Good God Whisenhunt--RESIST THE URGE TO BE AN IDIOT!!!

[Gee!]

Stout is a drama *****.. A big 6'7 drama *****.. With a beard to boot.. Dude calm down.. Quit making life so dramatic.. You make us men look stupid..

 

[AZ Native]

Come on Gee, you know that all us everyday fans typing on our keyboards know more than that stupid NFL coach knows. We could straighten out his twisted engineer mind if he would just listen to us. He is an idiot, and we are all geniuses.

 

[Rats]

Are you really going to pound this "Warner made Whiz" crap continuously?

Well I joined this non descript message forum in 2002 and I have a third the number of post you do since you joined in 2005. I would hardly call any of what I do here continuous. I guess I am just not one for "chit chat".






So all in all, the "Whiz sucks" argument is really premature. Let's see what happens next season[/QUOTE

This is really all you had to say..... of course thats what was being said after Whiz punted Leinart last season and guys felt we would still be ok and take our division because Whiz is a guru. Probably what will be said next offseason to, when we finish in the basement do to, not putting enough talent on the field, not getting a real Qb or just plain bad luck. As I have said I will be happy to eat crow on calling Whiz a fraud as our headcoach if and when he actually deserves credit for building a sustained winning team. He didn't do that as he inherited a top offense and has preceded to tear it down all the while not building up the other side of the ball. Guess we will see.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

He didn't do that as he inherited a top offense

I didn't know an offense scoring less than 20 points a game and in the bottom half of the league yardage-wise was considerd a top offense. Then the following year, when Whiz took over with virtually the same players, that offense was 7th in points and 12th in yards. Oh yeah, the defense also improved from 29th to 17th. The following year was only a SB appearnce then followed by a 10-6 division winning record and playoff win. But, you're right, I'm sure the coaching had nothing to do with any of that. Looking at all that he does stink and should be fired immediately.

 

[ajcardfan]

I agree of course but there are things that can be done to take pressure off of a QB. Short passes, screen passes, running the ball, all take pressure off of a QB.

Especially the short and screen passes. Teams blitzed without fear last year and if the QB can get the ball out to a RB who has blockers in front of him it's going to be a nice play if the LBs are in the backfield.

The Cardinals have always been one of the worst teams when it comes to executing screens. It drives me nuts, because screens are one of my favorite playcalls.

 

[gamebird98]

Im going to play the "wait and see" with the Wiz sucks thing. We all make decisions that blow up in our faces, unfortunatly, when you are the head coach in the NFL....your bad decisions are there for everyone to see. Im sure the season didnt go the way Wiz would have wished. Wiz probably figured that Anderson would have been "good enough" to guide this offense based on what he had seen the last 2 years....he was wrong, which he admitted (not necessarily by words but actions)...but by trying others at the QB posistion. This year will speak volumes (at least to me) of his abilities to make changes to repair the damage which he has inflicted on this team....so, for me ...ill wait till I make my decision on him.

 

[Duckjake]

I didn't know an offense scoring less than 20 points a game and in the bottom half of the league yardage-wise was considerd a top offense. Then the following year, when Whiz took over with virtually the same players, that offense was 7th in points and 12th in yards. Oh yeah, the defense also improved from 29th to 17th. The following year was only a SB appearance then followed by a 10-6 division winning record and playoff win. But, you're right, I'm sure the coaching had nothing to do with any of that. Looking at all that he does stink and should be fired immediately.

The Cardinals had the #1 passing offense in the NFL under Green in 2005. With Warner splitting time with Josh McCown! Then, just like now, they couldn't run the football and couldn't score TDs once they got into opponents territory. In 2006 they were 10th in passing with a rookie QB playing much of the time.

We also have to remember that several of the key players in the two division titles had been on the team for years. The Cards in 2009 had more players with more time with the same team than any other squad in the NFL

So I would say he inherited a top offense. But unlike his predecessor, CKW was able to get that offense into the endzone for TDs instead of relying on Rackers FGs. A huge difference and a testament to good coaching.

On the other hand that defense that was ranked 17th in yards finished 27th in points allowed with 399, 10 more than 2006, and the following year gave up over 426 points. An astonishing figure when you consider the offense was clicking on all cylinders.

So not such good coaching on that side of the ball.

 

[Stout]

Stout is a drama *****.. A big 6'7 drama *****.. With a beard to boot.. Dude calm down.. Quit making life so dramatic.. You make us men look stupid..

Gee is a *****...just a *****

Come on Gee, you know that all us everyday fans typing on our keyboards know more than that stupid NFL coach knows. We could straighten out his twisted engineer mind if he would just listen to us. He is an idiot, and we are all geniuses.

Man, no coach has ever made a stupid decision, and no fan has ever been able to tell it was stupid when it was happening. *worshipful intonations* All hail the infallible KW! Ommmmmmm! */end worshipful intonations*

 

[Cards Czar]

Gee is a *****...just a *****

Stout, I have been gone to the Pimp convention and now i am back. GEE where's my money!

 

[TJ]

Well I joined this non descript message forum in 2002 and I have a third the number of post you do since you joined in 2005. I would hardly call any of what I do here continuous. I guess I am just not one for "chit chat".

Who gives a crap about our post count. I average about 4.5 post a day. Not exactly Shane H status (sorry, Shane ). In the grand scheme of things, I dont spend as much time on here as you would believe.

Plus, youve been around a ton lately and 85% of the posts Ive seen from you have been about slamming Whiz to the ground. It has become verbal diarrhea at this point.

So all in all, the "Whiz sucks" argument is really premature. Let's see what happens next season

This is really all you had to say..... of course thats what was being said after Whiz punted Leinart last season and guys felt we would still be ok and take our division because Whiz is a guru. Probably what will be said next offseason to, when we finish in the basement do to, not putting enough talent on the field, not getting a real Qb or just plain bad luck. As I have said I will be happy to eat crow on calling Whiz a fraud as our headcoach if and when he actually deserves credit for building a sustained winning team. He didn't do that as he inherited a top offense and has preceded to tear it down all the while not building up the other side of the ball. Guess we will see.

That statement was more for extending a laurel to you and others.

The bottom line is your chief arguments needed some clarity and factual basis.

As Ive stated before. I understand the dynamics and peaks and valleys of the NFL and coaching. This is common. It is also common to listen to fans overreact to one bad season. The fact of the matter is Whiz has had three good seasons out of four. If we continue to ruminate over the past season, it will cause us grief. It's done. Let's see what the future holds. The pending CBA issues dont help us either

 

[Rats]

That statement was more for extending a laurel to you and others.

The bottom line is your chief arguments needed some clarity and factual basis.

As Ive stated before. I understand the dynamics and peaks and valleys of the NFL and coaching. This is common. It is also common to listen to fans overreact to one bad season. The fact of the matter is Whiz has had three good seasons out of four. If we continue to ruminate over the past season, it will cause us grief. It's done. Let's see what the future holds. The pending CBA issues dont help us either

What clarity? What factual basis? Warner was under center for our winning years. He was not last year. Whis has not replaced talent he inherited, has called poor game plans since he came hear and without Warner would have already been canned. He can't bring in top coaching talent. If he was actually a guru like many believe here we would have done a damn side better in the 3 winning seasons than what our record was in a weak division. We hang our hat on those 3 seasons because there is nothing else with this franchise but those seasons. Outside of the Warner lead run to the Super Bowl we really were not that great. We just hadn't expereinced anything like it since the 70's. You know winning....its better than Losing!!!
I am willing to wait and see because he got an extension but with the poor front office and Gm I do not hold out hope that he will deliver any great talent or coach up what is here.

 

[TJ]

What clarity? What factual basis? Warner was under center for our winning years. He was not last year. Whis has not replaced talent he inherited, has called poor game plans since he came hear and without Warner would have already been canned. He can't bring in top coaching talent. If he was actually a guru like many believe here we would have done a damn side better in the 3 winning seasons than what our record was in a weak division. We hang our hat on those 3 seasons because there is nothing else with this franchise but those seasons. Outside of the Warner lead run to the Super Bowl we really were not that great. We just hadn't expereinced anything like it since the 70's. You know winning....its better than Losing!!!
I am willing to wait and see because he got an extension but with the poor front office and Gm I do not hold out hope that he will deliver any great talent or coach up what is here.

Again...why didnt Warner help Denny win?? If he truly is the only catalyst that gave us winning seasons, he would have done so in 2005 and 2006. Denny didnt do it. Whiz and co did. Didnt he bring in Haley, who in two years became a head coach?


Evidently you didnt read my post. That's your clarity. That's your factual basis.

I honestly dont know what more you want me to say to you that's going to drive the point home

Or like you say, "you have no reading comprehension"

 

[Rats]

Look Dennis Green whether you like it or not turned this franchise around. He inherited a terrible roster from Dave Mac. In three seasons he had this team restocked. We had a top offense and we were a solid but not spectacular D away from turning the corner. The usual suspect ownership pulled the plug to early or we would have a sustained winner right now rather than the craptastic roster Whiz has givin us. DG knew how to keep talent on a roster and he showed in Minny given enough time he would win in spectacular fashion. Not 8 or 9 win seasons. He had his faults but he was way better than what we have now. Any decent coach( which Whis qualifies as barely) could have won with the talent DG put on this team. Warner had the offense going when DG was here also and you know it but it defeats your arguement that Whis made Warner great again. Total BS. The ownership is to blame for not allowing a winner to be built here by DG. To some degree by keeping Graves, they hamstring Whiz also but he doesn't have the talent spotting ability DG had.

 

[TJ]

Look Dennis Green whether you like it or not turned this franchise around. He inherited a terrible roster from Dave Mac. In three seasons he had this team restocked. We had a top offense and we were a solid but not spectacular D away from turning the corner. The usual suspect ownership pulled the plug to early or we would have a sustained winner right now rather than the craptastic roster Whiz has givin us. DG knew how to keep talent on a roster and he showed in Minny given enough time he would win in spectacular fashion. Not 8 or 9 win seasons. He had his faults but he was way better than what we have now. Any decent coach( which Whis qualifies as barely) could have won with the talent DG put on this team. Warner had the offense going when DG was here also and you know it but it defeats your arguement that Whis made Warner great again. Total BS. The ownership is to blame for not allowing a winner to be built here by DG. To some degree by keeping Graves, they hamstring Whiz also but he doesn't have the talent spotting ability DG had.

Denny took a 4-12 team and made it 5-11. Hardly considered "turning it around"

Whiz, with that same ownership, did more in three seasons than ANY coach here did in 22 in PHX.

Sounds more to me that you have a personal vendetta against Whiz if you are seriously trying to use Denny's accomplishments against him. You sound clueless, and Im serious about that

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Look Dennis Green whether you like it or not turned this franchise around. He inherited a terrible roster from Dave Mac. In three seasons he had this team restocked. We had a top offense and we were a solid but not spectacular D away from turning the corner. The usual suspect ownership pulled the plug to early or we would have a sustained winner right now rather than the craptastic roster Whiz has givin us. DG knew how to keep talent on a roster and he showed in Minny given enough time he would win in spectacular fashion. Not 8 or 9 win seasons. He had his faults but he was way better than what we have now. Any decent coach( which Whis qualifies as barely) could have won with the talent DG put on this team. Warner had the offense going when DG was here also and you know it but it defeats your arguement that Whis made Warner great again. Total BS. The ownership is to blame for not allowing a winner to be built here by DG. To some degree by keeping Graves, they hamstring Whiz also but he doesn't have the talent spotting ability DG had.

It's certainly one of the great mysteries of our time, that the whole NFL turned its back on the genius of Denny Green after he was summarily booted out of AZ.

 

[Rats]

Denny took a 4-12 team and made it 5-11. Hardly considered "turning it around"

Whiz, with that same ownership, did more in three seasons than ANY coach here did in 22 in PHX.

Sounds more to me that you have a personal vendetta against Whiz if you are seriously trying to use Denny's accomplishments against him. You sound clueless, and Im serious about that

There is nothing clueless about the fact that DG had a rep for bringing in talent. He did that here. The ownership only gave him 3 of his 4 years to take a triple A roster and make the playoffs. Had he had more time we would have a sustained winning team rather than what Whiz has done with it. We had 3 marginal winning seasons and one glorious month where we played lights out in a Super Bowl run. Now we have a roster that can't win the worst division in football. As I said DG had his faults in how he handled players, coaches, and the ownership. It is not a mystery why he is no longer a HC in the NFL. He wants to much power over everything and ownership does not give that up. None of the owners do as is evident by our looming lockout. He is also getting older. Just like all the coaches do. I do not have a vendetta agaisnt Whiz. I just wish he was better at getting talent here and giving us a sustained winner.

 

[bg7brd]

Look Dennis Green whether you like it or not turned this franchise around. He inherited a terrible roster from Dave Mac. In three seasons he had this team restocked. We had a top offense and we were a solid but not spectacular D away from turning the corner. The usual suspect ownership pulled the plug to early or we would have a sustained winner right now rather than the craptastic roster Whiz has givin us. DG knew how to keep talent on a roster and he showed in Minny given enough time he would win in spectacular fashion. Not 8 or 9 win seasons. He had his faults but he was way better than what we have now. Any decent coach( which Whis qualifies as barely) could have won with the talent DG put on this team. Warner had the offense going when DG was here also and you know it but it defeats your arguement that Whis made Warner great again. Total BS. The ownership is to blame for not allowing a winner to be built here by DG. To some degree by keeping Graves, they hamstring Whiz also but he doesn't have the talent spotting ability DG had.

Wasn't Leinart the starting QB the last 2/3 of Denny's last season?

 

[Duckjake]

Wasn't Leinart the starting QB the last 2/3 of Denny's last season?

Yes but in 2006 week 17 Warner was 22-32 for 356 yards and a TD.



The Cards were awful running the football under Green. Under CKW they simply don't run the football much at all. Dead last in rush attempts 3 years in a row.

 

[THESMEL]

what

rewrite it your way, Kurt was beat out by Josh and Matt, Kurt started 06 1-4 and was booed off the field. He really sucked. He always hit some great plays followed by a terrible streak with multiple turnovers that made it impossible for the rest of the team to win, no matter how well they played.

Then He continued the tri polar play but was a hero just more than the goat 9 out of 7 times and Haley ran Edge and took us through the playoffs to the SB. Where we abandoned the run again and died in a close battle.


Terry Bradshaw is the only QB in history that comparers to Warners combined fumbles and INT's and He won 4 SB's with defense and a running game, and a handful of spectacular bombs. Look at Swann and Stallworths career numbers if you want to see contrast to Fitz and Q.

Matt Leinart threw 2 td's in the first 1/4 of his first 2 NFL starts. that just about equals last seasons QB production. Not to mention against a Bears defense that rolled to the SB.

I love KW and what he did, but If He would been able to avoid 50%, 3 and outs, loss of huge leads, embraced the run even 40% of the time, We would have rocked the NFL, a little less exciting, but solid.

Yes but in 2006 week 17 Warner was 22-32 for 356 yards and a TD.



The Cards were awful running the football under Green. Under CKW they simply don't run the football much at all. Dead last in rush attempts 3 years in a row.

 

[Duckjake]

Kurt was beat out by Josh

Not true. Warner was injured in 2005, Josh came in and played well so stayed for a game or two but then played poorly and Warner took back over until he was hurt again in week 15.

Where we abandoned the run again

400 yards of offense against the #1 defense in the NFL in the biggest game of the year and you're complaining?

Haley ran Edge and took us through the playoffs to the SB

I wonder how many people remember that Hightower had more rushing yards than Edge in the Carolina game. Let's also not forget that the Cards blew a 24-6 halftime lead, running the football vs the Eagles.

 

[bg7brd]

Kurt was beat out by Josh

Not true. Warner was injured in 2005, Josh came in and played well so stayed for a game or two but then played poorly and Warner took back over until he was hurt again in week 15.



400 yards of offense against the #1 defense in the NFL in the biggest game of the year and you're complaining?



I wonder how many people remember that Hightower had more rushing yards than Edge in the Carolina game. Let's also not forget that the Cards blew a 24-6 halftime lead, running the football vs the Eagles.

I will also add Hightower's 4th and one conversion and TD on the final drive against the Eagles.

 

[Duckjake]

I will also add Hightower's 4th and one conversion and TD on the final drive against the Eagles.

Hard to believe James ran 5 times on that final drive for 3 yards total.-1,-1,2,3 and 0.

17 second half runs for 44 yards. 9 gained 2 yards or less. Looks hauntingly familiar.

Meanwhile Warner was 5-5 on that final drive for 56 yards, the TD, and then tossed the two point conversion to Patrick.

 

[Catfish]

What I recall about Denny, is that while he was a GREAT GM, he was a terrible coach who nearly always laid the blame for anything that went wrong on someone who didn't deserve that blame. THat got him fired here, not the roster that he brought us. I have often wondered what would have happened if we had kept him as a GM, and brought in Whiz and company to coach this roster. To me, it would have made sense to have a power running O-line, and have Edge and Timmy to rock the boat. Warner and Leinart would have done what they did offensively, and maybe Denny would have forced Whiz to at least run often enough to keep the defense guessing. While we may have been pass first, I seriously doubt that Warner would have been allowed to pass as often as he did. A little more balance like we displayed on the SB playoff run might have made this a very formidable team, and Green might have kept us stocked with talent.

 

[conraddobler]

How is no one fired for the DA fiasco?

I can understand why we didn't dump Whiz over this, totally understand that, but someone has to go, it's not good to deprive the NFL God's of their sacrifice.

 

[Duckjake]

What I recall about Denny, is that while he was a GREAT GM, he was a terrible coach who nearly always laid the blame for anything that went wrong on someone who didn't deserve that blame. THat got him fired here, not the roster that he brought us. I have often wondered what would have happened if we had kept him as a GM, and brought in Whiz and company to coach this roster. To me, it would have made sense to have a power running O-line, and have Edge and Timmy to rock the boat. Warner and Leinart would have done what they did offensively, and maybe Denny would have forced Whiz to at least run often enough to keep the defense guessing. While we may have been pass first, I seriously doubt that Warner would have been allowed to pass as often as he did. A little more balance like we displayed on the SB playoff run might have made this a very formidable team, and Green might have kept us stocked with talent.

I think 4 things contributed to Green's demise in Arizona. Never having a fully functional Kurt Warner-hurt in '05 twice and slow start in 2006, failing to change the here we go again attitude of the Arizona Cardinals which led to, 3, the collapse of the football team after the crushing losses to St.Louis and Chicago in 2006 and finally like almost every Cardinal coach in Arizona the failure to develop a consistent running game. Going with an old Emmit Smith, Marcel Shipp and jj arrington was a sure recipe for disaster.

Sadly the Cards were right back with all 4 last season. No Warner. Give up attitude which led to 3, going in the tank after tough losses to Tampa and Minnesota, and an inconsistent running game.

Whisenhunt was able to avoid the usual Cardinal collapses mainly because the Cards were always ahead and didn't have any killer losses in '08 and '09. Yet even then they had several games where they just decided to not show up or started coasting once they got a big lead. For instance blowing 31-10 and 24-6 leads in the playoffs. That is also why it was so incredible that the Cards were able to come back and win vs Atlanta and Philly.