Gortat trade?

[slinslin]

He is a Robert Parrish or a Bill Laimbeer, not the focal point of the team, but those Celtic and Pistons teams don't win a championship without him.

Laimbeer(#100) and Parish(#67) are rated as top 100 players of all time by most fans. Gortat will never get in that category and that is not dissing Gortat.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1123731

 

[slinslin]

You just do NOT trade a solid center for a high draft pick or a younger player with potential. If you were talking about any other position, perhaps I'd agree with you. I do agree, try to upgrade a little and get younger at the same time but it's a really bad decision to do that with a solid center.

solid centers are not that uncommon..

You trade him in a heartbeat if you could get someone like Ricky Rubio for example which obviously would never happen since Minnesota is not stupid.

Derrick Williams and some throw ins or salary dump from our side is good value. You don't have to overstate things and ask for Derrick Williams , another lottery pick and more. Minnesota has Utah's lottery protected pick and some other conditional future picks and other young prospects that are expendable. There would be some possibilities certainly.

Derrick Williams is not in the running for rookie of the year but everyone knew that when Minnesota drafted him in a rotation with Love, Beasley, Randolph etc. He is playing decent enough in the limited and inconsistent playing time he is getting. Not particularly good but not horrible either somewhat inconsistent but I expected that to happen in that situation.

 

[Griffin]

Laimbeer(#100) and Parish(#67) are rated as top 100 players of all time by most fans. Gortat will never get in that category and that is not dissing Gortat.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1123731

Parish spent 14 years with the Celtics and helped them win three titles. Laimbeer won two titles with the Pistons. It's not a fair comparison in terms of overall career achievements as Gortat so far is the starting center for a lottery team. No one remembers players like that unless they are superstars.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Parish spent 14 years with the Celtics and helped them win three titles. Laimbeer won two titles with the Pistons. It's not a fair comparison in terms of overall career achievements as Gortat so far is the starting center for a lottery team. No one remembers players like that unless they are superstars.

I think you are missing the point. Gortat is a very good player but if he is your best player you are in trouble, we are. He is 28 and when we get good, 2 or 3 years hopefully, he will be 30. We surely will have to overpay to keep him at that point.

At this point I would ask for a lot in trade for Gortat. However if we somehow get Drummond or Davis in the draft this summer I would consider trading Gortat for a Derrrick Williams, this summer.

I would also try to land a Rivers, Lamb or Jones by trading Nash to Utah for Harris and the GS pick (Top 6 protected),now. I don't know if Utah would do it but I would if I were the Suns. Nash could make that group pretty dangerous in the short term. He also would be loved by the fan base. By trading Nash we also have a better chance of getting Drummond or Davis.

Drummond or Davis
Williams
Rivers, Lamb or Jones


That would be a group that could sell tickets, get us back on TV and in the conversation.

Back to the real world. We keep Gortat. We are mediocore at best next year. Get a mid first round and continue to be mediocore.

Rember the Fantastic Four?

Amare
Shawn
JJ
Nash

We need to find a young group like that before we can really get good again. That is the whole point of this conversation.

Imagine if we could have added Gortat to that group, wow.

I guess it would have been: (JJ was traded prior Marcin's draft year).

Gortat
Amare
Shawn
Raja
Nash

Boris
LB

Not bad. No need for KT etc etc etc.

This is all fantassy at this point but it is better to talk and think about than the current roster we have to watch.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Laimbeer(#100) and Parish(#67) are rated as top 100 players of all time by most fans. Gortat will never get in that category and that is not dissing Gortat.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1123731

Both of them were no more than the third best players on their respective teams. Isiah, Dumars, then Laimbeer (you also had Dantley and maybe even Rodman that were better). For the Celtics, Bird, McHale, then Parrish, but some could make the case that Dennis Johnson was better.

I believe that list overrates those two, and from remembering them (I watched more NBA then than now) and watching Gortat, he has a very good chance of being in that class of player. Just my opinion.

 

[Covert Rain]

solid centers are not that uncommon.

First off "solid centers" needs to be defined. Is that center Good? Is that center average?

Big men are a commodity in this league. To trade away a big man for a PG is sheer stupidity.

I guess terrible fan GM'n is not that uncommon either.

 

[BC867]

Gortat is not a budding star...

OK, Gortat is a necessary ingredient for success. For a team to have and for fans to enjoy.

Are you ever going to tell us why you are not happy with that?

 

[Black Jesus]

As much as I like Gortat, to call him a star is a gross overstatement.

He is a serviceable player, whose value looks increased because he is on a subpar team that is being kept from complete disaster by a former superstar known for making other players look better than they are (Stoudemire, JJ, Q, Hunter, TT).

He is no different than Brook Lopez on the Nets, or Humphries on the Nets. They are average players that put up above average numbers because the team doesn't have enough alternatives.

I am not saying that Gortat could not start on a contender, I am just saying that he would be your 4th or 5th option, and a damn good one at that if you are looking to contend.

We need to completely blow this team up and load up picks for this upcoming draft. Harrison Barnes, Perry Jones, etc, etc.

 

[Gaddabout]

They traded Nance for KJ and some role players.

The role players were Mark West and Ty Corbin. One started, and one played considerable minutes while usually guarding the opposition's best wing player. That trade will probably never be matched by the Suns again. Serendipity.

 

[Gaddabout]

I love Gortat, but he is who is and there is no more height to his career arc. He's the featured player on offense now, and as much as he's exceeded expectations as a passer, the team will never get beyond where it's at with him as a feature piece.

Normally I'd be all on board with keeping him and adding other pieces so he can be a complimentary player, but I'm not sure the Suns can get there fast enough. It's a gamble either way, but as much as I'd hate to trade him -- as much as I hated the idea of trading Nance -- you have to pull the trigger on a decent trade that puts the Suns in a better overall position in terms of personnel over the next two or three years. The Suns can't afford the luxury of keeping a B+ center if it comes at the expense of making a dramatic leap forward in the rebuilding process.

That said, my preference would still be keeping him and using savvy drafting and free agent signings to build the team over a 3-year period. I don't see anyone valuing Gortat ENOUGH to make a trade worth pulling, and centers as good as Gortat DON'T come along very often in our universe. But, really, do any of you have any faith in the Suns scouting and draft team to pull off a rebuild like that?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

, do any of you have any faith in the Suns scouting and draft team to pull off a rebuild like that?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Pretty bleak days in Suns land.

 

[mojorizen7]

Gortat and Morris are the future of this team.

The sooner the Suns realize that trading Nash is what's best for this team, the better.

Amen.

 

[slinslin]

But, really, do any of you have any faith in the Suns scouting and draft team to pull off a rebuild like that?

It is not a matter of faith because it is almost impossible to be a very good team in the NBA if you can't draft well.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It is not a matter of faith because it is almost impossible to be a very good team in the NBA if you can't draft well.

Especially since we've shifted our focus from the draft to FA. Brilliant!

 

[Gaddabout]

It is not a matter of faith because it is almost impossible to be a very good team in the NBA if you can't draft well.

Very good point!

 

[JS22]

Some of you are seriously undervaluing Gortat. The Suns FINALLY found a legit center and you want to throw him away for "potential and a draft pick?" Seriously? By the end of the season he'll probably end up averaging 18/12. Not to mention he plays very good defense. You don't just dump that after spending your entire existence trying to find a center like him.

At this point you may as well see if Nash will return for another year or two, grab a couple of free agents with the mountain of cap space you have, and try and make another couple of runs at it.

A guy like Eric Gordon would look good on this team. Hell, even OJ Mayo since his value is low and he could come cheap. The Suns need someone who can score without needing to be spoon-fed.

 

[JS22]

I guess you and I are in the minority on Gortat. He is a GOOD player, far from great and I would trade him for a younger player with potential or a high draft pick given the choice. He is not the type of player you build a franchise around. He is the type of player you add when you have a couple of franchise players.

My major concern with him, if I were the owner, is that he is boring. Yes he is. I doubt that is going to improve either. Franchise players not only can play, they sell tickets. I really doubt that anyone has bought season tickets with the anticipation of watching him play. The team needs to find a franchise player in the worst way.

However if there are no good deals to be had for him, youth and or high draft picks, I would keep him. He is probably our best player not named Nash. I definitely would not dump him for nothing.

Drummond or Gortat - Take your pick.

Gortat. You don't trade one of the top centers in the league for potential. What happens if Drummond is a massive bust at the NBA level?

 

[Covert Rain]

Gortat. You don't trade one of the top centers in the league for potential. What happens if Drummond is a massive bust at the NBA level?

Agree 100%. Unless your getting the #1 draft pick and that guy is lock, trading Gortat is stupid.

 

[slinslin]

lol you must be delusional to take Gortat over Drummond seriously.. there is 0% chance though that any team with the #2 pick would give it up for Gortat.

 

[jagu]

lol you must be delusional to take Gortat over Drummond seriously.. there is 0% chance though that any team with the #2 pick would give it up for Gortat.

Better for us. We'll keep him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Some of you are seriously undervaluing Gortat. The Suns FINALLY found a legit center and you want to throw him away for "potential and a draft pick?" Seriously? By the end of the season he'll probably end up averaging 18/12. Not to mention he plays very good defense. You don't just dump that after spending your entire existence trying to find a center like him.

At this point you may as well see if Nash will return for another year or two, grab a couple of free agents with the mountain of cap space you have, and try and make another couple of runs at it.

good god... make another run... by overspending on really mediocre FAs and a 40 year old PG?! If that doesn't sound like an exercise in futility and just pushing the absolutely necessary rebuild even further down the road, I don't know what does.

that being said, it's probably exactly what the retards over at Suns headquarters are planning on doing.

 

[JS22]

good god... make another run... by overspending on really mediocre FAs and a 40 year old PG?! If that doesn't sound like an exercise in futility and just pushing the absolutely necessary rebuild even further down the road, I don't know what does.

that being said, it's probably exactly what the retards over at Suns headquarters are planning on doing.

Unfortunately I think it's safe to say that Sarver isn't going to "blow it up." At this point all I can really hope for is that the Suns spend their FA money wisely. They desperately need someone who can create their own shot and take the pressure off of the other shooters.

Nash is still playing at an elite level. So I don't see the harm in bringing him back for another year or two. (If it's a reasonable deal and IF he actually wanted to come back.) If the Suns can find a legit scorer and add a few decent role players in the offseason I think they'll be good enough to at least make some noise.

I'm all for 3 years of misery if it means getting back to the top for the next 6 years or so after that. But I don't see it happening. Sarver is going to milk this as long as he can so we may as well bring Nash back and add some pieces.

 

[slinslin]

Nash is still playing at an elite level. So I don't see the harm in bringing him back for another year or two. (If it's a reasonable deal and IF he actually wanted to come back.) If the Suns can find a legit scorer and add a few decent role players in the offseason I think they'll be good enough to at least make some noise.

Oh no... even if the Suns got Eric Gordon which they won't they would be at best lucky to sneak into the playoffs.

 

[elindholm]

Unfortunately I think it's safe to say that Sarver isn't going to "blow it up."

It's already blown up! What more do you want? Maybe it's possible to trade Nash for a late first-round pick, fine, big deal, one extra pick in the 20s isn't going to make that much difference to a rebuilding team. What you see is something that is blown up. This is what a blow-up looks like. There is no more up to blow.

I've yet to read a single coherent description of how "blowing it up" would differ from what the Suns are doing right now. There are some who continue to harbor the fantasy that Nash could be traded for significant young talent, but that's simply untrue. It's plenty easy to criticize moves that Suns have made in the past few years, but since this season started, I haven't seen anything that makes me think that a blow-up isn't already in progress.

And if you don't believe me, just listen to Nash. "We aren't a very talented team." "We'll take any win we can get this year." "I like the organization and I want to stick around and help them rebuild." He can't get much clearer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's already blown up! What more do you want? Maybe it's possible to trade Nash for a late first-round pick, fine, big deal, one extra pick in the 20s isn't going to make that much difference to a rebuilding team. What you see is something that is blown up. This is what a blow-up looks like. There is no more up to blow.

I've yet to read a single coherent description of how "blowing it up" would differ from what the Suns are doing right now. There are some who continue to harbor the fantasy that Nash could be traded for significant young talent, but that's simply untrue. It's plenty easy to criticize moves that Suns have made in the past few years, but since this season started, I haven't seen anything that makes me think that a blow-up isn't already in progress.

And if you don't believe me, just listen to Nash. "We aren't a very talented team." "We'll take any win we can get this year." "I like the organization and I want to stick around and help them rebuild." He can't get much clearer.

trading nash, not for the assets he might bring (and i'd argue that a late first round pick is at least a small percent chance of reaping something of value), but because it would cause this team to lose to the likes of NO, thereby increasing our chances of higher draft pick. that's the way you truly blow this mutha up!