82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Ryanwb said:
And people wonder why Phoenix fans get a bad rap...
Gonzalez left out and upset
- Thread starter spikecop02
- Start date
And people wonder why Phoenix fans get a bad rap...
82CardsGrad said:And people wonder why Phoenix fans get a bad rap...
Give me a break.... I dislike 1 player, not the whole team. I'm not some transplant, of course you're obviously just a kid so what do you know
devilfan02
Registered
Stallion said:
Counsell is the last person who would complain, at least to the media. He'll take it like a man and he said so on Gambo and Ash this week. He said he realizes it's part of the game, it's happened to him in Florida when Luis Castillo took his spot and then again in Milwaukee when JJ Hardy took his spot. He said he will go wherever he is wanted but that he thinks the Dbacks have a shot this year and he would love to stick around. Counsell is the last guy we need to worry about in any way
AZZenny
Registered User
There you go again....
Fans can do any damn thing they please. I'm a devoted Diamondbacks' fan, have been since '98, kept my partial season tix when all around me abandoned theirs -- not because I was enjoying going to the games, but because I was loyal.
I for one will boo Gonzo his first time at the plate tonight, just to let him know he's displeasing some fans. 'Classy' gets questioned when he is consistently petty and insecure with the young players, and he always has been.
Fans can do any damn thing they please. I'm a devoted Diamondbacks' fan, have been since '98, kept my partial season tix when all around me abandoned theirs -- not because I was enjoying going to the games, but because I was loyal.
I for one will boo Gonzo his first time at the plate tonight, just to let him know he's displeasing some fans. 'Classy' gets questioned when he is consistently petty and insecure with the young players, and he always has been.
devilfan02
Registered
82CardsGrad said:And people wonder why Phoenix fans get a bad rap...
ryanw does have a point. IMO, PHX fans get a bad rap cause their boring and don't put enough pressure on their "stars." We are the complete opposite from cities like CHI, PHI, NY, BOS..... You go to a Dback game and you can't yell at an opposing player without getting glared at or told to sit down and shut up. Thats why any real Dback fan knows Chase should be renamed to "The Morgue." As long as you don't curse, you should be able to yell at whoever you want, whether it's Luis Gonzalez or Barry Bonds. We have absolutely zero home field advantage and it's a shame
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Ryanwb said:
Ryan - you know not of what you speak... Check my profile and you'll see that I am far from "just a kid"...
Moreover, I grew up 25 miles outside of Yankee Stadium, and have been a lifelong Yankee fan. Yankee fans catch a ton of grief outside NY, and in many cases it's justified, but what is commonly known is that there is not a more knowledgable and loyal fan base in the country.
You dislike the one player that has stuck it out with your team. The guy that won the only World Series this franchise has to its' credit... And why? Because he made a comment??
So I ask again - is it any wonder why Phoenix fans get such a bad rap??
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Give me a freaking break. This is not an islotaed inciddent, Gonzo has been complaining to whoever will listen to him about the treatment he's been receiving for months now as if someone who sucks at his job should be able to bitch when making $10 million a year. The steroid thing, hinting about wanting to play back in Tampa, and now this. If the guy doesn't want to be here, request a trade and we'll send his cancer ass packing for next to nothing or outright cut him. Fans have every right to jeer some has-been whose team is very close to the playoffs yet for some reason has taken it upon himself to screw things up by trying to satisfy his undeserved ego.82CardsGrad said:
And I also don't want to hear the playing the heart out nonsense. Gonzo's been caught by the camera half-assing his way around left field for much of the year, only Grace and Brenneman never call hinm on it for obvious reasons.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
AZZenny said:
Zenny - nobody is beyond reproach. But if the D-Backs have one guy who should be allowed some slack, it's Gonzo. He should be honored by D-Back fans for the player he's been, and the man he's been off the field...
You say this has been a consistent pattern with him?? How so??
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Yeah, you're right. We should be more like those Yankee fans who mercilessly boo the reigning AL MVP and starting All Star 3B. Or like the terrific Yankees fans who in the past booed Jeter and Bernie is the middle of slumps even though those two guys were much superior players than Gonzo could dream of and who handled things such as free agent pickups and trades that directrly affected them with class and professionalism.82CardsGrad said:
Again - give me a break.
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devilfan02
Registered
Espo said:
Good points. I know I'm walking a narrow line but I'm just trying to view this situation from all angles. I agree that Gonzo has lost it and I've been ready for him to leave since the start of last season. Horrible defender to go along with a now invisible bat.
I just figured that Moorad, who was his agent and close friend, at least could have been more straight forward with him. If I was Gonzo, I would prob be hurt by it as well. However, once Moorad took the FO office job, Gonzo should have realized that mixing friendship with biz rarely works. For him to go to the media on top of that was a big mistake. All good things come to an end and he has to suck it up and realize his run is over. He was a great Dback, brought this city our first championship, and he will always be beloved. Just don't cry your way out of town......
devilfan02
Registered
MaoTosiFanClub said:
They can't because Gonzo threw a hissy fit last year and complained about Thom busting his balls. The Dbacks told Thom to take it easy which is why he never says anything bad about Gonzo anymore. Don't you remeber when Gonzo said "maybe he should come outta the booth and grab a glove and we'll see how good he does..." Big difference Gonzo, you make 10 mill a year
devilfan02
Registered
82CardsGrad said:
Gonzo has always been known as a complainer in his time here. You can read all my posts on Gonzo- I appreciate all he's done for the Dbacks and Phoenix but his time is done. I'm not here to bash on Gonzo so I would consider myself neutral on this topic.... But for anyone to say Gonzo has no record of publicly complaining is absurd. There have been several incidents and now he's starting to cross the line
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
I'm amazed how so-called fans are dealing with Gonzo... In NY, we had one of the biggest egos/mouths to ever play in baseball (Reggie), and he is still revered and honored in NY. Why? Because he always, always gave 110% each time he took the field.
Phoenix fans have a long way to go towards understanding history, legacy and tradition - and how important all of that is in building sustained greatness...
I hate Dan Bickley, but here's a pretty darn good summary of the Gonzo situation...
Dan Bickley
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 18, 2006 12:00 AM
Once, they raised ticket prices on Fan Appreciation Day. Now they've alienated the best goodwill ambassador the franchise has ever known.
For all their accomplishments, the Diamondbacks have never been very skilled at public relations.
That must end with the impending divorce - this painful and inevitable separation with Luis Gonzalez.
"To be honest with you, I don't know what to expect from this organization any more," Gonzalez said.
In the twilight of his feel-good career, Gonzalez knows the deal. The Diamondbacks are going young. The unflappable Stephen Drew is the current attraction at Chase Field, especially when his older brother is sitting in the other dugout. The new era will be homegrown and the future can be found down on the farm, where the Diamondbacks' Triple-A affiliate in Tucson has won 56 of its past 78 games.
Finally, after a precipitous fall from grace, a wobbly organization is starting to regain its footing, and no clear-thinking franchise would spend $10 million to keep an aging outfielder with declining production on the payroll in 2007. Those are the cold, hard facts, and precisely the currency preferred by their talented general manager, Josh Byrnes.
But here's the deal: The Diamondbacks won a World Series in 2001. They rallied in the ninth inning against the Yankees' Mariano Rivera, who on Sunday recorded his 400th save and is being hailed as the best closer in baseball history. Chew on that for a moment, and the magnitude of the Valley's first major professional championship remains mind-boggling, to say the least.
Alas, don't make any plans for a grand reunion anytime soon. Almost all of the primary players from that team are gone, and far too many have left on bad terms.
Reggie Sanders and David Dellucci went away angry.
Matt Williams was unceremoniously dumped in the middle of a season.
After landing in New York, Randy Johnson ripped the Diamondbacks for an insulting contract offer.
And Curt Schilling's great escape forced the team into a terrible trade.
Then there was the clumsy handling of Jerry Colangelo, the former patriarch of the team who has yet to return to Chase Field since his forced departure.
Even though the 2001 team should forever be a touchstone for this franchise, a treasure chest of memories that should brighten the darkest of times, the reality is much different.
"This isn't a traditional, old-time team like the Yankees or the Red Sox where fans can relate and reminisce about Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams," Gonzalez said. "This is a fairly new team, yet (Craig Counsell) and I are like the Last of the Mohicans."
It's true, and precisely why Byrnes must handle the Gonzalez affair with great care and dexterity. No matter how prudent, the simple act of declining Gonzalez's option for 2007 will be painful and degrading to a proud athlete who has symbolized the franchise for so long.
An immediate trade could be the best scenario for everyone, although it would take a great deal of salesmanship from Byrnes on both sides of the ledger to make it happen. Either way, it's good to know that the new GM is treading with great care.
"Look into the future, and we're very optimistic," Byrnes said.
"Look in the past, and a lot of success and identity of this franchise is wrapped up in Luis Gonzalez. We'll certainly operate with that in mind."
As his power numbers have shriveled, Gonzalez has lost some of the backing that once made him the most popular player in purple. On the streets, there seems to be very little sympathy for his plight, even after Managing General Partner Ken Kendrick dropped Gonzalez in the middle of the steroids fiasco shrouding Major League Baseball.
Hence, there is no stifling pressure on the Diamondbacks to do the right thing, to care about human emotions. But let's not forget who Gonzalez is and what he's done to connect a baseball team with its community.
In Sunday's game against the Brewers, Gonzalez tied Willie Mays on the list for most career doubles. When the accomplishment was flashed on the scoreboard, the crowd went bonkers, making more noise than it had all season. The moment went deep with Gonzalez, who barely held back the tears.
"I was thinking, I want to keep moving up that list and I want to keep doing it here, but I don't know how many more times I'm going to get that kind of applause from the home fans," Gonzalez said. "What really got me was going out to left field, that little corner on both sides of the bullpen. There are familiar faces that I've seen for eight years. You may not know them by name, but you know them by face. And I take notice of that stuff because I take that stuff seriously. I was a fan once, too."
That was before he became an aging World Series hero refuting drug whispers, before he was feeling squeezed by a burgeoning youth movement. Let's hope there's some room left for a happy ending.
Phoenix fans have a long way to go towards understanding history, legacy and tradition - and how important all of that is in building sustained greatness...
I hate Dan Bickley, but here's a pretty darn good summary of the Gonzo situation...
Dan Bickley
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 18, 2006 12:00 AM
Once, they raised ticket prices on Fan Appreciation Day. Now they've alienated the best goodwill ambassador the franchise has ever known.
For all their accomplishments, the Diamondbacks have never been very skilled at public relations.
That must end with the impending divorce - this painful and inevitable separation with Luis Gonzalez.
"To be honest with you, I don't know what to expect from this organization any more," Gonzalez said.
In the twilight of his feel-good career, Gonzalez knows the deal. The Diamondbacks are going young. The unflappable Stephen Drew is the current attraction at Chase Field, especially when his older brother is sitting in the other dugout. The new era will be homegrown and the future can be found down on the farm, where the Diamondbacks' Triple-A affiliate in Tucson has won 56 of its past 78 games.
Finally, after a precipitous fall from grace, a wobbly organization is starting to regain its footing, and no clear-thinking franchise would spend $10 million to keep an aging outfielder with declining production on the payroll in 2007. Those are the cold, hard facts, and precisely the currency preferred by their talented general manager, Josh Byrnes.
But here's the deal: The Diamondbacks won a World Series in 2001. They rallied in the ninth inning against the Yankees' Mariano Rivera, who on Sunday recorded his 400th save and is being hailed as the best closer in baseball history. Chew on that for a moment, and the magnitude of the Valley's first major professional championship remains mind-boggling, to say the least.
Alas, don't make any plans for a grand reunion anytime soon. Almost all of the primary players from that team are gone, and far too many have left on bad terms.
Reggie Sanders and David Dellucci went away angry.
Matt Williams was unceremoniously dumped in the middle of a season.
After landing in New York, Randy Johnson ripped the Diamondbacks for an insulting contract offer.
And Curt Schilling's great escape forced the team into a terrible trade.
Then there was the clumsy handling of Jerry Colangelo, the former patriarch of the team who has yet to return to Chase Field since his forced departure.
Even though the 2001 team should forever be a touchstone for this franchise, a treasure chest of memories that should brighten the darkest of times, the reality is much different.
"This isn't a traditional, old-time team like the Yankees or the Red Sox where fans can relate and reminisce about Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams," Gonzalez said. "This is a fairly new team, yet (Craig Counsell) and I are like the Last of the Mohicans."
It's true, and precisely why Byrnes must handle the Gonzalez affair with great care and dexterity. No matter how prudent, the simple act of declining Gonzalez's option for 2007 will be painful and degrading to a proud athlete who has symbolized the franchise for so long.
An immediate trade could be the best scenario for everyone, although it would take a great deal of salesmanship from Byrnes on both sides of the ledger to make it happen. Either way, it's good to know that the new GM is treading with great care.
"Look into the future, and we're very optimistic," Byrnes said.
"Look in the past, and a lot of success and identity of this franchise is wrapped up in Luis Gonzalez. We'll certainly operate with that in mind."
As his power numbers have shriveled, Gonzalez has lost some of the backing that once made him the most popular player in purple. On the streets, there seems to be very little sympathy for his plight, even after Managing General Partner Ken Kendrick dropped Gonzalez in the middle of the steroids fiasco shrouding Major League Baseball.
Hence, there is no stifling pressure on the Diamondbacks to do the right thing, to care about human emotions. But let's not forget who Gonzalez is and what he's done to connect a baseball team with its community.
In Sunday's game against the Brewers, Gonzalez tied Willie Mays on the list for most career doubles. When the accomplishment was flashed on the scoreboard, the crowd went bonkers, making more noise than it had all season. The moment went deep with Gonzalez, who barely held back the tears.
"I was thinking, I want to keep moving up that list and I want to keep doing it here, but I don't know how many more times I'm going to get that kind of applause from the home fans," Gonzalez said. "What really got me was going out to left field, that little corner on both sides of the bullpen. There are familiar faces that I've seen for eight years. You may not know them by name, but you know them by face. And I take notice of that stuff because I take that stuff seriously. I was a fan once, too."
That was before he became an aging World Series hero refuting drug whispers, before he was feeling squeezed by a burgeoning youth movement. Let's hope there's some room left for a happy ending.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
82CardsGrad said:
Save your sanctimonious BS for your fellow Yankee fans.
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AZZenny
Registered User
Almost every time we've brought really promising position youngsters up, even if just to cover an injury, Gonzo makes a snippy comment -- 'trainers need to stock up on lollipops'. When we had the amazing baby-back run a few years ago, he said, 'I feel like someone should take them all out for an ice cream cone after the game' 'bunch of noisy kids all over the clubhouse' -- little digs, never names, and 'don't get too excited about kids with promise -- it's professional guys that get you wins' and along with Mantei, crushed the energy. You NEVER see Gonzo talking and joking with rookies in the dugout.
Much later on, Robby Hammock, who was one of the first of the kids to come up, was interviewed on radio about the little surge and he said 'It happened when we got enough young guys -- critical mass -- to change the atmosphere in the clubhouse. It was pretty negative and not always real accepting until then. But we got a bunch of us and playing started to be fun again.'
Gonzo also said several years ago in an interview that his greatest fear was being Wally Pipped. Guess what, Luis...
I appreciate Gonzo for the player he was, and I always have. But like some others guys, ummm...Matt Williams, Todd Stottlemyer, Mark Grace -- he refuses to acknowledge that he's on an age decline. Grace figured it out and shut up and tried to mentor Tracy and Hillenbrand at first base. Matty got canned and never said another word, licked his wounds, and came back to help the organization grow. Gonzo, like Stottlemyer, seems determined to tarnish the love by being ill-tempered and petty.
Maybe it would be nice for Moorad to fill him in, but why should Gonzo get special perks? That causes its own problems.
Much later on, Robby Hammock, who was one of the first of the kids to come up, was interviewed on radio about the little surge and he said 'It happened when we got enough young guys -- critical mass -- to change the atmosphere in the clubhouse. It was pretty negative and not always real accepting until then. But we got a bunch of us and playing started to be fun again.'
Gonzo also said several years ago in an interview that his greatest fear was being Wally Pipped. Guess what, Luis...
I appreciate Gonzo for the player he was, and I always have. But like some others guys, ummm...Matt Williams, Todd Stottlemyer, Mark Grace -- he refuses to acknowledge that he's on an age decline. Grace figured it out and shut up and tried to mentor Tracy and Hillenbrand at first base. Matty got canned and never said another word, licked his wounds, and came back to help the organization grow. Gonzo, like Stottlemyer, seems determined to tarnish the love by being ill-tempered and petty.
Maybe it would be nice for Moorad to fill him in, but why should Gonzo get special perks? That causes its own problems.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
MaoTosiFanClub said:
Save your sanctimonious BS for your fellow Yankee fans.
Will do...
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
AZZenny said:
Zenny - unless you are in the clubhouse, how would you know what Gonzo does with the youngsters? Has there been a steady amount of complaining from the young guys about the way Gonzo treats them?
And yes, it would be nice if Moorad gave some special treatment to Gonzo, as in clueing him in on strategy and plans... That's what well-run teams do with guys who have earned that right... It's not the end of the world by not doing it, but it sends the right message by doing so...
AZZenny
Registered User
Because I've heard him SAY all this out loud in interviews and then seen it printed in the paper so I know I heard him right the first time. Does that help? (I doubt it -- you have a Gonzo-man-love thing, and we can all respect that -- just don't insist those of us who have followed this team very closely since the inception have to share your infatuation or else be called 'bad fans'!)
I watch the dugout with binocs from my seats, and many times last summer saw Clayton, Tony Clark, Q sit and talk with Conor, saw Green chat with him and point things out on the field, and saw Gonzo repeatedly walk around him and never say word one to him. Plus, I know a couple people who are very close to some of the young players and to a couple now-departed veterans, and they gossip.
You probably rooted for the Yankees in '01, so your credibility in discussing how DBacks fans should view particular players is minimal anyhow. Gonzo didn't put the stake in your heart -- the TEAM did.
I watch the dugout with binocs from my seats, and many times last summer saw Clayton, Tony Clark, Q sit and talk with Conor, saw Green chat with him and point things out on the field, and saw Gonzo repeatedly walk around him and never say word one to him. Plus, I know a couple people who are very close to some of the young players and to a couple now-departed veterans, and they gossip.
You probably rooted for the Yankees in '01, so your credibility in discussing how DBacks fans should view particular players is minimal anyhow. Gonzo didn't put the stake in your heart -- the TEAM did.
devilfan02
Registered
82CardsGrad said:
That articles crap. Dan Bickley is a prick and NEVER writes anything good about any of the AZ sports franchises. Besides Delucci, how should we have handled any of those situations????? We didn't offer RJ a big contract because he's washed up (like Gonzo) and we had no plans of winning then. Schilling f'ed us and we had no other choice, Matt Williams was absolute garbage and had to go (I would compare it to Russ Ortiz, performance wise)... God, Bickley's infuriating
A Reggie Jackson comparison to Gonzo's is rediculous. First of all, when Reggies career was on a downworld spiral (like Gonzos now) I guarantee you and your Yankee fans were 100 times harder on him then some Dback fans are being on Gonzo. Time heals nearly everything which is why he's "revered and honored in NY." The same people, me included, who are critical of Gonzo at the moment will tell their kids/grandkids in 20-30 years that Gonzo was a great player and was the first true Dback (honored and revered).
Everyone on this board has respect for Gonzo and what he accomplished here. However, his time is up and the future is knocking on the door and he needs to realize that. His constant complaining doesn't help anything and he needs to tone it down, it's only making him look bad. For anyone not to realize this has no clue of the situation
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
AZZenny said:
Oh yea - I rooted for the Yanks in '01! And will always be a hard core Yankee fan. But I also support my home town team and want to see the D-backs create and sustain a winning tradition here in the desert!
IMO, Gonzo is being unfairly treated by you guys. And more importantly, Arizona needs to understand that players like Gonzo are rare. Will Webb, Drew, Q, Connor, Chad all be here in 3 years, 5 years?? Who knows... But for 8 years, Gonzo has given all he has to this franchise, all the while being a model citizen, giving a great deal of his time and money to the community...
Look - you guys can feel any way you want, I'm just telling you that it is dead wrong to jump all over a guy like Gonzo. And unless you hear complaints from the young guys themselves, I believe a guy like Gonzo has earned the right to receive the benefit of the doubt...
devilfan02
Registered
Sorry this is offtopic- AZZenny, where did the "Pat Tillman article" thread go? I saw you posted on it as well but it's vanished. I couldn't believe what Kerouc9 was saying. After I read that I wanted to fight someone...
82CardsGrad said:
So only if the young guys act as classlessly as Gonzo should there be any concern? Not sure I like that idea, maybe the young guys have enough brains/professionalism to not air the clubs dirty laundry in the midst of a race for the division crown.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
SunsTzu said:
Again - a player of Gonzo's stature deserves the benefit of the doubt...
