Give The Nutty Professor Vince Young, a new stadium, and one year

[Timm Rosenbach]

and Denny will give you a Super Bowl appearance.

The Sunday night game showed me one thing above all else...We need a mobile quarterback with a strong arm to get the ball vertically up the field for Fitz and Quan to go up and get. Vince Young is the man, and I would almost rather have him than the mechanical immobile Leinart and certainly over the TREMENDOUSLY overrated Omar Jacobs (the sidearmed wonder who racks up the yards and TDs against subpar competition). This offense performs best with a QB who can do more than just stand in the pocket. Josh, however, just doesnt have the armstrength or the ability to see the field. Anybody who has watched Vince since his bowl game last year knows that he has the poise, the cannon for an arm and the speed to get out of the pocket. Give him one year under Denny, and we will not be sorry. The Good news is that it is looking like we are playing too well to have a shot at Leinart, but may have a shot at Vince. If not, there's always Debrickshaw

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I don't see Denny drafting a QB with the #1 pick. He'll pick a play maker, and it's still too early to see who the top 14-19 players are.

I also have the feeling that we sign two big free agents, the Bidwells splurge, just because of the new stadium. Probably a d-lineman and and maybe a runningback if Shipp and J.J. don't step it up.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I disagree. If Denny goes for a playmaker, it'll be a QB. If not, it'll be a run-stuffing NT or a Left Tackle. We already have playmakers on offense (Quan and Fitz) and D (Berry, Dansby, Wilson and Rolle). The only playmaker we need is behind center

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I disagree. If Denny goes for a playmaker, it'll be a QB. If not, it'll be a run-stuffing NT or a Left Tackle. We already have playmakers on offense (Quan and Fitz) and D (Berry, Dansby, Wilson and Rolle). The only playmaker we need is behind center

How can you consider a back-up center a playmaker?

 

[Redsz]

Vince Young is like Mike Vick lite. The guy is going to have to be coached up for a few seasons before he is going to do anything.

Having Fitz and Q at WR and having a guy like Young passing the ball seems like a complete waste.

 

[Lars the Red]

Vince Young? No. Not Vick lite, not Culpepper clone, not Leftwich, not a QB. You guys need to stop reading his stats and start watching him play. He is an amazing athlete, but he has horrible accuracy problems that make Josh look pinpoint. He, like Vick, can simply out run people at the collegiate level, but will get hurt trying to do the same in the pros. I don't believe he has even marginal vision in the passing game.

This kid has fewer throwing tools than Michael Bishop had. He won't be a viable QB in the league 5 years from now.

 

[Stout]

I don't see Denny drafting a QB with the #1 pick. He'll pick a play maker, and it's still too early to see who the top 14-19 players are.

Why not? He's done it before.

 

[Duckjake]

Vince Young? No. Not Vick lite, not Culpepper clone, not Leftwich, not a QB. You guys need to stop reading his stats and start watching him play. He is an amazing athlete, but he has horrible accuracy problems that make Josh look pinpoint. He, like Vick, can simply out run people at the collegiate level, but will get hurt trying to do the same in the pros. I don't believe he has even marginal vision in the passing game.

This kid has fewer throwing tools than Michael Bishop had. He won't be a viable QB in the league 5 years from now.

I don't think Vince will be available in the draft until 2007 anyway. Too many people are going to tell him the same things you have in your post so he'll most likely stay in school for his Sr. year.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Vince Young? No. Not Vick lite, not Culpepper clone, not Leftwich, not a QB. You guys need to stop reading his stats and start watching him play. He is an amazing athlete, but he has horrible accuracy problems that make Josh look pinpoint. He, like Vick, can simply out run people at the collegiate level, but will get hurt trying to do the same in the pros. I don't believe he has even marginal vision in the passing game.

This kid has fewer throwing tools than Michael Bishop had. He won't be a viable QB in the league 5 years from now.

Good call on the Michael Bishop comparison. Young could even get moved to WR in the NFL ala Hines Ward.Or be a HB/TE combo like Rod Bernstein. But a QB, no way.

 

[JeffGollin]

Bishop or Vick?

Vick.

I've always been skeptical of option QB's who can run but can't pass. But I've been watching Vince Young for 2 years and feel (a) he can run far better than most option guys (and most RB's) can run, (b) he can pass acceptably well and (c) continues to improve as a passer and has the upside to continue to get better.

He's got the knack. He'll be something special. We don't know if he'll be available when we draft (either this Spring or next). But I could see him playing within a mobile QB system behind McCown and eventually becoming our franchise guy in short order.

Lots of "ifs" here, but the idea of drafting Young is not such a crazy one.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Vince Young is next year's Matt Jones.The only difference is Jones would probably be a better NFL Qb than Young. In college,if JOnes had Young's talent around him, he'd be putting up similar stats.

 

[Russ Smith]

Vince Young? No. Not Vick lite, not Culpepper clone, not Leftwich, not a QB. You guys need to stop reading his stats and start watching him play. He is an amazing athlete, but he has horrible accuracy problems that make Josh look pinpoint. He, like Vick, can simply out run people at the collegiate level, but will get hurt trying to do the same in the pros. I don't believe he has even marginal vision in the passing game.

This kid has fewer throwing tools than Michael Bishop had. He won't be a viable QB in the league 5 years from now.

I agree and I'm a huge Young fan. He just hasn't progressed to where he's a viable NFL QB. He's gotten a lot better this year with his mechanics, he steps into throws now, but I'd be amazed if he's not moved to WR in the NFL.

 

[Lars the Red]

The reason I mentioned Bishop isn't because I thought he was a good QB, but because he was an athletic QB who's throwing skills were lightyears ahead of Young's. To this day I have never seen a hotter passer. Bishop had an absolute cannon and was reasonably accurate. Unfortunately, a ten cent head doesn't make it in the NFL.

Young has a strong arm, but isn't nearly as polished, and the problem with a guy that is that good of a runner is they rarely have the discipline to focus and make the tough throw, they just jump in to scamper mode and use their legs to try to make the play. That's a nice thing to fall back on, but you don't get away with that regularly over the long haul.

 

[Duckjake]

Vince Young is next year's Matt Jones.The only difference is Jones would probably be a better NFL Qb than Young. In college,if JOnes had Young's talent around him, he'd be putting up similar stats.

Having seen both of them play I'd have to disagree. Mainly because Texas hasn't had that much better talent than Arkansas. Texas' "great" talent is another urban myth. It comes from UT having a couple of first round talent guys every year, however if you look back over the past 5 years or so you'll see that they have very few, if any, guys go in the later rounds.

Texas talent is great at the top but not as deep as people think. This could be the first year since Mack Brown's arrival that Texas actually has the kind of talent to match their reputation.

It is why Texas has always seemed to struggle against other top 10 teams and why Texas guys tend to be undervalued as first round selections.

So if you think that Vince Young's stats come mainly from being surrounded by superior talent you are probably mistaken. Young has won several games almost on his own. Much like Derrick Johnson kept Texas overrated defenses tough the last couple of years.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Having seen both of them play I'd have to disagree. Mainly because Texas hasn't had that much better talent than Arkansas. Texas' "great" talent is another urban myth. It comes from UT having a couple of first round talent guys every year, however if you look back over the past 5 years or so you'll see that they have very few, if any, guys go in the later rounds.

Texas talent is great at the top but not as deep as people think. This could be the first year since Mack Brown's arrival that Texas actually has the kind of talent to match their reputation.

It is why Texas has always seemed to struggle against other top 10 teams and why Texas guys tend to be undervalued as first round selections.

So if you think that Vince Young's stats come mainly from being surrounded by superior talent you are probably mistaken. Young has won several games almost on his own. Much like Derrick Johnson kept Texas overrated defenses tough the last couple of years.

I'm not buying that argument.That's like saying Michigan State has the same talent as Ohio State.That's just not the case.I'm not knocking Arkansas but they just don't get the same type and amount of good players Texas gets. Leonard Davis,Mike Williams, Casey Hampton, Nathan Vasher, Quentin Jammer, Roy Williams, Chris Simms, Derrick JOhnson, Cedric Benson, Priest Holmes,Ricky Williams, the list goes on and on as guys who are in the NFL.That's is because they are more talented.The only guys that come to mind from Arkansas are Batman Carroll,Ken Hamlin,Matt Jones, and the OT Andrews. I'm sure there are alot more from both teams but Texas does have better talent than Arkansas. Young may prove me wrong but i don't think he'll be very good.To me, Chris Simms was a much better pro prospect.

 

[Lars the Red]

Having seen both of them play I'd have to disagree. Mainly because Texas hasn't had that much better talent than Arkansas. Texas' "great" talent is another urban myth. It comes from UT having a couple of first round talent guys every year, however if you look back over the past 5 years or so you'll see that they have very few, if any, guys go in the later rounds.

Texas talent is great at the top but not as deep as people think. This could be the first year since Mack Brown's arrival that Texas actually has the kind of talent to match their reputation.

It is why Texas has always seemed to struggle against other top 10 teams and why Texas guys tend to be undervalued as first round selections.

So if you think that Vince Young's stats come mainly from being surrounded by superior talent you are probably mistaken. Young has won several games almost on his own. Much like Derrick Johnson kept Texas overrated defenses tough the last couple of years.

Not as much talent? When your in the top 10 or 15 in the recruitnik databases every year, I think you've got some pretty good talent. Are they deep? They sign some pretty jumbo classes every year. Do their players go as high as one would expect in the draft? Probably not, but this has more to do with not being coached up and developed well than lack of talent and 26 guys on current rosters isn't exactly chicken feed.

Look, Houston Nutt does a decent job recruiting, but Arkansas sure isn't Texas from a talent standpoint.

That said, Young has done some amazing things on the field, much like a guy named Eric 'the quitter' Crouch did a few years back. He's done 90% of it with his legs, not his arm. The teams that have been beaten by Young have not been able to keep him from running wild. Force him to beat you with his arm and your in the driver's seat. I'm a Big 12 guy with the ESPN package and have watched more 'Horn ball than I care to. He's not some second coming, and neither was Mike Vick. Tough guys to control for 4 quarters, but that doesn't make them superior QBs.

Steve Young was known for his scrambling ability, especially early. John Elway could hurt you with his legs. I'd mention Jake Plummer, but that would completely screw up my point, which is, you would never put their running ability above their ability to throw the ball. Vick makes plays because he's just so stinkin' fast, not because he's throwing the ball so well that defenses are spread all over trying to tightly cover his receivers. Young makes plays in college because he's just that much more athletic than many of the people he faces. That isn't going to work with the big boys unless he improves enormously to become a much greater throwing threat.

 

[ajcardfan]

Not as much talent? When your in the top 10 or 15 in the recruitnik databases every year, I think you've got some pretty good talent. Are they deep? They sign some pretty jumbo classes every year. Do their players go as high as one would expect in the draft? Probably not, but this has more to do with not being coached up and developed well than lack of talent and 26 guys on current rosters isn't exactly chicken feed.

Look, Houston Nutt does a decent job recruiting, but Arkansas sure isn't Texas from a talent standpoint.

That said, Young has done some amazing things on the field, much like a guy named Eric 'the quitter' Crouch did a few years back. He's done 90% of it with his legs, not his arm. The teams that have been beaten by Young have not been able to keep him from running wild. Force him to beat you with his arm and your in the driver's seat. I'm a Big 12 guy with the ESPN package and have watched more 'Horn ball than I care to. He's not some second coming, and neither was Mike Vick. Tough guys to control for 4 quarters, but that doesn't make them superior QBs.

Steve Young was known for his scrambling ability, especially early. John Elway could hurt you with his legs. I'd mention Jake Plummer, but that would completely screw up my point, which is, you would never put their running ability above their ability to throw the ball. Vick makes plays because he's just so stinkin' fast, not because he's throwing the ball so well that defenses are spread all over trying to tightly cover his receivers. Young makes plays in college because he's just that much more athletic than many of the people he faces. That isn't going to work with the big boys unless he improves enormously to become a much greater throwing threat.

Texas has been in the top 5 for recruiting something like 8 years in a row. The last three or four years, their athleticism matches up with anybody. The SEC schools, Miami, Florida State, you name it. I don't think there's any doubt that Texas has been much, much closer to USC talentwise than Arkansas.

 

[Duckjake]

Texas has been in the top 5 for recruiting something like 8 years in a row. The last three or four years, their athleticism matches up with anybody. The SEC schools, Miami, Florida State, you name it. I don't think there's any doubt that Texas has been much, much closer to USC talentwise than Arkansas.

OU has had stellar recruiting classes and yet they were struggling this year and I don't think Bob Stoops coaching is the problem.

Since 1999 Texas has had 20 players drafted to the NFL. Arkansas had 21.
Michigan State by the way had 25! ASU has had more players drafted since '99 than Texas. Miami had more than that in just the last 3 drafts. Texas A&M has more players in the NFL than Texas does.

Of the 20 UTx guys drafted, 9 went in round 1. Texas talent has been top heavy for years.

Texas recruiting classes get ranked high because they have a couple of stellar players every year not because they are loaded with talent.

 

[ajcardfan]

OU has had stellar recruiting classes and yet they were struggling this year and I don't think Bob Stoops coaching is the problem.

Since 1999 Texas has had 20 players drafted to the NFL. Arkansas had 21.
Michigan State by the way had 25! ASU has had more players drafted since '99 than Texas. Miami had more than that in just the last 3 drafts. Texas A&M has more players in the NFL than Texas does.

Of the 20 UTx guys drafted, 9 went in round 1. Texas talent has been top heavy for years.

Texas recruiting classes get ranked high because they have a couple of stellar players every year not because they are loaded with talent.

Can I ask where you got your numbers? According to these numbers, Texas has averaged fewer than 3 players drafted a year! I'm not saying your lying, I just find that to be very, very surprising and I'd be interested in seeing those sorts of totals.

 

[Duckjake]

Can I ask where you got your numbers? According to these numbers, Texas has averaged fewer than 3 players drafted a year! I'm not saying your lying, I just find that to be very, very surprising and I'd be interested in seeing those sorts of totals.

They come from drafthistory.com they sort players drafted by year,position,college,team etc. Don't go there and look at old Cardinal drafts though it'll make you sick.

EDIT:

Texas draftees 1999-2005

Round One:

Benson,DJohnson,RoyWilliams,Marcus Tubbs,Mike Williams,QJammer,BIG,Hampton, and Ricky Williams.

Other rounds:
2nd Shaun Rogers
3rd Redding,Dockery,Simms (all in 2003)
4th Vasher,Babers,Wane McGarrity,Jay Humprhey
5th NONE
6th Bo Scaife, Cedric Woodard
7th Sloan Thomas

Priest Holmes and BJ Johnson were not drafted.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I want DeAngelo Williams, Rodrique Wright, or Gabe Watson.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I want DeAngelo Williams, Rodrique Wright, or Gabe Watson.

How is our boy DeAngelo doing this year? I haven't sen him play.I know he had 200+ against UTEP and that they have lost their starter and back-up QB's so far.But, i wonder if he has lost anything from the injury he had late last year.I hope not,he was the guy i wanted badly.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This post lost me at:

Josh, however, just doesnt have the armstrength

If you are going to make a point, at least make some vague attempt to be factually accurate. The one thing that McCown doesn't lack is arm strength.

 

[CronosCard]

"..And in this corner.."

OK, I saw Vince Young play today with commentary from Daniel Fouts QB, Pro Football Hall of Famer.. I wondered about his ability to pick up defenses and scemes.. Fouts was VERY impressed with Young's "Improved ability to read and react to defenses" and felt he would make a fine pro QB prospect.. Do any of us know more than fouts? I would say ........NO