Graves Not Opposed To Giving Up High 2012 Draft Pick For QB

[Cbus cardsfan]

People are worried about giving a #1 worried about Luck. More realistic is, would you give about the 25th pick for Kolb? If the Cards land Kolb they are likely a playoff team and drafting late. Luck should have zero impact on a Kolb trade. Nobody is going to trade the rights to Luck. There's a 97% chance we don't get Luck next year. I say deal the pick for Kolb.

 

[joeshmo]

Niether Matt Cassel or Schaub were traded for a first round pick, I don't see why everybody thinks Kolb is worth one? Kolb does not have a better track record than either of these guys when they were dealt.

Kolb does have a better track record then Schaub who at the time of his trading had only a 69 QB rating if I remember right. Kolb currently has a higher QB rating then Schaub did when he was traded. Schaub was also traded for two 2nd round picks and a swap of 1st rounders(ATL moved up two picks I think from 10 to 8), all of that most definently is equivalant to a 1st rounder.

Cassel had a better track record without a doubt, but he was also traded to a team full of NE cronies and NE buddies. No one saw that trade coming.

 

[joeshmo]

People are worried about giving a #1 worried about Luck. More realistic is, would you give about the 25th pick for Kolb? If the Cards land Kolb they are likely a playoff team and drafting late. Luck should have zero impact on a Kolb trade. Nobody is going to trade the rights to Luck. There's a 97% chance we don't get Luck next year. I say deal the pick for Kolb.

I think the better question is would you trade the #2 QB in the 2012 Draft for Kolb. It is highly unlikely we get a #1 pick, for all the sucky years we have never actually had the #1 pick in like 50+ years. The more likely scenerio is we are sitting at #5 and most likely looking at taking a QB such as USC Matt Barkley.

So do you want Kolb or Barkley as the 1st round pick worst case scenerio? Which also comes with letting Fitz leaving in free agency, becasue no matter the money he is not re-signing with a rookie at the helm in 2012.

 

[TRW]

What has Kolb done to warrant either a 2nd or 1st round pick in return? Is he REALLY that good? Or, is he another A. J. Feely and will get a big contract only to be a career backup? Another Andy Reid QB touted to be the "next big thing" a few years ago.

Career
Games 19
Completions 194
Attempts 319
Comp. % 60.8
Yds 2082
Yds per compl 6.5
TD 11
Int 14
Rating 73.2

Granted, compared to the Anderson/Hall clown show last year that doesn't look horrible. But, are those stats worth a multi-year, multi-million dollar, franchise QB contract? Not sure that Mr. Kolb is the answer.

I wouldn't do it, but it is sounding more and more as if he is on his way to the desert.

 

[desertdawg]

I think the better question is would you trade the #2 QB in the 2012 Draft for Kolb. It is highly unlikely we get a #1 pick, for all the sucky years we have never actually had the #1 pick in like 50+ years. The more likely scenerio is we are sitting at #5 and most likely looking at taking a QB such as USC Matt Barkley.

So do you want Kolb or Barkley as the 1st round pick worst case scenerio? Which also comes with letting Fitz leaving in free agency, becasue no matter the money he is not re-signing with a rookie at the helm in 2012.

Plus Kolb will have had a year here already at that point, and all the timing with Fitz/co and the rookies that comes with it.

 

[Dayman]

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=292&sid=474512

Here's what Schefter said on NFL Live on Tuesday:


"I think that when the lockout is lifted, there's no doubt that the Philadelphia Eagles are going to trade Kevin Kolb. I think at this point in time, it's fairly certain that he's going to wind up in the NFC West. Right now, all signs point to Kevin Kolb somehow finding his way to Arizona, which would make Larry Fitzgerald very happy, which would make the Cardinals an instant contender in the NFC West, and it would make them the team that they were a couple of years ago when Kurt Warner was playing quarterback, rather than last year when they had the quarterback carousel.


"Kevin Kolb is going to get dealt from Philadelphia, most likely going to be to the NFC West, and right now all signs point to Arizona."

 

[Brewster10]

Kolb for a likely Top 10 or Top 15 pick... oh boy, what a disaster that would be IMO..

Seriously, what has Kolb done to warrant that type of trade value?

Second rounder is the maximum IMO..

 

[Pariah]

What has Kolb done to warrant either a 2nd or 1st round pick in return?

A lot of tmes it's not what the QB has actualy done when we're talking about these guys who are up and comers but stuck in a situation where they don't have a legit chance to start. It's about their development and what coaches are seeing(and saying) in (and about) them.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think the better question is would you trade the #2 QB in the 2012 Draft for Kolb. It is highly unlikely we get a #1 pick, for all the sucky years we have never actually had the #1 pick in like 50+ years. The more likely scenerio is we are sitting at #5 and most likely looking at taking a QB such as USC Matt Barkley.

So do you want Kolb or Barkley as the 1st round pick worst case scenerio? Which also comes with letting Fitz leaving in free agency, becasue no matter the money he is not re-signing with a rookie at the helm in 2012.

I agree about Fitz. If the plan is to try and get a QB in next year's draft, they may as well blow the whole thing up and start over. The Cards are a QB away from ruling the division for the next 3-5 years. All we need to do is look at SF and what the years they have wasted waiting for Alex Smith to develope.

 

[PaulW]

Skelton has better upside than Kolb; and has a bigger arm and is much more accurate. What has Kolb done to make him worth a 1st round pick, maybe a 3rd or 4th? I would rather have Bulger or Palmer in the Card's offense.

I would rather use the pick to build the offenise line, but first sign Justin Blalock, Falcons to play left guard. He woul make Levi better. Both the Falcons guards are FAs and probably can not sign both. Maybe add Sean Locklear, Seahawks would be an excellent addition, either as a starter or a backup. He's not very happy with the Seahawks since they cut his salary last year. Has acouple of years left.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree about Fitz. If the plan is to try and get a QB in next year's draft, they may as well blow the whole thing up and start over. The Cards are a QB away from ruling the division for the next 3-5 years. All we need to do is look at SF and what the years they have wasted waiting for Alex Smith to develope.

yup. we're in win now mode and with our division, i think an average QB wins it for us for the next couple years and i believe that's what Kolb will be at worst. at best, he's decent and maybe we go on a Seattle type run of success.

bottom line, i'm ok giving up next year's 1st rounder for him.

 

[Monty]

A lot of tmes it's not what the QB has actualy done when we're talking about these guys who are up and comers but stuck in a situation where they don't have a legit chance to start. It's about their development and what coaches are seeing(and saying) in (and about) them.

Very true. I think a lot of the hype around Kolb and previously with Shaub is derived from projection rather than their production up to that point. Kolb has played very sporadically and we all know a QB needs consistency, regular playtime to work the playbook on the field and lots of reps so that they are comfortable with all the routes, blocking schemes, play calls etc that a QB needs to have for them succeed. That means that often teams have to project what a QB would be able to do if he were given a starting job and an attack tailored to his strengths and capabilities. That projection is so hard to do with the limited action these type of QB's often see.

I actually do think there is a lot of substance to this trade rumor and the way the Cards have drafted this year makes you think that even more. They have drafted as if they are building around a top quarterback in trying to give him ammunition and build an offense for him. Taking a TE that could stretch the field and take safeties away from the prime receiver, rebuilding the running attack with Ryan Williams, finding a lead blocking FB in Sherman all leads to me thinking they have a very specific plan in mind in the rebuild of the offense. Knowing that such a plan would start from knowing what sort of QB you have, it would lead you to think they have a very good idea of who they want and in all likelihood when and how they will get him.

The key to a potential Kolb trade is also what they do to the O-line in free agency if or when the new CBA is agreed.

 

[desertdawg]

Very true. I think a lot of the hype around Kolb and previously with Shaub is derived from projection rather than their production up to that point. Kolb has played very sporadically and we all know a QB needs consistency, regular playtime to work the playbook on the field and lots of reps so that they are comfortable with all the routes, blocking schemes, play calls etc that a QB needs to have for them succeed. That means that often teams have to project what a QB would be able to do if he were given a starting job and an attack tailored to his strengths and capabilities. That projection is so hard to do with the limited action these type of QB's often see.

I actually do think there is a lot of substance to this trade rumor and the way the Cards have drafted this year makes you think that even more. They have drafted as if they are building around a top quarterback in trying to give him ammunition and build an offense for him. Taking a TE that could stretch the field and take safeties away from the prime receiver, rebuilding the running attack with Ryan Williams, finding a lead blocking FB in Sherman all leads to me thinking they have a very specific plan in mind in the rebuild of the offense. Knowing that such a plan would start from knowing what sort of QB you have, it would lead you to think they have a very good idea of who they want and in all likelihood when and how they will get him.

The key to a potential Kolb trade is also what they do to the O-line in free agency if or when the new CBA is agreed.

Whiz is going to be like "Stack the boxes on me now suckas."

 

[Pariah]

Very true. I think a lot of the hype around Kolb and previously with Shaub is derived from projection rather than their production up to that point.

...and Hasselbeck. And Delhomme.

 

[sportznutt]

What if we trade a first and get a 2nd?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

A lot of tmes it's not what the QB has actualy done when we're talking about these guys who are up and comers but stuck in a situation where they don't have a legit chance to start. It's about their development and what coaches are seeing(and saying) in (and about) them.

No kidding. By this line of reasoning what has Andrew Luck ever done in the NFL that warrents a 1st round pick

Kolb is seen as a good prospect and its just icing on the cake that he has ANY NFL experience IMO. Thats how you have to look at it. He has had a limited sample size to make a decision one way or the other. What you have to look at is his decision making and physical makeup. Been researching him a bit and apparently his quick release is dare I say Kurt Warneresque which makes me understand why the Cardinals are considering him. Not to mention he has mobility, is accurate, and shown to be a good locker room guy who works hard.

Just like someone else pointed out with Matt Schaub. He didn't have the numbers that would seem to dictate a high pick but you could see he could play. I think Kolb has shown that too. He just lacks consistency which is a lot to ask when you start at most 3 games in a row.

Supposedly his weakness is downfield accuracy. Well thats not as much a part of this offense as witnesed by Kurts last year where he was effective but never threw the ball downfield. Just give it Larry on the slant on the money and THATS your downfield play.

Anyway I like this potential move and unless Kolb gets hurt snap one I don't see us being in the running for Luck if he plays any reasonable amount of games.

Im just worried the lockout is gonna screw this all up.

I vacilate between wanting Palmer and Kolb but if they are both going to cost a 1st rounder, I would rather pay that for Kolb.

 

[Monty]

...and Hasselbeck. And Delhomme.

Yep, just evidence that there are those capable of achieving their projections and those that are not. Also it raises the issue of some teams being good and credible with their projections and some not so.

 

[Pariah]

No kidding. By this line of reasoning what has Andrew Luck ever done in the NFL that warrents a 1st round pick

I don't know where you got that I was stating an either/or case.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I don't know where you got that I was stating an either/or case.

Homey I was agreeing with you. My eye roll was meant for TRW's line of thinking, not yours. I am saying I agree that with Kolb you cant just look at the numbers and say "oh hes only worth a 6th round pick." Thats not how it works.

I was saying you have to evaluate Kolb similarly to how you would have to evaluate a Andrew Luck (although being a bit extreme with the analogy admittedly) and look at his skills and what type of prospect he is rather then try to analyze his meager NFL stats.

 

[Pariah]

Homey I was agreeing with you. My eye roll was meant for TRW's line of thinking, not yours.

My bad. Carry on!

 

[DoTheDew]

yup. we're in win now mode and with our division, i think an average QB wins it for us for the next couple years and i believe that's what Kolb will be at worst. at best, he's decent and maybe we go on a Seattle type run of success.

bottom line, i'm ok giving up next year's 1st rounder for him.

If we're in win now mode we should go for someone who is a more known commodity like Palmer or even Orton. Kolb has the highest ceiling of all the options, but he is far from a proven winner. Warner says Palmer is the best option for us, I agree.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we're in win now mode we should go for someone who is a more known commodity like Palmer or even Orton. Kolb has the highest ceiling of all the options, but he is far from a proven winner. Warner says Palmer is the best option for us, I agree.

i could care less what Warner thinks, unless he thinks he's getting back on the field.

Palmer continually made the worst decisions at key moments over and over again. dude just looked shot last year. And Orton? meh.

if we're gonna give up a high pick (and either a 1 or a 2 is a high pick) swing for the fences with a guy who's upside is much higher than Orton's or Palmer's IMO.

 

[Dayman]

This thread could use some Kevin Kolb video links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEI331uXFZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOqrCm_yctY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F_22a7HXvg&feature=related

I'm starting to come around to the idea of trading a first for him. Mostly because that looks like what's going to happen. The Bears gave up 2 firsts, a third and a veteran QB for Cutler. I'd much rather do a first for Kolb. A first and DRC or Beanie, however, still seems like too much.

 

[ajcardfan]

i could care less what Warner thinks, unless he thinks he's getting back on the field.

Palmer continually made the worst decisions at key moments over and over again. dude just looked shot last year. And Orton? meh.

if we're gonna give up a high pick (and either a 1 or a 2 is a high pick) swing for the fences with a guy who's upside is much higher than Orton's or Palmer's IMO.

Yeah, I think Palmer has lost the fire in the belly. What if he comes here and we struggle early? He's just as likely to pout and turtle up as to be fighting through it. I mean, he's soured on the Bengals and I don't think we're viewed as all THAT much better of a franchise yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I think Palmer has lost the fire in the belly. What if he comes here and we struggle early? He's just as likely to pout and turtle up as to be fighting through it. I mean, he's soured on the Bengals and I don't think we're viewed as all THAT much better of a franchise yet.

agreed.

I want someone young, FRESH, who's DYING to prove themselves.

I don't think Koln needs to the be the next great QB or ever will be, but could he be a Hasselback? i think the possibility's there and that guy dominated a weak division for 5 years and won his team multiple home playoff games. i'd be satisfied with that for at least a couple years before i called for that guy's head.