Goran Dragic traded to Heat

[Mainstreet]

Heck maybe they could have traded Goran to Miami for the same package that they got, and perhaps with IT to Boston but then use the 1st rd pick they got from Boston + Miles Plumlee to give to Utah for Kanter.

We could have kept Ennis and the LAL 1st rd pick. If they still wanted Knight real bad, go after him in the off season because as in turns out, Milwaukke wasn't planning on matching any offer over $9M/yr for him anyway.

My mind spins at the options. The Suns were waiting for the opportunity to trade for a young talented big man and guess what, they missed that golden opportunity when it came around. This makes question, what was McDonough thinking? I would have given up two first round picks for Kanter if need be.

 

[Catlover]

Heck maybe they could have traded Goran to Miami for the same package that they got, and perhaps with IT to Boston but then use the 1st rd pick they got from Boston + Miles Plumlee to give to Utah for Kanter.

We could have kept Ennis and the LAL 1st rd pick. If they still wanted Knight real bad, go after him in the off season because as in turns out, Milwaukke wasn't planning on matching any offer over $9M/yr for him anyway.

They offered him 9 million per year when the league viewed him as a marginal starter. How are so sure that a half season playing at an all star level wouldn't have raised his value in Milwaukee?

 

[sunsfan88]

They offered him 9 million per year when the league viewed him as a marginal starter. How are so sure that a half season playing at an all star level wouldn't have raised his value in Milwaukee?

There were all kinds of reports in Milwaukke that Kidd did not want to pay Knight a lot. The trade to send him out despite him playing at a near All Star caliber level for the Bucks proved it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There were all kinds of reports in Milwaukke that Kidd did not want to pay Knight a lot. The trade to send him out despite him playing at a near All Star caliber level for the Bucks proved it.

He wasn't a near All Star caliber level player. He's a nobody.

 

[sunsfan88]

He wasn't a near All Star caliber level player. He's a nobody.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Dwyane-Wade-Would-Pick-Brandon-Knight-For-His-All-Star-Game-Spot-35556775

Not only him but many people around the league including Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson both said during a broadcast that he should get in.

 

[Catlover]

There were all kinds of reports in Milwaukke that Kidd did not want to pay Knight a lot. The trade to send him out despite him playing at a near All Star caliber level for the Bucks proved it.

Different story. They were willing to give him 9 when he was more potential than player. After he exploded they were concerned he was going to demand the maximum. You can speculate they weren't going to give him that maximum and you'd probably be correct. But you were claiming they were still unwilling to exceed 9 and that's doubtful.

 

[Phrazbit]

He wasn't a near All Star caliber level player. He's a nobody.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Dwyane-Wade-Would-Pick-Brandon-Knight-For-His-All-Star-Game-Spot-35556775

Not only him but many people around the league including Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson both said during a broadcast that he should get in.

cheese was being sarcastic

 

[Phrazbit]

Miami is going to miss the playoffs. I know they lost Bosh, but still, its a joke that they their record is that pathetic in the lowly East.

Spoelstra is a lousy coach. He has to be the worst ring owning coach of all time. It seems crazy to say a team that won 2 titles underperformed but IMO they clearly did... and they got reeeeeally lucky to win vs the Spurs in 2013.

Back to Dragic though. Free from the "misuse" of the Suns he went and put up virtually identical stats in Miami. The guy is not an elite PG, he never has been. Last year the Suns had him doing a Manu impersonation and he had the best year of his career... by far. He should have recognized and embraced that. Instead he is back to his old ways of playing average to slightly above average offensive PG, terrible defensive PG and losing far more than winning.

You chose poorly Goran, but hey, at least its Miami that will be forced to give you an insane contract instead of us.

If we flip those Miami picks it better be for some real treasure, because they're on track to be solid gold.

 

[sunsfan88]

It's from Goran's fault that they suck and Heat fans see Dragic as the one positive thing from this season.

I doubt he gets max contract, Pat riley isn't a moron. I have said from the beginning that all this nonsense about Dragic getting max offers was nothing but crap made by the media. Will likely get around Lowry or Bledsoe type money which isn't bad imo for a player of his caliber.

With a healthy Bosh and an improved Whiteside, Miami will still likely have more success than Phoenix next season. If the Dragic-Frye combo worked so well, Dragic-Bosh should be even better.

When this trade first happened I didn't expect Dragic to do anything in Miami this season having to learn a new system and due to having no real pick and pop partner which is a key to his game. Fact that he has actually played well for them so far surprised me a bit at least.

 

[Phrazbit]

I didn't say it was his fault, but he hasn't helped. Their biggest problem is Spo sucks.

Miami probably will be better than the Suns next year, largely because I expect the Suns to blow the team up. But I don't think Miami will be any good. They're a crap team in a crap conference, they're also old, getting older and more injury prone.

And I'm sure Miami fans feel Whiteside is the biggest positive from this season.

 

[slinslin]

Bosh is a better player than Frye but the assumption that he will make a better duo is hilarious.

Chris Bosh won't run around the perimeter and set 100 picks for Goran Dragic every game, he also is not nearly as comfortable pulling up for a quick 3. He can shoot 3s but it is more catch and shoot and requires some setup.

Goran Dragic has played well? 17/5 is well? Consistently disappearing for long stretches resulting in losses in playing well? haha

Goran Dragic is a master at coming up short.

 

[SirStefan32]

It's from Goran's fault that they suck and Heat fans see Dragic as the one positive thing from this season.

I doubt he gets max contract, Pat riley isn't a moron. I have said from the beginning that all this nonsense about Dragic getting max offers was nothing but crap made by the media. Will likely get around Lowry or Bledsoe type money which isn't bad imo for a player of his caliber.

With a healthy Bosh and an improved Whiteside, Miami will still likely have more success than Phoenix next season. If the Dragic-Frye combo worked so well, Dragic-Bosh should be even better.

When this trade first happened I didn't expect Dragic to do anything in Miami this season having to learn a new system and due to having no real pick and pop partner which is a key to his game. Fact that he has actually played well for them so far surprised me a bit at least.

It's beyond that. Having lost interest in the Suns, I made it a point to watch some Heat games (Whiteside and Dragic are both fun to watch), and it was quite interesting. We all know Bosh and McRoberts will benefit from Dragic as will he from them, but it goes beyond not having those two. They have ZERO spacing. Without looking it up, I would be surprised if they shot 25% from the three-point range in the last month or two. Bosh and McRoberts will help, but your guards and small forwards have to hit some open threes as well. They have got to sign a couple of shooters for next year.

Wade also ran out of gas, as did Dragic. Both of them looked beat up for a couple of weeks now. I really can't recall a team in recent history having so many injuries. Whiteside missing those couple of games with the hand injury is what finally did them in.

They also have no bench- which is understandable. They lost two PFs to injuries, and traded a few players in the Dragic trade, but they have got to do something in the summer. You can't play two half-retired players (Anderson and Haslem) for 35 minutes per game, and Beasley for another 20, and expect to win, even in the East. Walker, Johnson, Ennis aren't gonna cut it on the wings either.

Even if your starters are healthy, you still need something off the bench. They need shooters.Wade is a terrible shooter, and Dragic and Dieng are average. Chalmers is atrocious, and Walker and TJ are inconsistent. They need to add a couple of sharp-shooters to space the floor for Wade and/or Dragic. They should be OK up front- Andersen and Haslem are fine for a few minutes per game. As long as Bosh and McRoberts don't miss much time together, they'll be fine. I'd focus on getting a Morrow or Middleton type or two on the roster. Hell, I'd go after G-Green. If they can get a couple of shooters and keep the big guys healthy, they'll take the East next year.

Oh, and I hate agreeing with Phrazbit, but Spo is a terrible coach. I wouldn't be surprised if Riley replaced him next year.

EDIT: Oh, and they need to make sure neither Dragic nor Wade pick up a basketball (other than shooting drills) the entire summer. Wade needs to just not do anything in the off season, and Dragic cannot play all summer. If they are stupid enough to give him $15M+ per year, they HAVE to make sure he will not play any international basketball.

 

[sunsfan88]

Bosh is a better player than Frye but the assumption that he will make a better duo is hilarious.

Chris Bosh won't run around the perimeter and set 100 picks for Goran Dragic every game, he also is not nearly as comfortable pulling up for a quick 3. He can shoot 3s but it is more catch and shoot and requires some setup.

Goran Dragic has played well? 17/5 is well? Consistently disappearing for long stretches resulting in losses in playing well? haha

Goran Dragic is a master at coming up short.

Bosh is better at everything than Frye other than sucking so please stop. And CB imo is top 5 most unselfish player in the NBA so if setting picks is what's needed for them for them to have success, I don't think he'll mind doing it especially since he knows his days being "the man" is numbered at his age.

And yes 17/5 is well for a guy playing in a new system mid season especially on one as injury riddled as the Heat. Actually I take that back, 17/5 is playing no matter what the situation is. It's not great or elite but your damn right is playing well.

I'm not gonna give your credibility on Dragic much thought because you were hating on him and thought he sucked even last season.

 

[sunsfan88]

It's beyond that. Having lost interest in the Suns, I made it a point to watch some Heat games (Whiteside and Dragic are both fun to watch), and it was quite interesting. We all know Bosh and McRoberts will benefit from Dragic as will he from them, but it goes beyond not having those two. They have ZERO spacing. Without looking it up, I would be surprised if they shot 25% from the three-point range in the last month or two. Bosh and McRoberts will help, but your guards and small forwards have to hit some open threes as well. They have got to sign a couple of shooters for next year.

Wade also ran out of gas, as did Dragic. Both of them looked beat up for a couple of weeks now. I really can't recall a team in recent history having so many injuries. Whiteside missing those couple of games with the hand injury is what finally did them in.

They also have no bench- which is understandable. They lost two PFs to injuries, and traded a few players in the Dragic trade, but they have got to do something in the summer. You can't play two half-retired players (Anderson and Haslem) for 35 minutes per game, and Beasley for another 20, and expect to win, even in the East. Walker, Johnson, Ennis aren't gonna cut it on the wings either.

Even if your starters are healthy, you still need something off the bench. They need shooters.Wade is a terrible shooter, and Dragic and Dieng are average. Chalmers is atrocious, and Walker and TJ are inconsistent. They need to add a couple of sharp-shooters to space the floor for Wade and/or Dragic. They should be OK up front- Andersen and Haslem are fine for a few minutes per game. As long as Bosh and McRoberts don't miss much time together, they'll be fine. I'd focus on getting a Morrow or Middleton type or two on the roster. Hell, I'd go after G-Green. If they can get a couple of shooters and keep the big guys healthy, they'll take the East next year.

Oh, and I hate agreeing with Phrazbit, but Spo is a terrible coach. I wouldn't be surprised if Riley replaced him next year.

EDIT: Oh, and they need to make sure neither Dragic nor Wade pick up a basketball (other than shooting drills) the entire summer. Wade needs to just not do anything in the off season, and Dragic cannot play all summer. If they are stupid enough to give him $15M+ per year, they HAVE to make sure he will not play any international basketball.

I wish the Suns told Dragic that he can't play international basketball after last season. San Antonio did that with Ginoboli I believe even though Manu wanted to play for Argentina.

I have been watching more Heat games lately as well because like you said Dragic and Whiteside are very fun to watch and agreed about the spacing. Even Heat fans I talk to say they need a Battier (when he was in Miami) type 3 & D guy in the lineup. Wade can't shoot, and Deng can't either. Getting Bosh and McRoberts back should help spacing a lot and not only help Dragic but rest of the team as well.

Tyler Johnson is an interestig prospect. He's better than he looks and I think he could carve out a pretty good NBA career, not sure if it will happen in Miami though.

I think Spo gets more hate from everyone than he deserves but he's a good defensive coach imo but his offense philosophy is terrible. I think they need to hire a Alvin Gentry type assistant. Heck maybe Alvin himself, he seems to be switching teams. Maybe make him the highest paid assistant or something.

I don't think they can afford Middlehton but yea Green or Morrow make sense for them.

Maybe if they cut ties with Deng and find a team to take him then they bring in a more capable shooter at the 3 as well.

On paper, they look like a top 4 team in the East to me for next season. But of course injuries and stuff can happen so who knows.

With a guy like Pat Riley though, you know their gonna find someway to get back into the mix.

 

[Phrazbit]

You might hate to agree with me but there is no disputing the Suns got much more out of Dragic in 2013/14 than at any point in his career. He is best suited to play the Manu role. A guy who can handle the ball and press the attack, BUT also does extremely well off the ball, leaking out ahead on the break, slashing lanes and running off the ball on screens. Its in that role that he had the best season of his career, and with Bledsoe and him out there together the Suns played like one of the top 5-10 teams in the league.

But Dragic solely as a PG, especially on a half court team like Miami, and you've got a guy who excels in transition... and does basically nothing else of note. He is also better at defending SGs than PGs.

If he embraced his role he'd still be here, the Suns would be better off, he would be better off.

I still don't get how people defend him as this martyr when he made it clear he only wanted to play for Miami, LA or New York. Any idea of martyrdom goes out the window when you make it clear your top priorities have nothing to do with winning.

 

[SirStefan32]

I wish the Suns told Dragic that he can't play international basketball after last season. San Antonio did that with Ginoboli I believe even though Manu wanted to play for Argentina.

I have been watching more Heat games lately as well because like you said Dragic and Whiteside are very fun to watch and agreed about the spacing. Even Heat fans I talk to say they need a Battier (when he was in Miami) type 3 & D guy in the lineup. Wade can't shoot, and Deng can't either. Getting Bosh and McRoberts back should help spacing a lot and not only help Dragic but rest of the team as well.

Tyler Johnson is an interestig prospect. He's better than he looks and I think he could carve out a pretty good NBA career, not sure if it will happen in Miami though.

I think Spo gets more hate from everyone than he deserves but he's a good defensive coach imo but his offense philosophy is terrible. I think they need to hire a Alvin Gentry type assistant. Heck maybe Alvin himself, he seems to be switching teams. Maybe make him the highest paid assistant or something.

I don't think they can afford Middlehton but yea Green or Morrow make sense for them.

Maybe if they cut ties with Deng and find a team to take him then they bring in a more capable shooter at the 3 as well.

On paper, they look like a top 4 team in the East to me for next season. But of course injuries and stuff can happen so who knows.

With a guy like Pat Riley though, you know their gonna find someway to get back into the mix.

What surprised me about him is that he can actually hold his own on the defensive end. Granted, I've seen a very small sample (10 games or so) but he seemed to be able to stay in front of his man and has a good defensive awareness. He is a decent shooter, and can get to the rim once in a while as well. If I were Miami, he would be in front of Chalmers in the rotation.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think they're the best chance to stop the Cleveland juggernaut. The Cavs will cruise to the Finals, so they really have to win only one series.

I don't remember there ever being such an imbalance of power East/West in the NBA. There are only two teams in the east that would make the playoffs in the west.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't remember there ever being such an imbalance of power East/West in the NBA. There are only two teams in the east that would make the playoffs in the west.

Its terrible but its been this way for the better part of 15 years. In the early 2000s back when New Jersey was making the Finals. They were a 1 and 2 seed with 52 and 49 wins. Right now there are only 3-4 quality teams in the East and then it gets horrible but, at least there are a few contenders. Back then the East playoffs were a sideshow, totally pointless. The West Conference Finals were the de facto title.

Its going to be hard to break the cycle unless the league changes the playoff qualifications. The West keeps having these good teams miss the playoffs, then draft in the lotto while these trash East teams stumble in by default and then draft after a bunch of teams who are clearly superior.

 

[Iceman]

Really starting to backfire on the Suns now!

https://twitter.com/nbastats/status/587692571343908866

 

[Mainstreet]

Really starting to backfire on the Suns now!

Nothing I didn't expect. If the Suns traded Dragic, why not keep IT. He likely would have been happy with his playing time if he stayed. Now the Suns do not even have a backup PG.

 

[Errntknght]

Nothing I didn't expect. If the Suns traded Dragic, why not keep IT. He likely would have been happy with his playing time if he stayed. Now the Suns do not even have a backup PG.

Thomas tossed his complaints in after Goran broke the ice and the Suns rather openly said they'd have traded him to keep Dragic happy so I imagine they assumed Isaiah would never be a happy camper after that. He performed as advertised so I don't think that was any concern. What he's doing with the Celtics should not come as a surprise.

What ticked me off about the whole welter of trades was shipping out Ennis and other nice assets for Knight - you'd think they'd have realized two combo guards don't make a PG in Hornacek's offense. Its not that Dragic and Bledsoe were bad together but they certainly didn't play to a level that would justify 28+ mil per annum. Cripes, the offense looked its best with Ishmael running it by the end of last year... I guess they just didn't notice.

 

[Mainstreet]

Thomas tossed his complaints in after Goran broke the ice and the Suns rather openly said they'd have traded him to keep Dragic happy so I imagine they assumed Isaiah would never be a happy camper after that. He performed as advertised so I don't think that was any concern. What he's doing with the Celtics should not come as a surprise.

What ticked me off about the whole welter of trades was shipping out Ennis and other nice assets for Knight - you'd think they'd have realized two combo guards don't make a PG in Hornacek's offense. Its not that Dragic and Bledsoe were bad together but they certainly didn't play to a level that would justify 28+ mil per annum. Cripes, the offense looked its best with Ishmael running it by the end of last year... I guess they just didn't notice.

I think the Suns missed on Ennis when they drafted him and they decided to move him. Only time will tell. Plumlee openly wanted out like Dragic.

 

[Errntknght]

I think the Suns missed on Ennis when they drafted him and they decided to move him. Only time will tell. Plumlee openly wanted out like Dragic.

I wasn't hyped by them drafting Ennis but after watching him play two or three game with the Jam, I was pretty sold on him. He made their offense look more organized and sharper than the Suns offense - and he was only there for a few days at a time.

While I'm on the subject I'm going to bring up what I consider another failing of Hornacek's - keeping Ennis and Goodwin here in Phoenix collecting DNPs game after game when they could have been getting tons of playing time in Bakersfield. He had six other guys that could play guard - Goran, Eric, IT, Green, Tucker and Zoran - how big of a security blanket did he need? (In a pinch TJ or Marcus could have played some at 2.)

 

[Mainstreet]

I wasn't hyped by them drafting Ennis but after watching him play two or three game with the Jam, I was pretty sold on him. He made their offense look more organized and sharper than the Suns offense - and he was only there for a few days at a time.

While I'm on the subject I'm going to bring up what I consider another failing of Hornacek's - keeping Ennis and Goodwin here in Phoenix collecting DNPs game after game when they could have been getting tons of playing time in Bakersfield. He had six other guys that could play guard - Goran, Eric, IT, Green, Tucker and Zoran - how big of a security blanket did he need? (In a pinch TJ or Marcus could have played some at 2.)

Some of the player personnel moves made by Hornacek and McDonough still baffle me. Also some of the rotations did not make sense. When Goodwin got on a good run he brought in a A.J. Price to replace him at PG. Goodwin never seemed to recover.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They have been giving Warren minutes, and his production has been spotty.