Graves Not Opposed To Giving Up High 2012 Draft Pick For QB

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

This thread could use some Kevin Kolb video links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEI331uXFZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOqrCm_yctY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F_22a7HXvg&feature=related

I'm starting to come around to the idea of trading a first for him. Mostly because that looks like what's going to happen. The Bears gave up 2 firsts, a third and a veteran QB for Cutler. I'd much rather do a first for Kolb. A first and DRC or Beanie, however, still seems like too much.

I am not happy about Kolb, not only do I think he is highly overrated, over valued, and over hyped, he has had multiple concussions that have greatly affected him...

No thanks, unless its a 3rd round pick...

 

[Dayman]

I am not happy about Kolb, not only do I think he is highly overrated, over valued, and over hyped, he has had multiple concussions that have greatly affected him...

No thanks, unless its a 3rd round pick...

I'm not ecstatic about it, either. Trading away a first round pick the year after you went 5-11 seems insane to me. But this FO is remarkably straightforward. Usually to the point where we think what they're saying is misdirection because we aren't used to that sort of candor in sports.

If multiple reports are saying we're interested in Kolb, and Rod, for some reason, went public with the willingness to give up a first, that's probably what will happen. I might as well get used to the idea. And if it doesn't happen, I'll be a bit relieved. At least until I have to sit through a season of Bulger/Skelton/Bartel.

 

[CardEd]

You've perfectly captured in your post the true horror of being a Cardinal fan

We've tried a few times and busted out but it's just incredible how we avoid the first pick in the draft.

Comment really pertains to Russ---If (there I go again) you really want to guarantee a disaster next year...start Hall and keep Anderson or visa versa), cut Skelton, bring in Todd Collins. On top of that, let KW continue on as OC as well as head coach. That is the formula.

Or we get replacement players to play this season......oh wait.......

 

[Totally_Red]

I would NOT trade a first for Kolb period!

Bret Freakin' Favre was traded for a third which could elevate to a second. Kevin Kolb is no Bret Favre. Philly has to trade him now if they want anything in return.

Offer no more than a 2012 second round pick. If Graves trades the first round pick, he's not just a lousy GM, he's incompetent.

 

[Cardiac]

I haven't been high on Kolb but I am changing my mind. One of the factors in determining when a player should be drafted is based on how soon they can contribute and get on the field. IIRC Reid traded up a bit to get Kolb in the 2nd rd. Why would he want to accept less value for a player who has had some success (although limited) in the NFL and at the most highly valued position in the NFL. Maybe Kolb goes in rd1 the year he was drafted if teams felt he was much closer to starting immediately.

Kolb has been trained by a quality staff. His learning curve is very far along. There are several teams in the Kolb derby so several FO's feel he is a good to excellent QB waiting for his shot.

I know he had one concussion but haven't heard of any others.

If you feel uneasy about giving up a 1st rd pick + change then watch some tape of the Cards with DA and Hall playing.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

If multiple reports are saying we're interested in Kolb, and Rod, for some reason, went public with the willingness to give up a first, that's probably what will happen.

Typical Rod always negotiating vs. himself...

 

[JeffGollin]

I hate the idea of giving up a #1 for anyone (including Kolb).

What if we traded Skelton plus a 2012 second or third round pick for Palmer (or, yechh! Kolb) and then signed Hasselbeck as a FA #2 backup?

 

[Pariah]

I don't think Hasselbeck is interested in finishing his career on the bench. I doubt we could get him here in that scenario.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah, I think Palmer has lost the fire in the belly. What if he comes here and we struggle early? He's just as likely to pout and turtle up as to be fighting through it. I mean, he's soured on the Bengals and I don't think we're viewed as all THAT much better of a franchise yet.

I can see that line of thinking. My thing is I think there's a very SPECIFIC reason that Palmer soured on the Bengals and it wasn't just losing, it was because of all the absolute nonsense he had to put up with there over the years because management kept bringing in one immature player after another and getting burned over and over.

I also think people overlook the impact the death of Chris Henry had on that team and I think it really bothered Palmer, not so much because he was close to Henry, but because it so clearly illustrated what had been wrong with that organization. Palmer had been apparently saying to management behind the scenes for awhile we need to clean up, this is embarassing, it's unprofessional and it's not conducive to winning games, they kept saying we hear you, and then doing it again, including giving Henry multiple chances until he finally tragically died.

I mean the Cards lost a lot and made some terrible moves but we weren't asking Kurt Warner to play with Chad Johnson, TO and deal with a guy like henry who was so talented and so troubled off the field.

I think Palmer just got tired of them paying lip service to the problem and when they went out and got TO that was the last straw for him, he just said it's obvious they don't think this is a problem.

I personally think he'd love to play with guys like Fitz and Breaston who want to win and aren't going to pout like the guys he dealt with in Cincy did.

 

[jlove]

Very true. I think a lot of the hype around Kolb and previously with Shaub is derived from projection rather than their production up to that point. Kolb has played very sporadically and we all know a QB needs consistency, regular playtime to work the playbook on the field and lots of reps so that they are comfortable with all the routes, blocking schemes, play calls etc that a QB needs to have for them succeed. That means that often teams have to project what a QB would be able to do if he were given a starting job and an attack tailored to his strengths and capabilities. That projection is so hard to do with the limited action these type of QB's often see.

I actually do think there is a lot of substance to this trade rumor and the way the Cards have drafted this year makes you think that even more. They have drafted as if they are building around a top quarterback in trying to give him ammunition and build an offense for him. Taking a TE that could stretch the field and take safeties away from the prime receiver, rebuilding the running attack with Ryan Williams, finding a lead blocking FB in Sherman all leads to me thinking they have a very specific plan in mind in the rebuild of the offense. Knowing that such a plan would start from knowing what sort of QB you have, it would lead you to think they have a very good idea of who they want and in all likelihood when and how they will get him.

The key to a potential Kolb trade is also what they do to the O-line in free agency if or when the new CBA is agreed.

I also believe our draft was done the way it was done cause we knew who our QB is going to be and wanted to get them more offensive targets. I went back and looked at a few of the possible QB aquisitionables that have been mentioned as possibles for the Cards and looked at the TE usage from those teams/QB's..........

Palmer/Cincy - 65 cought passes from their TE position
Kolb/Eagles - 53 cought passes from their TE position
Bulger/Ravens - 52 cought passes from their TE position
Bulger/Rams - 70 cought passes from their TE position (2 years ago when Bulger was there)

QB Carousel/Cardinals - 25 cought passes from their TE position

So, needless to say the TE comes in big for the 3 QB's that have been linked to the Cards. Adding a deep threat/seam catching TE bodes well for the QB we get. Plus we all know that the Steelers use the TE a lot as well (51 cought passes from their TE position), and tht is the type of team that Whiz has been trying to build here. Adding Williams, just helps strengthen the weak RB trio we have.