game, especially if the way he plays it, gets you a title or more?

It only requires a 1 word answer.

I can't answer in one word. My answer is, "I don't know." I wasn't happy with Bell's famed take-down of Bryant. I don't like the way Nash and Stoudemire complain when they aren't getting the calls they want. I never liked O'Neal's attitude, even when he was on the Suns.

I find Ginobili so distasteful that I don't think I'd ever want him on the Suns, even if it led to a title. When push came to shove, I might change my mind, but I'm certain that I would never like him as a player. The farthest I could go would be a grudging acceptance of what he brings.

Spurs fans who embrace Ginobili's antics turn my stomach.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Steve falls down on the defensive end trying to draw a charge. Big difference.

Steve falls down all the time on the offensive end.

 

[TucsonDevil]

...Ginobili's antics turn my stomach.

I agree with this.

I would like to say that I like playing above the slime and dirty tricks, however I loved and continue to love Raja's clothes line of the effeminate one (have you seen the recent photos?)

 

[Chaplin]

Steve falls down all the time on the offensive end.

That's because he's fouled so much. Never seen a superstar not get calls the way Steve Nash doesn't.

 

[Go Devils]

No it was not.



One step, hop step -> perfectly legal.

Looks like up and down to me = travel

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can't answer in one word. My answer is, "I don't know." I wasn't happy with Bell's famed take-down of Bryant. I don't like the way Nash and Stoudemire complain when they aren't getting the calls they want. I never liked O'Neal's attitude, even when he was on the Suns.

I find Ginobili so distasteful that I don't think I'd ever want him on the Suns, even if it led to a title. When push came to shove, I might change my mind, but I'm certain that I would never like him as a player. The farthest I could go would be a grudging acceptance of what he brings.

Spurs fans who embrace Ginobili's antics turn my stomach.

I felt the same way with Bell and Shaq. But, I can answer that question in one word. HELL NO. I realize that he is more than just an actor out there but the theatrics just turn my stomach. I am a Suns fan first and foremost and I generally try to like every player that puts on that uniform but Dennis Rodman and Manu Ginobili are the two players that come to mind that are clearly on the other side of that line.

What I can't answer though is how I would feel about Manu if he came up as a Suns player. I know that I would still have trouble with his antics but I'm not positive that I wouldn't rationalize his actions out of a sense of loyalty. I'd like to think I wouldn't but it's a tough call this far removed.

I grew up a Suns fan but the Spurs were always my second favorite team. Drafting and then re-acquiring Sean Elliot didn't hurt but it wasn't the only reason. I was supposed to be stationed at Alamo Air Base back in 1976 but instead ended up spending most of 9 months in a Brooke Army Medical Center hospital bed. We frequently were bussed to watch the Spurs play (gotta love free tickets) and I grew very fond of the team and the city. Manu changed all that for me. There is no team I dislike more than the Lakers but the Spurs aren't far behind.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I am a Suns fan first and foremost and I generally try to like every player that puts on that uniform but Dennis Rodman and Manu Ginobili are the two players that come to mind that are clearly on the other side of that line.

I've rethought this, and I've decided that my answer is No, winning a title would not be worth having Ginobili on the team. I'd rather take my chances with players who aren't complete slime.

I would have been fine with Rodman, though.

 

[Superbone]

So did you see the video? Because what the video showed was basically, for all intents and purposes, a power layup. Jump off a foot, land on two feet, up for a shot. Practice many of those power layup thingies when you were playing basketball?

And dude, I freaking HATE the lickfest the media puts on LeBronze and how they shine his crown for winning, well, nothing really. But that's not a travel.

Yeah, if you read my posts in this very thread, you would have seen that I agreed that the move in the video was legal. I even researched it on nba.com as I was not sure beforehand. You can take one step and land but not two which is what I said above.

No, I do not practice the power layup. It is not part of my game. But I might think about adding it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've rethought this, and I've decided that my answer is No, winning a title would not be worth having Ginobili on the team. I'd rather take my chances with players who aren't complete slime.

I would have been fine with Rodman, though.

Actually, it's kind of funny if you think about it but it was what Rodman did to the Spurs that left me unwilling to ever accept him in Phoenix. After leaving San Antonio he proceeded to make David Robinson and the Spurs the laughingstock of the league with a big assist from Jim Rhome.

Steve

 

[jagu]

I can't answer in one word. My answer is, "I don't know." I wasn't happy with Bell's famed take-down of Bryant. I don't like the way Nash and Stoudemire complain when they aren't getting the calls they want. I never liked O'Neal's attitude, even when he was on the Suns.

I find Ginobili so distasteful that I don't think I'd ever want him on the Suns, even if it led to a title. When push came to shove, I might change my mind, but I'm certain that I would never like him as a player. The farthest I could go would be a grudging acceptance of what he brings.

Spurs fans who embrace Ginobili's antics turn my stomach.

It's part of the Spurs game, flopping, whining, and corrupt referees lead to a lot of rings !

Ok I'm exaggerating there, I think Duncan is a great player and super intelligent. I still don't like him because he is a little too boring for me. I hate ginobili, I've never watched a game where he isn't crouched over with his hands up and begging the refs for a foul or "where was that foul!?" Loser.

 

[jagu]

Looks like up and down to me = travel

LOL @ that "hopstep." That's a little too high for me to call it a hop, its more like a jumpstep and I don't think I've ever seen a hopstep where the player jumps that high and puts it in. But hey it's Lebron so ... I'm not a big fan of Lebron, and now he has the supposed elbow injury that prevents him from going inside for the first 3 quarters but has no problems to turn it up whenever he wants to. It's a good excuse in the event you get eliminated.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ok I'm exaggerating there, I think Duncan is a great player and super intelligent. I still don't like him because he is a little too boring for me.

I could look past the things I dislike about Duncan. I suspect I'd view his antics much the same way I view Amare's (I ignore them and just enjoy the good things he does). Although his game isn't particularly exciting I enjoy the fluidity and consistency he brings to his position. One of the best to ever play the game and he never demands the spotlight, never gets arrested and never fails to prepare for the next game.

Steve

 

[Durrutix]

AZ Steve wrote:

"As I said before, there are a lot of things I like about Manu's game. I just don't care for the referee baiting. I don't like it when a Suns player does it (and they do) and I don't like it when an opponent does it. Manu does it more than any player I've ever seen and what's worse, he's perhaps the best at it also.

I know that times have changed but I can't escape my upbringing. We were taught that there was a purity to competition and Manu violates that sense of purity for me. I want the team that plays the best to win, not the team that "acts" the best."

THANK YOU.

I think everyone here respects Manu's tremendous ability, but some of us loathe the relentless ref baiting. Yes, all great players play the refs to a certain degree, but Manu should be playing soccer aka football, or perhaps acting on a soap. As soon as play-acting becomes more important than actual ability, you know you're in trouble. Manu befouls the sport of basketball. That's all there is to it. That and the rings. Because it works.

So to repeat: I don't actually blame Manu. I blame management for allowing and indeed supporting the flop.

P.S. sorry for the weird text; haven't quite figured out the style of this forum yet.

 

[illone]

Ginobilli is the type of player who I'd love if he was on the Suns.

But, he's not. So I hate him.

 

[The Man In Black]

Thanks for the honesty. I have no problem saying that Steve Nash is my favorite point guard. And when it comes to antics, no one has it more locked down than Chris Paul of The New Orleans Hornets.