Golden and Jones to DE, 4-3 confirmed

[MadCardDisease]

Golden is listed as 6 lbs lighter than Vernon?

Golden is 6'3" 260

Vernon is 6'2" 262

They look pretty similar to me with Golden being taller.

Here are several other 4-3 DEs with similar size to Golden:

Brandon Graham 6'2" 265
Demarcus Lawrence 6'3" 265
Jerry Hughes 6'2" 254
Solomon Thomas 6'2" 256
Olivier Vernon 6'2" 262
Vinny Curry 6'3" 266
Mario Addison 6'3 251
Dante Fowler Jr 6'3" 267
Cameron Wake 6'3" 263
Everson Griffen 6'3" 273

 

[Gandhi]

Two Bleacher Report fan boards, one NFL.com link that doesn’t say what you think it does, and Golden’s hometown newspaper, which says he’s a better fit at OLB.

So, good job?

I am pretty sure you wrote something to the extent that literally no one was talking about Golden being best as a defensive end. Don’t you agree with that? Did it say so in those articles? I am sorry that I apparently don’t read the same scouting reports that you do. I usually rely on game-footage of the prospects.

Look, it’s really not a problem that you were wrong. It’s cool. Just acknowledge it.

 

[Chopper0080]

If there was a "love button" I would've pushed it for this... Until then I will continue to find my wifes

You are free to push my love button as well. Though I am not fixed like jf-08 (http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/just-got-back-from-the-old-slit-tug-and-clip.28129/)

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree.......just if I am not mistaken, or if there are different 4-3 systems (which I plead ignorance on), isn't your WILB usually the smaller, faster, "cover" LB, and your SILB the bigger, and stronger "pass rush" option guy ?

Just semantics, BTW, I agree, your two Outside linebackers in this 4-3 will be Reddick, and Bucannon........thus the team taking a HUGE risk putting Josh Bynes as their MLB. Do not care if this is a passing league, or what not, MLB is key in this defense. Bynes has a lot to prove that he can handle that.

You SAM (strong side OLB) generally lines up over the TE. He generally has more cover responsibilities and is a bit bigger because he also has to fight off either the TE or OT on runs plays to his side. The WILL (weak side OLB) also has to cover RBs out of the backfield, but they play the run with more of a dip and avoid technique as they are normally the smallest LB on the field.

What many teams do now is keep their MIKE AND WILL LBs on the field for the entire game, and sub out their SAM for a nickel back in passing situations. This gives you more blitz options and keeps your best athletes on the field in theory.

 

[Chopper0080]

I know you don’t confuse the two systems, but a lot of posters and other fans does, even including the media. That's why I wrote a post about it originally.

Also, as you might notice I wrote that Dennis Allen with the Saints incorporated a lot of 3-4 concepts while Vic Fangio with the Bears incorporated a lot of 4-3 concepts. That’s is, in my opinion, not that the same as that they primarily ran those systems. Which they didn’t, by the way, because they ran a hybrid, like I wrote, but for the sake of simplicity let’s just call it that. You are right about Teryl Austin and the Lions. That was my mistake.

The post that I answered and that you quoted was about how Kerouac mentioned the difference about how to make acquisitions to the different schemes. I assume you agree that the players you highlighted like Calais Campbell, Damon Harrison, Kevin Minter, Robert Nkemdiche, Kareem Martin and Markus Golden changed from one perceived scheme to another, and I also assume that you would agree that it would be because the decision makers from the team that acquired them felt that it was a good idea?

It’s not a problem, by the way, if my post bothers you. We can just use some of the many other examples if you want.

I would agree that it all depends on the function of the position. A 3-4 DE and a 4-3 base DE have similar duties and body types. The same with a 1 technique and a nose tackle. ILBs in a 3-4 and a 4-3 can have similar roles, but the roles for OLBs is very different. The same goes with the rush DE and the 3 technique DT. You can make an argument that the most important positions are the ones that transition the least.

Your money spots in a 4-3 are ILB, WOLB, rush DE, and 3T DT. In a 3-4 it is three of the four LB spots, and maybe one DE.

 

[wa52lz]

Literally no one believed this. Chopper speaks for me on everything else.

Except maybe you???

"We're transitioning to a 4-3.

This guy is a great technician. A KVB-type. While Ray had the natural ability, Golden has the technical skill set to succeed if the physical stuff is good enough.

4-3 strong side DE."- Kerouac9 5/1/15
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/2015-2nd-round-pick-is-markus-golden-de.221394/page-4

 

[kerouac9]

Except maybe you???

"We're transitioning to a 4-3.

This guy is a great technician. A KVB-type. While Ray had the natural ability, Golden has the technical skill set to succeed if the physical stuff is good enough.

4-3 strong side DE."- Kerouac9 5/1/15
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/2015-2nd-round-pick-is-markus-golden-de.221394/page-4

This is fabulous. I'm dead.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[BigRedRage]

Except maybe you???

"We're transitioning to a 4-3.

This guy is a great technician. A KVB-type. While Ray had the natural ability, Golden has the technical skill set to succeed if the physical stuff is good enough.

4-3 strong side DE."- Kerouac9 5/1/15
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/2015-2nd-round-pick-is-markus-golden-de.221394/page-4

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Gandhi]

This is fabulous. I'm dead.

You shouldn’t make fun of wa52lz. He has only proved that you didn’t remember and thus was wrong. It’s really no big deal. We are all wrong sometimes. You should just take it as a man instead of taking it out on others.

 

[Gandhi]

I would agree that it all depends on the function of the position. A 3-4 DE and a 4-3 base DE have similar duties and body types. The same with a 1 technique and a nose tackle. ILBs in a 3-4 and a 4-3 can have similar roles, but the roles for OLBs is very different. The same goes with the rush DE and the 3 technique DT. You can make an argument that the most important positions are the ones that transition the least.

Your money spots in a 4-3 are ILB, WOLB, rush DE, and 3T DT. In a 3-4 it is three of the four LB spots, and maybe one DE.

We are agreeing on all of that. I wrote about it in the initial post. The only reason I wrote about the non-difference between the lineups at all was that people kept writing about it as if there actually was a difference.

 

[BigRedRage]

You shouldn’t make fun of wa52lz. He has only proved that you didn’t remember and thus was wrong. It’s really no big deal. We are all wrong sometimes. You should just take it as a man instead of taking it out on others.

I don't believe that was making fun of him, that was saying oh damn you are right.

 

[Gandhi]

I don't believe that was making fun of him, that was saying oh damn you are right.

Oh, okay. My bad then. I'm sorry, Kerouac.

 

[Ronin]

Kent Somers
@kentsomers

Chandler Jones says he has seen enough of new playbook to know he will have his hand in dirt some this year.

 

[Ronin]

Kyle Odegard

@Kyle_Odegard

Chandler Jones said he is at 265 pounds and feels good there. But if Steve Wilks wants him to add weight as he transitions to DE, Jones has no problem doing so.

 

[Ronin]

Kent Somers
@kentsomers

Reddick says at this point he’s an inside linebacker but added that is subject to change. Base defense is 4-3 vs 3-4 under Arians

 

[Stout]

Kent Somers
@kentsomers

Reddick says at this point he’s an inside linebacker but added that is subject to change. Base defense is 4-3 vs 3-4 under Arians

Reddick is nowhere near a 4-3 MLB.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Kent Somers
@kentsomers

Reddick says at this point he’s an inside linebacker but added that is subject to change. Base defense is 4-3 vs 3-4 under Arians

I guess then Buc at WILL and Bynes at SAM then

 

[MadCardDisease]

Reddick is nowhere near a 4-3 MLB.

He has the speed to get sideline to sideline. I guess the big question his can he make the calls and make sure everyone is in the right spot.

 

[Stout]

He has the speed to get sideline to sideline. I guess the big question his can he make the calls and make sure everyone is in the right spot.

He has the speed, but even if he could make the perfect calls, there ain't no way that little guy is a 4-3 MLB. Key word being "little". He doesn't have the size for it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He has the speed, but even if he could make the perfect calls, there ain't no way that little guy is a 4-3 MLB. Key word being "little". He doesn't have the size for it.

I agree. I don’t think he’s got the requisite sand in his pants to anchor the middle.

 

[Ronin]

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[oaken1]

He has the speed, but even if he could make the perfect calls, there ain't no way that little guy is a 4-3 MLB. Key word being "little". He doesn't have the size for it.

at 6'1" and 230 lbs... that aint horrible,...he is only 22 so he is gonna add weight anyway over the next couple years....15 pounds can make a huge difference at his height.
I mean...6'4" and 260 would be better... but most of those guys wont give you the outside pursuit that Reddick can.

IMO his biggest flaw at MLB will be instincts.... gonna take him a season or two to learn the position well so what instincts he has can kick in and help him perform.

 

[Stout]

at 6'1" and 230 lbs... that aint horrible,...he is only 22 so he is gonna add weight anyway over the next couple years....15 pounds can make a huge difference at his height.
I mean...6'4" and 260 would be better... but most of those guys wont give you the outside pursuit that Reddick can.

IMO his biggest flaw at MLB will be instincts.... gonna take him a season or two to learn the position well so what instincts he has can kick in and help him perform.

You can't just say he's young and can add 15 pounds as if it is a) Easy to do, b)Won't slow him down, c)Something that can help him this season--he's 230lbs--no getting around it.

 

[oaken1]

You can't just say he's young and can add 15 pounds as if it is a) Easy to do, b)Won't slow him down, c)Something that can help him this season--he's 230lbs--no getting around it.

if he needs weight he can add 10-15 pounds of good weight between now and opening day. Truth is, human males tend to develop physically until 25 so he is going to gain weight anyway between now and then.... it may or may not slow him down. My boy gained 20 pounds and got faster when he was playing going from 175 to 195 and increasing from 4.58 to 4.42... now he is 26 and weighs in at 225 and he says he is quicker now than he was then,...says he clocked a 4.38..... that last 30 pounds just came on him with age, he wasnt trying to gain... just the difference between 23 and 26

so I dunno...maybe your right and Reddick is gonna suck in the middle.... I just think he still has some opportunity there

be nice to have a guy like Tremaine Edmunds in there... dude is freak...looks like a neanderthal though...makes one wonder if he can learn the playbook... havent seen his wonderlic though so maybe he got a 50

 

[GuernseyCard]

at 6'1" and 230 lbs... that aint horrible,...he is only 22 so he is gonna add weight anyway over the next couple years....15 pounds can make a huge difference at his height.
I mean...6'4" and 260 would be better... but most of those guys wont give you the outside pursuit that Reddick can.

IMO his biggest flaw at MLB will be instincts.... gonna take him a season or two to learn the position well so what instincts he has can kick in and help him perform.

He was 237 at the Combine.

Doubt that he's lost any weight.