Good God Whisenhunt--RESIST THE URGE TO BE AN IDIOT!!!

Cardiac

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He never should have elevated him to starter.

And I would like a look at a list of who was actually available at the time we took DA...I bet there were some other choices.

Whis fell in love with the concept that he could "fix" DA. Dude is unfixable, as Whis sadly found out. It was a good, healthy kick in the ego for Whis, and hopefully will make him a better coach.

Here's your list. A take off on here's your sign. http://vodpod.com/watch/3911335-dailymotion-bill-engvall-heres-your-sign-a-music-video


http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/agent/agent.html

Note that they listed RFA QB's as well. This list doesn't show a time line of when anyone was signed or released but get back to me on who we missed out on. Don't forget McNabb and Campbell would have cost us a draft pick.
 

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Note that they listed RFA QB's as well. This list doesn't show a time line of when anyone was signed or released but get back to me on who we missed out on. Don't forget McNabb and Campbell would have cost us a draft pick.

Can't view that from work, but I'll check it out later...I am curious.

I would rather have a McNabb or Campbell - a draft pick than DA + a draft pick. Any day.
 

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Can't view that from work, but I'll check it out later...I am curious.

I would rather have a McNabb or Campbell - a draft pick than DA + a draft pick. Any day.

Hindsight being 20/20 obviously DA was a lost cause. McNabb had a very down year and Campbell was benched before starting to playing decent. Even then it was more the running game then his arm that made the difference.

We are getting off the subject, Whiz is a proven quality play caller. I'm glad we have Miller as the OC and have zero doubt he will be calling plays at least at points during the season. Last year was sooooo bad that it has wiped many peoples minds clear of the success we had the previous 4 years.
 
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Calling plays worked for those two Super Bowl winning "morons", Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy.

Apples and oranges, CC. We're not talking about Payton or McCarthy. They've had success doing it. Whenever KW does it, it really doesn't work out. I hope he's learned his lesson with that, but this news doesn't give me confidence that he has.

Now, if he's just 'relaying' the plays, and that's what he means by calling the plays, that's a whole other story. I doubt that's what they meant, though, because why in the heck would that make news?
 

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Seriously? Why in the HELL would you elevate someone to OC if you weren't planning on giving over play calling duties?!?!?! Seriously, KW, don't be a moron, do us a favor, and do the right thing here. Good lord, why is he even considering this?

Cardinals | Coach unsure who will call plays
Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:15:54 -0800

Arizona Cardinals head coach Ken Whisenhunt said he is not sure if he or offensive coordinator Mike Miller will call the plays next season, reports Kent Somers, of The Arizona Republic.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/NFL?page=1#ixzz1EG2ikukw

If one looks under the Job Description of an Offensive Coordinator the first thing there is
(1) Call the plays on offense.

If Whiz is going to call the plays it reminds me of the days when the Cubs had not one Manger but a team of five (5) managers. That lasted one year. Insanity at best.
 

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Wow :eek:

To me Mike Miller doesn't even look like a football coach or someone who is even smart at doing it. I still don't understand why Wiz didn't hire a proven OC with a proven track record. The 2 Millers & his loyalty to Grimm may just get him fired.

lou holtz sure does not look like a coach either. buddy ryan does look like a coach.
 

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I don't think people really understand how poor our QB play was last year.

Dude, Dude how could i not see the worst QB play I have seen in the past 60 years. There should be a video of our QB play entitled "How Not To Play QB". Our QB play is to football what John Wayne Gacey was to murder.
 

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At this point, after hiring an OC, this shouldn't be a question...it should have become a fait accompli that Miller takes the reigns as the play caller. The fact that KW is even mulling this one over is troubling to me. I've thought about a lot of KW decisions, especially the QB decisions he made that led us to that atrocious offense, and I get worried. I know that most on this board have taken note of a lot of head-scratching KW decisions recently. That he would even consider this, IMO, tells me that he isn't learning from his mistakes, and that he may very well repeat them. I hope he doesn't.

I think Whiz looks like and talks like what we imagine a head coach should be. Kurt Warner made him look like a genius when we know that Kurt very much ran that offense. What ever play was called in to Kurt he would make the decision to use it or to change it. Warner was the real leader along with Fitz that took this team to the promised land. It was not the coaching. Whz can live off of Kurts performances for only so long and then he is going to have to show us that he is the head coach we want him to be. At this point it appears many of us are beginning to ask questions about his abilities as a head coach. I give him 2 more years to straighten this team out and prove he deserves to be the head coach. It all starts with finding a starting QB who can perform. Without one even Vince Lombardi would look like a rookie.
 

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Apples and oranges, CC. We're not talking about Payton or McCarthy. They've had success doing it. Whenever KW does it, it really doesn't work out. I hope he's learned his lesson with that, but this news doesn't give me confidence that he has.

Now, if he's just 'relaying' the plays, and that's what he means by calling the plays, that's a whole other story. I doubt that's what they meant, though, because why in the heck would that make news?
So you think Whiz hasn't had any success as a play caller? Last year was actually the 1st year he hasn't had success as a play calller and that was because he went with DA. Blame him all you want for that but saying he's not a successful play caller is plain wrong. You know Sean Payton had his play calling duties taken away from him while he was in NY. McCarthy has had 1 year where he didn't have a top 5-10 QB running the offense, Rodgers 1st year, their record 6-10. Did Shanahan(I know Kyle was "officially" the OC) forget offense last year in Washington or did the QB play stink? I have no problem with Whiz calling the plays.
 
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So you think Whiz hasn't had any success as a play caller? Last year was actually the 1st year he hasn't had success as a play calller and that was because he went with DA. Blame him all you want for that but saying he's not a successful play caller is plain wrong. You know Sean Payton had his play calling duties taken away from him while he was in NY. McCarthy has had 1 year where he didn't have a top 5-10 QB running the offense, Rodgers 1st year, their record 6-10. Did Shanahan(I know Kyle was "officially" the OC) forget offense last year in Washington or did the QB play stink? I have no problem with Whiz calling the plays.

I recall that, before last season, he tried it once and didn't do so great. Then Haley was brought in. Then he did it again the year we went to the playoffs, but we had an unbalanced offense that couldn't hold onto the ball long enough at times. Last year speaks for itself.

He's been a successful play caller as a coordinator, sure. As a HC? I don't think so.
 

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I recall that, before last season, he tried it once and didn't do so great. Then Haley was brought in. Then he did it again the year we went to the playoffs, but we had an unbalanced offense that couldn't hold onto the ball long enough at times. Last year speaks for itself.

He's been a successful play caller as a coordinator, sure. As a HC? I don't think so.
so 10-6 and a first round playoff win is not a successful season :shrug: ? It is the Cardinals we're talking about.
 

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I think Whiz looks like and talks like what we imagine a head coach should be. Kurt Warner made him look like a genius when we know that Kurt very much ran that offense. What ever play was called in to Kurt he would make the decision to use it or to change it. Warner was the real leader along with Fitz that took this team to the promised land. It was not the coaching. Whz can live off of Kurts performances for only so long and then he is going to have to show us that he is the head coach we want him to be. At this point it appears many of us are beginning to ask questions about his abilities as a head coach. I give him 2 more years to straighten this team out and prove he deserves to be the head coach. It all starts with finding a starting QB who can perform. Without one even Vince Lombardi would look like a rookie.

Perfectly stated John. Guys can keep stating that Whiz is a great play caller all they want but it doesn't make it so. With out a Kurt Warner there to recognize crap calls and change it( which he did regularly) we get what we had last year. You have to have a coach on the field(QB) that gets it. We didn't last season and it made Whiz look like the Idiot he is.
He can't identify talent, his play calling sucks and he keeps buffoons on his staff that can't motivate players to play(See Russ Grimm). There was a reason Big Ben had a non functioning relationship with the guy and a reason the Steelers didn't choose him as a headcoach. Boy did they ever dodge a bullet and make the right call sending him packing. Thank God there was talent on the roster when Wiz showed up because he has failed to add any other than the Steeler over the hill gang and 3rd best choices at coaches. Without Warner we were the worst team in the worst division in the NFL. 2 more years and we will again be the laughing stock of the NFL if we aren't already.
 
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so 10-6 and a first round playoff win is not a successful season :shrug: ? It is the Cardinals we're talking about.

A Hall of Fame QB will hide many weaknesses. Without most of the incredible plays (I'm not talking the good ones--any good QB can do that--I'm talking about the great ones), where would our season have been? How many times did not running the ball kill us? How much rest did our defense get on all those 3-and-outs because we passed so much?

Yeah, I never, ever want KW calling the plays again. He can do it and is one of the best at it--as a coordinator. As a head coach, it isn't within his wheel house.
 

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Perfectly stated John. Guys can keep stating that Whiz is a great play caller all they want but it doesn't make it so. With out a Kurt Warner there to recognize crap calls and change it( which he did regularly) we get what we had last year. You have to have a coach on the field(QB) that gets it. We didn't last season and it made Whiz look like the Idiot he is.
He can't identify talent, his play calling sucks and he keeps buffoons on his staff that can't motivate players to play(See Russ Grimm). There was a reason Big Ben had a non functioning relationship with the guy and a reason the Steelers didn't choose him as a headcoach. Boy did they ever dodge a bullet and make the right call sending him packing. Thank God there was talent on the roster when Wiz showed up because he has failed to add any other than the Steeler over the hill gang and 3rd best choices at coaches. Without Warner we were the worst team in the worst division in the NFL. 2 more years and we will again be the laughing stock of the NFL if we aren't already.
Well, you can keep spewing your garbage and that doesn't make it so. One losing record, 1 SB, 2 playoffs, in 4 years with the Cardinals. Thank you, good bye.
 

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Inquiring minds want to know. Who called the pass to Spach on 3rd and 16 vs Atlanta in the Wild Card game.
 

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Apples and oranges, CC. We're not talking about Payton or McCarthy. They've had success doing it. Whenever KW does it, it really doesn't work out. I hope he's learned his lesson with that, but this news doesn't give me confidence that he has.

Now, if he's just 'relaying' the plays, and that's what he means by calling the plays, that's a whole other story. I doubt that's what they meant, though, because why in the heck would that make news?

Not true at all. Whisenhunt has had quite a bit of success calling plays as our head coach. IMO more success than failure.

No one would've been successful last year. A terrible offensive line and a monumentally bad QB grounded this offense last year. The team failed to execute consistently; look at how many bad throws the QBs made to wide open WRs. If half of those bad throws were completions instead, we win 3-4 more ball games. And if that happens, none of you are complaining about Whisenhunt's playcalling.
 

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Inquiring minds want to know. Who called the pass to Spach on 3rd and 16 vs Atlanta in the Wild Card game.

Might be the only pass to the TE in several years...CKW doesn't use them...however that was a staple play for Warners Rams...he tossed it to Robinson just like that every game. Who knows if it was a changed play at the line...wouldn't suprise me a bit.
 
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Not true at all. Whisenhunt has had quite a bit of success calling plays as our head coach. IMO more success than failure.

No one would've been successful last year. A terrible offensive line and a monumentally bad QB grounded this offense last year. The team failed to execute consistently; look at how many bad throws the QBs made to wide open WRs. If half of those bad throws were completions instead, we win 3-4 more ball games. And if that happens, none of you are complaining about Whisenhunt's playcalling.

Okay, so what kind of idiot continues to try to play a spread, 3-4 receiver set, pass-first offense with our QB situation last season? I mean, we didn't even adjust the offense. Any play caller worth his salt would try to tailor their calls to minimize the weaknesses of their offense. I'm not saying we would have been good or even average, but it just shot us in the foot more than it should have last season.
 

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Well, you can keep spewing your garbage and that doesn't make it so. One losing record, 1 SB, 2 playoffs, in 4 years with the Cardinals. Thank you, good bye.


Yeah right, mine is Garbage and yours is not.....please. All with Warner under center...without him we are the weakest in the weakest division making our team a joke....again. Thanks CKW.
 

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Okay, so what kind of idiot continues to try to play a spread, 3-4 receiver set, pass-first offense with our QB situation last season? I mean, we didn't even adjust the offense. Any play caller worth his salt would try to tailor their calls to minimize the weaknesses of their offense. I'm not saying we would have been good or even average, but it just shot us in the foot more than it should have last season.

But you haven't disproven what I said: Coach Whisenhunt has called the plays for most of his time here, and for the most part has been successful. Don't redirect here; disprove what my original point was! :p

IMO We wouldn't have been anymore successful trying to run the ball more. We were such a spotty running team. We would run 3 times for 4 yards, then have a run for 18. That's not how successful running teams win, you have to consistently get 3-4 yards.

I think Whisenhunt, and most NFL coaches would agree with me and I've heard many say as much. If teams are stacking 7-8 men in the box you won't run successfully. We saw this all season long, and DA/Hall/Skelton struggled to beat teams with lots of defenders playing the run/blitzing.
 

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Might be the only pass to the TE in several years...CKW doesn't use them...however that was a staple play for Warners Rams...he tossed it to Robinson just like that every game. Who knows if it was a changed play at the line...wouldn't suprise me a bit.

Not really

The Robinson guy you mention (Jeff Robinson) had a total of 6 catches for 76 yards in 1999, the year Warner won MVP.

In 2000, he had 5 catches for 52 yards

In 2001, he had 11 catches for 108 yards

I dont think you were thinking of the right player. Or the right team for that matter.

Mike Martz's offense hardly ever uses the tight end. A better example is Vernon Davis from 2008 (the only year Martz was there) to 2009. Look up the stats and you'll see a considerable difference. He went from 358 yards and 2 TDs to 965 yards and 13 TDs
 
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[/B]

Yeah right, mine is Garbage and yours is not.....please. All with Warner under center...without him we are the weakest in the weakest division making our team a joke....again. Thanks CKW.

Don't let them get to you Dan. In 2006 after the 4th game I said the Cards were terrible and were going to finish 5-11. I was told my post was the most ridiculous in ASFN history and that the Cards still had a real good shot at the playoffs. We all know who was right.

:D
 

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Perfectly stated John. Guys can keep stating that Whiz is a great play caller all they want but it doesn't make it so. With out a Kurt Warner there to recognize crap calls and change it( which he did regularly) we get what we had last year. You have to have a coach on the field(QB) that gets it. We didn't last season and it made Whiz look like the Idiot he is.
He can't identify talent, his play calling sucks and he keeps buffoons on his staff that can't motivate players to play(See Russ Grimm). There was a reason Big Ben had a non functioning relationship with the guy and a reason the Steelers didn't choose him as a headcoach. Boy did they ever dodge a bullet and make the right call sending him packing. Thank God there was talent on the roster when Wiz showed up because he has failed to add any other than the Steeler over the hill gang and 3rd best choices at coaches. Without Warner we were the worst team in the worst division in the NFL. 2 more years and we will again be the laughing stock of the NFL if we aren't already.

Are you really going to pound this "Warner made Whiz" crap continuously?

Then if so, you need to tell me, why wasnt Warner able to make Dennis Green? (crickets chirping.....)

So even with Warner, we were the laughing stock of the league....until Whisenhunt came to town.

I think the better answer is Whisenhunt, whether you like it or not, was an instrumental part in reviving Kurt's career.

Some how, some way, you are just going to have to open your eyes a bit wider. How much longer are you going to ignore facts that are in front of you, such as the two division titles, the NFC Championship and the SB appearance?

It's so funny to me that a coach who has had three consecutive good seasons on a team where no other coach seemingly was able to succeed, to trying so damn hard to mitigate his coaching acumen because we had a bad season in what many have deemed a transition year. We lost several key guys last year and were only able to really replace one of them (Rhodes for Rolle). During these transition years, it doesnt matter who you are, the road is bumpy much to the chagrin of the fans. This is why not one reputable NFL analyst even considered Whiz on the hot seat last season. Not one. As a matter of fact, after our MNF blunder, Tirico, Jaws and Gruden went out of their way to tell fans, who called up local radio stations saying the same stuff as you, that they're just ridiculous. Because they understand the trials and tribulations of coaching in the league

I also dont understand your statements about his Pittsburgh past. For example, his relationship with Roethlisberger. You want to know why there was such a rift? Look who Whiz was dealing with; a total narcissistic, self-indulging rapist who has no regard for anyone other than himself (and sometimes not even for himself). You are talking about the same quarterback who was called out publicly several times by Hines Ward. So if you are looking for one party in that dispute who was more in the wrong, you dont have to look too hard.

Whiz was hired by the Cardinals eight days before Tomlin took the job at Pittsburgh. He long departed that conversation before any decisions were made. Whiz also interviewed for the Falcons and Dolphins along with the Steelers FYI, so it's not like Whiz himself wasn't a wanted man.

Moreover, I know you want to dismiss Whiz as a play caller, but he has had success, which includes grooming the likes of Todd Haley, who was a wide receiver coach before coming to AZ. I also challenge you to give me the exact statistics of how many calls were made on the line when Warner was here as opposed to on the sidelines, since you are so sure it occurred so frequently. More accurately, the formations that were sent out defines what the play call was supposed to be. When 3 or 4 wideouts line up on the LOS, chances are the original call was not a run play. A good coach would also have the ability to spot such a skill out of his quarterback and give him the autonomy to make calls on the line. Unfortunately, this season, we were without a QB with that capability, even if we kept Leinart.

See the thing that most detractors do not consider was the garbage that was behind center. Now before you jump down my throat about how Whiz chose Anderson, I recognize that, so he holds some of the responsibility for that decision; but in addition, Im not so sure he wasnt influenced the slightest to let Leinart go by the front office (who would have had to renegotiate his contract the next season or pay him $11 mil) and the other players (who never stood up for him). With that said, I blame the execution more than the plays themselves. How is it humanly possible to game plan with one horrible veteran and two late round or undrafted rookies? It's virtually impossible. You cant even run the ball because the defense can successfully put 8 men in the box and not worry about getting beat deep.

So all in all, the "Whiz sucks" argument is really premature. Let's see what happens next season
 

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Are you really going to pound this "Warner made Whiz" crap continuously?

Then if so, you need to tell me, why wasnt Warner able to make Dennis Green? (crickets chirping.....)

So even with Warner, we were the laughing stock of the league....until Whisenhunt came to town.

I think the better answer is Whisenhunt, whether you like it or not, was an instrumental part in reviving Kurt's career.

Some how, some way, you are just going to have to open your eyes a bit wider. How much longer are you going to ignore facts that are in front of you, such as the two division titles, the NFC Championship and the SB appearance?

It's so funny to me that a coach who has had three consecutive good seasons on a team where no other coach seemingly was able to succeed, to trying so damn hard to mitigate his coaching acumen because we had a bad season in what many have deemed a transition year. We lost several key guys last year and were only able to really replace one of them (Rhodes for Rolle). During these transition years, it doesnt matter who you are, the road is bumpy much to the chagrin of the fans. This is why not one reputable NFL analyst even considered Whiz on the hot seat last season. Not one. As a matter of fact, after our MNF blunder, Tirico, Jaws and Gruden went out of their way to tell fans, who called up local radio stations saying the same stuff as you, that they're just ridiculous. Because they understand the trials and tribulations of coaching in the league

I also dont understand your statements about his Pittsburgh past. For example, his relationship with Roethlisberger. You want to know why there was such a rift? Look who Whiz was dealing with; a total narcissistic, self-indulging rapist who has no regard for anyone other than himself (and sometimes not even for himself). You are talking about the same quarterback who was called out publicly several times by Hines Ward. So if you are looking for one party in that dispute who was more in the wrong, you dont have to look too hard.

Whiz was hired by the Cardinals eight days before Tomlin took the job at Pittsburgh. He long departed that conversation before any decisions were made. Whiz also interviewed for the Falcons and Dolphins along with the Steelers FYI, so it's not like Whiz himself wasn't a wanted man.

Moreover, I know you want to dismiss Whiz as a play caller, but he has had success, which includes grooming the likes of Todd Haley, who was a wide receiver coach before coming to AZ. I also challenge you to give me the exact statistics of how many calls were made on the line when Warner was here as opposed to on the sidelines, since you are so sure it occurred so frequently. More accurately, the formations that were sent out defines what the play call was supposed to be. When 3 or 4 wideouts line up on the LOS, chances are the original call was not a run play. A good coach would also have the ability to spot such a skill out of his quarterback and give him the autonomy to make calls on the line. Unfortunately, this season, we were without a QB with that capability, even if we kept Leinart.

See the thing that most detractors do not consider was the garbage that was behind center. Now before you jump down my throat about how Whiz chose Anderson, I recognize that, so he holds some of the responsibility for that decision; but in addition, Im not so sure he wasnt influenced the slightest to let Leinart go by the front office (who would have had to renegotiate his contract the next season or pay him $11 mil) and the other players (who never stood up for him). With that said, I blame the execution more than the plays themselves. How is it humanly possible to game plan with one horrible veteran and two late round or undrafted rookies? It's virtually impossible. You cant even run the ball because the defense can successfully put 8 men in the box and not worry about getting beat deep.

So all in all, the "Whiz sucks" argument is really premature. Let's see what happens next season

Very well stated, thank you.
 

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Are you really going to pound this "Warner made Whiz" crap continuously?

Then if so, you need to tell me, why wasnt Warner able to make Dennis Green? (crickets chirping.....)

So even with Warner, we were the laughing stock of the league....until Whisenhunt came to town.

I think the better answer is Whisenhunt, whether you like it or not, was an instrumental part in reviving Kurt's career.

Some how, some way, you are just going to have to open your eyes a bit wider. How much longer are you going to ignore facts that are in front of you, such as the two division titles, the NFC Championship and the SB appearance?

It's so funny to me that a coach who has had three consecutive good seasons on a team where no other coach seemingly was able to succeed, to trying so damn hard to mitigate his coaching acumen because we had a bad season in what many have deemed a transition year. We lost several key guys last year and were only able to really replace one of them (Rhodes for Rolle). During these transition years, it doesnt matter who you are, the road is bumpy much to the chagrin of the fans. This is why not one reputable NFL analyst even considered Whiz on the hot seat last season. Not one. As a matter of fact, after our MNF blunder, Tirico, Jaws and Gruden went out of their way to tell fans, who called up local radio stations saying the same stuff as you, that they're just ridiculous. Because they understand the trials and tribulations of coaching in the league

I also dont understand your statements about his Pittsburgh past. For example, his relationship with Roethlisberger. You want to know why there was such a rift? Look who Whiz was dealing with; a total narcissistic, self-indulging rapist who has no regard for anyone other than himself (and sometimes not even for himself). You are talking about the same quarterback who was called out publicly several times by Hines Ward. So if you are looking for one party in that dispute who was more in the wrong, you dont have to look too hard.

Whiz was hired by the Cardinals eight days before Tomlin took the job at Pittsburgh. He long departed that conversation before any decisions were made. Whiz also interviewed for the Falcons and Dolphins along with the Steelers FYI, so it's not like Whiz himself wasn't a wanted man.

Moreover, I know you want to dismiss Whiz as a play caller, but he has had success, which includes grooming the likes of Todd Haley, who was a wide receiver coach before coming to AZ. I also challenge you to give me the exact statistics of how many calls were made on the line when Warner was here as opposed to on the sidelines, since you are so sure it occurred so frequently. More accurately, the formations that were sent out defines what the play call was supposed to be. When 3 or 4 wideouts line up on the LOS, chances are the original call was not a run play. A good coach would also have the ability to spot such a skill out of his quarterback and give him the autonomy to make calls on the line. Unfortunately, this season, we were without a QB with that capability, even if we kept Leinart.

See the thing that most detractors do not consider was the garbage that was behind center. Now before you jump down my throat about how Whiz chose Anderson, I recognize that, so he holds some of the responsibility for that decision; but in addition, Im not so sure he wasnt influenced the slightest to let Leinart go by the front office (who would have had to renegotiate his contract the next season or pay him $11 mil) and the other players (who never stood up for him). With that said, I blame the execution more than the plays themselves. How is it humanly possible to game plan with one horrible veteran and two late round or undrafted rookies? It's virtually impossible. You cant even run the ball because the defense can successfully put 8 men in the box and not worry about getting beat deep.

So all in all, the "Whiz sucks" argument is really premature. Let's see what happens next season

It's nice to see a little reality infused into the conversation. Excellent post!!!
 

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