Good for Kevin!

[daves]

- Same guy that brought Grimm in and pays him over one mill a season

Yep, terrible move.

- Same guy that Brought the great Kevin Kolb in.
- Same guy that brought in Derek Anderson

Oh, those were 100% Whisenhunt's ideas? Good to know.

- Same guy that could't see that Warner was better than Leinart even though the likes of you and I could clearly see Warner was the better qb for this team (as I recall both you and I and countless others stated as much back then)

I think you have this backwards - Whisenhunt DID see that Warner was better, that's why he had him play and eventually start even though the vast majority of people were saying that Warner was washed up and the Cardinals had to hand over the reigns to Lienart, the god-send who miraculously fell into the team's lap in the draft.

- Same guy couldn't convince management to close the deal on Manning
- Same guy
- Same guy who couldn't convince management to keep Dansby after they screwed up not extending him and rolle (who I don't like anyway) to resign

Yep, that's all on Whisenhunt. I heard that management really wanted Manning but Whis didn't, so management tried to get him but didn't really try very hard. And likewise management really wanted Dansby but failing to re-sign him is all on Whis.

- Same guy who can't call an effective game plan to save his life
- Same guy who continually fails to make adequate half-time adujstments

Yep, that was all in evidence in the Super Bowl.

And in the past season, when the Cardinals scored almost twice as many points after halftime as before, and allowed 15% fewer points after halftime than before.

- Same guy that brought in Joey Porter, enough said
- Same guy who brought us William Gay
- Same guy who lied to Boldin(ill believe Boldin on this) and thus began the fall of the might cards
- Same guy who drafted FLoyd over Melvin Ingram
- Oh yeah, same guy who drafted Levi "Shane's pick" Brown over Adrian Peterson
- Same guy who continually fields a team that is emotionally dead at the most inopportune moments
- I could go on, but frankly I'm getting tired of typing.

Me too. Not that Whisenhunt is or should be immune to criticism, but looks as though you've decided to force all the data to support your foregone conclusion, even when it directly contradicts it.

...dave

 

[WildBB]

I agree but reverse the situation and I'm pretty sure Dockett would have jumped at the chance to make that same kind of comment about an Oakland QB (Palmer or Leinart). I've never understood the need to talk trash to or about others but we're all a product of the environment we grew up in. This kind of stuff just wasn't done 40 or 50 years ago but it's become almost routine.

Steve

No, you left it out on the field then shut it. You definitely didn't make a social media comment or worse to reporters about anothers lacking toughness or playing scared. All that mattered was out on the field. Those days seem long past for too many athletes and others.

 

[Cardiac]

Good stuff Cardiac as usual!

Thanks Bud.

 

[daves]

I think there is some truth to what Kelly said, but at the same time why does Kelly feel he needs to talk about it as a professional (Kelly sounds like a highschool kid making that comment)? Really, come across like the dude has his own insecurities as well about fear or why would he bring it up and the Raiders would be better served worrying about their own level of toughness.

During the game broadcast (i was watching online, where i had to endure the Raiders announcers) this was presented as something Kelly was overheard spontaneously saying to his coaches as he approached the sideline - not something that he made an effort to bring up in public (e.g. via a tweet). He may have been asked about it and subsequently repeated it or elaborated on it (i dunno whether he did or didn't), but initially this was just Kelly telling his own team what he had just seen on the field.

...dave

 

[red desert]

Thanks Bud.

Get a room already.

One losing season you say. 8-8 is not a good year from where i sit. Especially the manner in which they came and against the weakest division in the NFL. That's the truth, like it or not. So you can consider 8-8 a success, i do not.

 

[Phrazbit]

Get a room already.

One losing season you say. 8-8 is not a good year from where i sit. Especially the manner in which they came and against the weakest division in the NFL. That's the truth, like it or not. So you can consider 8-8 a success, i do not.

With the exception of Whiz's tenure a 8-8 season for the Cards is reason to throw a parade.

I question some of his personnel choices, but as a coach I dont think he is easily replaced.

 

[Cardiac]

Get a room already.

One losing season you say. 8-8 is not a good year from where i sit. Especially the manner in which they came and against the weakest division in the NFL. That's the truth, like it or not. So you can consider 8-8 a success, i do not.

I don't recall saying anything about an 8-8 record but pointed out Whiz's outstanding playoff winning record.

Since you do bring it up I will go with what Phrazbit posted.

With the exception of Whiz's tenure a 8-8 season for the Cards is reason to throw a parade.

I question some of his personnel choices, but as a coach I dont think he is easily replaced.

I agree with the exception that I think most of us now have the mindset that making the playoffs is when we will throw our parades. That's how much the culture and expectations have changed.

The difference being that based on circumstances a 8-8 season doesn't automatically put Whiz on the hot seat. I agree that Whiz won't easily be replaced.

 

[red desert]

Another illustration by which judge wiz:

Levi Brown goes down (not a big loss in my book) and who does the coaching staff have to replace him:

Batiste and D.J. Young.

We're talking about the Left Tackle position, folks. Left Tackle.

 

[Shane]

Another illustration by which judge wiz:

Levi Brown goes down (not a big loss in my book) and who does the coaching staff have to replace him:

Batiste and D.J. Young.

We're talking about the Left Tackle position, folks. Left Tackle.

Insert 98% of other teams in the NFL and you have same situation. Nice try. Bridges can play LT FYI.

 

[red desert]

Insert 98% of other teams in the NFL and you have same situation. Nice try. Bridges can play LT FYI.

So can you and I, but can we play it well at the NFL level? That's the question.

Bridges had done it for a short stint, we all saw the Viking game. Question is can he do the job at a high level for the rest of the season? We shall see.

But you better go tell Wiz about our little secret, because on the Official Cardinal website he is giving Young and Batiste first shot.

Go figure.

 

[red desert]

Insert 98% of other teams in the NFL and you have same situation. Nice try. Bridges can play LT FYI.

Simply not true. About 98% other teams.

 

[Shane]

So can you and I, but can we play it well at the NFL level? That's the question.

Bridges had done it for a short stint, we all saw the Viking game. Question is can he do the job at a high level for the rest of the season? We shall see.

But you better go tell Wiz about our little secret, because on the Official Cardinal website he is giving Young and Batiste first shot.

Go figure.

As he should. Nothing wrong with testing those guys.

 

[Shane]

Simply not true.

Really you name me the teams that have high Quality NFL LT's sitting on the bench?

 

[red desert]

As he should. Nothing wrong with testing those guys.

WTF??? We are two freaking games from the regular season!!! If you really believe that you are as delusional as Wiz.

 

[oaken1]

I have never been a wiz fan....I have a cousin who plays for pitt and is good friends with rapelisberger,...wiz was not well liked nor did he "develop" ben according to what I hear.

But, I AM a Cardinals fan.....we have two division championships,...a conference championship,...under wis.....some may argue those wins came with denny greens players, and I may agree...but denny green did not win a division title with them....wis did.
as much as I may piss and moan over some personnel decisions,....and MANY in game calls......I would be highly disappointed if wis were fired anytime soon.
I dont like the dude. But the attitude surrounding this team has changed immensely for the better over the past five seasons...maybe wis didnt do it, maybe it was mikey B....but it didnt happen before wis got here either.

I do not like him, I believe that agreeing to play for him is a QB's version of five round russian roulette, but I respect the man as a head coach. The team may not always come out of the gates firing on all cylinders, but they never quit, they fight back, they scratch out wins, they play for their coach...
I would respect him far more if he would hire a QB guru and then stay hands off.....
My suggestion is lets allow him his choice this off season...get his own first round top notch QB prospect,...then a couple seasons to groom the kid into what we need.
if all that happens, and we still go .500.....then fire him.

 

[red desert]

Really you name me the teams that have high Quality NFL LT's sitting on the bench?

We don't need high quality, we just need competence. There are many competent LT backups in the NFL.

Just not in the traveling circus that's in Arizona.

Kidding. Just messing with you.

 

[Shane]

I have never been a wiz fan....I have a cousin who plays for pitt and is good friends with rapelisberger,...wiz was not well liked nor did he "develop" ben according to what I hear.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. No secret league wide the two didnt get along. Now your getting it from a buddy of Ben? Well no freaking kidding! What would you expect? Sorry I wouldnt take a character endorsement from Ben EVER!

 

[splitsecond]

I have never been a wiz fan....I have a cousin who plays for pitt and is good friends with rapelisberger,...wiz was not well liked nor did he "develop" ben according to what I hear.

Sorry, this is completely bunk. I lived in Pittsburgh when Ben and Whiz were both there, and I saw Big Bum out and about all the time. Ben hates Whiz because Ben is a bum and enjoys being a bum. Whiz doesn't put up with that. Why do you think everyone was freaking before OTA's even started that Ben and Haley were going to hate each other? Because Big Bum HATES hard work and accountability. He thinks he can get by on talent alone, and to an extent he is correct, except that it is a poor leadership example to do so.

But yeah, Whiz must be so hated by everyone in Pittsburgh. To the point that the steelers had to BLOCK him from interviewing Keith Butler, because they knew he could land him like he has landed every single position coach he wanted out of Pittsburgh. Yes, Whiz is so hated he is able to convince guys to leave one of the most storied and consistent football clubs, with one of the best ownership groups and pretty much free reign over an entire city to come to the CARDINALS, a club with a history of hapless ownership and piss poor management.

Sorry, not even close to a reality. But I am not surprised to hear that floating around Pittsburgh, Yinzers will defend Big Bum til he dies or ends up in prison.

 

[oaken1]

Sorry, this is completely bunk. I lived in Pittsburgh when Ben and Whiz were both there, and I saw Big Bum out and about all the time. Ben hates Whiz because Ben is a bum and enjoys being a bum. Whiz doesn't put up with that. Why do you think everyone was freaking before OTA's even started that Ben and Haley were going to hate each other? Because Big Bum HATES hard work and accountability. He thinks he can get by on talent alone, and to an extent he is correct, except that it is a poor leadership example to do so.

But yeah, Whiz must be so hated by everyone in Pittsburgh. To the point that the steelers had to BLOCK him from interviewing Keith Butler, because they knew he could land him like he has landed every single position coach he wanted out of Pittsburgh. Yes, Whiz is so hated he is able to convince guys to leave one of the most storied and consistent football clubs, with one of the best ownership groups and pretty much free reign over an entire city to come to the CARDINALS, a club with a history of hapless ownership and piss poor management.

Sorry, not even close to a reality. But I am not surprised to hear that floating around Pittsburgh, Yinzers will defend Big Bum til he dies or ends up in prison.

dont know what a yinzer is, and I am in no way defending ben...cant stand the guy....but I do however respect the man I heard from....grain of salt, dust in the wind, whatever

 

[red desert]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. No secret league wide the two didnt get along. Now your getting it from a buddy of Ben? Well no freaking kidding! What would you expect? Sorry I wouldnt take a character endorsement from Ben EVER!

Therein is the the deficiency with your feelings about Wiz. You are allowing your perception of his character to cloud your judgment of his coaching skills.

IF we could trade Big Ben for Kolb you would probably say NO!! He has bad character and Kolb stands up for himself when his manhood is attacked.

Here's how I see it.

Wiz served a purpose here in AZ. He caught lighting in a bottle with Warner, but Wiz does deserve credit for our success in those two years as well. OF course he does. But Warner retired and took the magic that we as Cardinals fans experienced with him. It wasn't Wiz, it was Warner.

Okay.

But what has Wiz done since then? As a fan of close to 40 years I don't care to compare today to the past. I am not happy with 8-8 because we have sucked for the last whatever decades. I want out Cardinals to win. And to win more than they lose. And to make the playoffs. And to go to the Super Bowl. And so forth...

So when the team is not doing that, and lacks identity, and has a coach still using Warner and the Super Bowl run of a few years back as the proof that he is a good coach, uhm, no thank you. Time for him to go. I don't dislike him, I just think he is not the best coach for the team any longer.

 

[red desert]

dont know what a yinzer is, and I am in no way defending ben...cant stand the guy....but I do however respect the man I heard from....grain of salt, dust in the wind, whatever

As well you should. You know him. Therefore you know what you're talking about.

 

[splitsecond]

dont know what a yinzer is, and I am in no way defending ben...cant stand the guy....but I do however respect the man I heard from....grain of salt, dust in the wind, whatever

Oh I am not saying he hasn't heard that, but I do believe it's a bit of misinformation he is relying on. As far as I know Ben is the only guy left in Pittsburgh he may not like Whiz.

 

[Shane]

Therein is the the deficiency with your feelings about Wiz. You are allowing your perception of his character to cloud your judgment of his coaching skills.

IF we could trade Big Ben for Kolb you would probably say NO!! He has bad character and Kolb stands up for himself when his manhood is attacked.

Here's how I see it.

Wiz served a purpose here in AZ. He caught lighting in a bottle with Warner, but Wiz does deserve credit for our success in those two years as well. OF course he does. But Warner retired and took the magic that we as Cardinals fans experienced with him. It wasn't Wiz, it was Warner.

Okay.

But what has Wiz done since then? As a fan of close to 40 years I don't care to compare today to the past. I am not happy with 8-8 because we have sucked for the last whatever decades. I want out Cardinals to win. And to win more than they lose. And to make the playoffs. And to go to the Super Bowl. And so forth...

So when the team is not doing that, and lacks identity, and has a coach still using Warner and the Super Bowl run of a few years back as the proof that he is a good coach, uhm, no thank you. Time for him to go. I don't dislike him, I just think he is not the best coach for the team any longer.

My perception of his character has nothing to do with his coaching skills. I was just referring to oaks comment and nothing more.

I certainly dont think Whiz is infallible. However what you call lightning in a bottle. I call it Whiz recognizing something seeing it and helping to resurrect a career that was stagnant and dead. He deserves praise for that.

He had one terrible year post Warner. Not enough to get fired. It is clear even by Matt Leinarts own admission that the right decision with him was probably made. I cant and wont fault Whiz for not being able to bring along guys like Max freaking Hall, Derek Anderson etc.. and making them good NFL QB's. Those just dont grow on trees. So is it a coaching issue? Or a lack of avaialble talent issue? I believe that latter more than the former. Whiz IMO has proven to be a more than decent coach With some faults mind you! But deserve to be fired? No F'n way!

 

[ryanshaug]

Not sure how this turned from a Kolb thread to a bash Whiz thread...

Kolb can defend himself all he wants - he's scared out there...he was last year, he is this year...Kelly is just confirming what we already can see. Kolb has gotten paid a crap ton of money and he's not playing up to expectations. At what point can we stop blaming everyone but Kolb for his failures?

 

[red desert]

My perception of his character has nothing to do with his coaching skills. I was just referring to oaks comment and nothing more.

I certainly dont think Whiz is infallible. However what you call lightning in a bottle. I call it Whiz recognizing something seeing it and helping to resurrect a career that was stagnant and dead. He deserves praise for that.

He had one terrible year post Warner. Not enough to get fired. It is clear even by Matt Leinarts own admission that the right decision with him was probably made. I cant and wont fault Whiz for not being able to bring along guys like Max freaking Hall, Derek Anderson etc.. and making them good NFL QB's. Those just dont grow on trees. So is it a coaching issue? Or a lack of avaialble talent issue? I believe that latter more than the former. Whiz IMO has proven to be a more than decent coach With some faults mind you! But deserve to be fired? No F'n way!

Fired? Such a harsh word.

In any case, I'm watching the replay of the Raider Cards game and I am outright giddy about Ryan Williams. Liked the draft pick when it was made. Loved it when I saw him do what he does in a Cards uniform last preseason, and even more in the Raider game.

That was all Wiz. It may have been Keim, Graves, whoever... certainly Wiz deserves credit. That may very well be his best pick ever!!

Might even be a better pick than Levi Brown. Couldn't resist.

Ryan Williams. Great pick by Wiz.