Graves Not Opposed To Giving Up High 2012 Draft Pick For QB

[Russ Smith]

Here is my argument as a huge Andrew Luck fan who would kill to have him as a Cardinal.

The Cards have been terrible for most of my lifetime save 98 and the recent success with Warner.

in all time how many times have we had the #1 overall pick... ZERO. Why do people worry so much that we might lose the chance to get Luck if we trade that pick? After all these years why would we assume that THIS season is going to be the one we're finally bad enough to get the first pick.

With even marginally good QB play we win 3 more games last season, I don't know how good Kolb will be(I prefer Palmer) but I gotta believe he would have been better than Anderson or Max Hall or Skelton last year.

If we really want to get Andrew Luck then cut Anderson, start Skelton with Max as the backup and tank the season. But to worry that if we trade the first pick for a QB we might lose out on Luck seems wrongminded to me.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Any QB that we get will get destroyed behind the current OL that we have.

 

[Shane]

Here is my argument as a huge Andrew Luck fan who would kill to have him as a Cardinal.

The Cards have been terrible for most of my lifetime save 98 and the recent success with Warner.

in all time how many times have we had the #1 overall pick... ZERO. Why do people worry so much that we might lose the chance to get Luck if we trade that pick? After all these years why would we assume that THIS season is going to be the one we're finally bad enough to get the first pick.

With even marginally good QB play we win 3 more games last season, I don't know how good Kolb will be(I prefer Palmer) but I gotta believe he would have been better than Anderson or Max Hall or Skelton last year.

If we really want to get Andrew Luck then cut Anderson, start Skelton with Max as the backup and tank the season. But to worry that if we trade the first pick for a QB we might lose out on Luck seems wrongminded to me.

100% agree. Anyone hoping to get luck is just living a pipe dream. Even with a crappy QB this team has too much talent all around to win that sweepstakes.

 

[Seandonic]

Yup. If you have a guy out there that you truly believe is a "franchise" QB and you have the ability to attain him? You make that move.

A first round is a high pick. But if that QB turns out to be what you wanted you will be set for a decade at the most important position on the field. Well worth a first rounder(or DRC but not both).

^This^

 

[conraddobler]

100% agree. Anyone hoping to get luck is just living a pipe dream. Even with a crappy QB this team has too much talent all around to win that sweepstakes.

Hope won't do it, you'd have to mean it, as in tank the thing on purpose to get there.

He's one player I'd consider doing that for, and I said consider, I would not actually do it in most situations.

 

[conraddobler]

Here is my argument as a huge Andrew Luck fan who would kill to have him as a Cardinal.

The Cards have been terrible for most of my lifetime save 98 and the recent success with Warner.

in all time how many times have we had the #1 overall pick... ZERO. Why do people worry so much that we might lose the chance to get Luck if we trade that pick? After all these years why would we assume that THIS season is going to be the one we're finally bad enough to get the first pick.

With even marginally good QB play we win 3 more games last season, I don't know how good Kolb will be(I prefer Palmer) but I gotta believe he would have been better than Anderson or Max Hall or Skelton last year.

If we really want to get Andrew Luck then cut Anderson, start Skelton with Max as the backup and tank the season. But to worry that if we trade the first pick for a QB we might lose out on Luck seems wrongminded to me.

You've perfectly captured in your post the true horror of being a Cardinal fan.

We never get the first pick in the draft, yet you can make a case we've been the worst team in football for 30+ years and we never draft a franchise QB.

The closest franchise QB we've ever had drafting wise is probably Jake Plummer, unless you want to go back into the 60's and that's getting too far back to worry about now.

Hart wasn't even drafted and.... and we drafted Joe Namath but he refused to sign with us.

So I was just saying that sometime it'd be nice with all these losses to string them together in just such a fashion as to get a Manning.

How about a list of HOF QB's we've passed on?

I know Montana was one, but that's slightly unfair.

Farve was one too.

Brady was another.

They WILL be in the HOF, I know there are others and we never "needed" one when then came up or no one knew, etc.

Maybe, just maybe we just suck at this?

I know the situation dictates a lot of this but it's just funky how we keep dodging drafting a great QB.

We've tried a few times and busted out but it's just incredible how we avoid the first pick in the draft.

 

[ajcardfan]

Kolb will be traded and it's going to be for a second round pick, tops.

 

[Shane]

Kolb will be traded and it's going to be for a second round pick, tops.

I'm not so sure he is a surefire trade wating to happen. His cap figure is VERY low. Vick is a big injury risk. Andy Reid like Kolb. I could see them just keeping him too.

 

[Folster]

I'm not so sure he is a surefire trade wating to happen. His cap figure is VERY low. Vick is a big injury risk. Andy Reid like Kolb. I could see them just keeping him too.

Then they lose him for nothing unless they scrap Vick and decide to resign him.

 

[lobo]

We could end up with the #1 or #2 pick next year. Graves would be a complete idiot to give up a #1 for Kolb plus have to pay him a large salary and likely a long contract. That just makes no sense what so ever. If there is some QB that is a starter that some team for what ever reason may want to trade then it would depend who that person might be. No one on my radar fits a trade for our #1 pick next year. I prefer to stand pat, sign the best we can in FA without giving up picks and go for broke next season.

Should the team land Kolb (I hope), they certainly will not end up with the 1/2 pick....as a matter of fact if they land any of the usual suspects they will have a winning record.

 

[lobo]

I'm not so sure he is a surefire trade wating to happen. His cap figure is VERY low. Vick is a big injury risk. Andy Reid like Kolb. I could see them just keeping him too.

Everyone take a deep breath and leave the emotions at the door. Will we agree that Reid is a good to excellent judge of QB talent? If you feel that way...continue on....Kolb has been watching and learning from not only a top notch group of coaches, but DMc as well. Reid pulled the trigger (as the Navy Seals say) when he knew Kolb was ready. Unfortunate for him he got hurt last year and Vick was unreal he didn't get his job back. Reid now figures instead of getting nothing for the guy, let's max out. I can easily name four or five qb's who really developed under Reid.

 

[TJ]

Yup. If you have a guy out there that you truly believe is a "franchise" QB and you have the ability to attain him? You make that move.

A first round is a high pick. But if that QB turns out to be what you wanted you will be set for a decade at the most important position on the field. Well worth a first rounder(or DRC but not both).

Exactly.

This front office needs to learn to take risks rather than waiting for bargain basement free agents to fall into their laps. Does it sound like a lopsided deal in favor of Philly on the surface? Absolutely. However, if the result of the trade is the QBoF for at least 8 years, we made a stellar move. In addition to which, if it means we get to the playoffs next season, then our 2012 pick is no earlier than 21, so it would not be a significant loss IMO.

 

[lobo]

You've perfectly captured in your post the true horror of being a Cardinal fan.


We've tried a few times and busted out but it's just incredible how we avoid the first pick in the draft.

Comment really pertains to Russ---If (there I go again) you really want to guarantee a disaster next year...start Hall and keep Anderson or visa versa), cut Skelton, bring in Todd Collins. On top of that, let KW continue on as OC as well as head coach. That is the formula.

 

[DoTheDew]

Everyone take a deep breath and leave the emotions at the door. Will we agree that Reid is a good to excellent judge of QB talent? If you feel that way...continue on....Kolb has been watching and learning from not only a top notch group of coaches, but DMc as well. Reid pulled the trigger (as the Navy Seals say) when he knew Kolb was ready. Unfortunate for him he got hurt last year and Vick was unreal he didn't get his job back. Reid now figures instead of getting nothing for the guy, let's max out. I can easily name four or five qb's who really developed under Reid.

Or Reid is capitalizing on the very mentality you have and selling high. I don't know who in their right minds believes that any team would keep a 30something QB with a record over a 26 year old QB if they believe both are franchise QBs. If Reid really believes Kolb is that good, he'd be shopping Vick or he is a fool.

 

[Dayman]

Well, we're getting Kolb. Rod Graves is incapable of diversionary tactics, and this lines up with Peter King's report from yesterday.

It would be a move that reeks of desperation from Rod. If he doesn't get the right QB in here, we lose Fitz. If we lose Fitz, odds are RG is out of a job.

Unfortunately, I think it's a terrible idea, only because of the potential compensation. After re-watching the TB game last night, I'm not convinced we're simply a QB away from being competitive. There are still way too many holes on both sides of the ball. Not to mention that Kolb would have to learn a new offense in an abbreviated amount of time. Both Cassel and Schaub were traded in March in years with full offseasons. Kolb would be coming here with roughly half the normal amount of time to adjust before the season starts, and that's if the lockout ends soon.

That's why if the rumor is true, I expect us to be VERY aggressive in free agency. Trading away a top ten pick is a quick way for a GM to get fired. Rod will do everything in his power to make sure that doesn't happen. Sando had an appropriate quote in his mailbag today when a Seattle fan asked about Kolb.

I've spoken with personnel people around the league who see Kolb as a solid option, but not as an elite one. How much should a team give up for a good, but not great, quarterback? I would have traded the team's first-round pick this year for Kolb, most likely. But it's an upset if Seattle is picking 25th or later in 2012. The pick next year could be more valuable.

The move would look great if we end up with the next Matt Schaub. But if Kolb turns into the next AJ Feely, it could set the organization back even further. You can't waste two top ten picks on QB busts in the span of six years.

 

[conraddobler]

Comment really pertains to Russ---If (there I go again) you really want to guarantee a disaster next year...start Hall and keep Anderson or visa versa), cut Skelton, bring in Todd Collins. On top of that, let KW continue on as OC as well as head coach. That is the formula.

Max Hall might start improving at the end of the season, and DA wins a couple games by accident.

You'd have to be savy enough to change them up, never play Hall enough to let him improve and play DA on mostly very windy days.

 

[conraddobler]

Well, we're getting Kolb. Rod Graves is incapable of diversionary tactics, and this lines up with Peter King's report from yesterday.

It would be a move that reeks of desperation from Rod. If he doesn't get the right QB in here, we lose Fitz. If we lose Fitz, odds are RG is out of a job.

Unfortunately, I think it's a terrible idea, only because of the potential compensation. After re-watching the TB game last night, I'm not convinced we're simply a QB away from being competitive. There are still way too many holes on both sides of the ball. Not to mention that Kolb would have to learn a new offense in an abbreviated amount of time. Both Cassel and Schaub were traded in March in years with full offseasons. Kolb would be coming here with roughly half the normal amount of time to adjust before the season starts, and that's if the lockout ends soon.

That's why if the rumor is true, I expect us to be VERY aggressive in free agency. Trading away a top ten pick is a quick way for a GM to get fired. Rod will do everything in his power to make sure that doesn't happen. Sando had an appropriate quote in his mailbag today when a Seattle fan asked about Kolb.

Rod Graves is untouchable, nothing he does "football related" will ever rise to the level of termination.

Well maybe I shouldn't say that, I guess there are things he could do that he's not likely to do that would get him fired, but on balance just making mistakes and losing I don't see as reasons to fire him.

 

[lobo]

Huh? He IS young. He's been in the league, what? 3 years?



I'm not sold on the idea of trading a first for him, but I can understand the thinking behind it. Taking a QB in the first is more of a gamble than trading for a guy that's already shown he can do it.

AMEN!! You and I will be the last two to continue preaching to the choir...although I sense some people are coming around to us. I've seen enough of Kolb to know that he is the answer and as you said certainly better than a gamble (Luck excluded) next year. The same people who are whining will be the first to jump ship when a Bulger type craps out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the Seals could have found Rod Graves in Abbattobad a couple nights ago and the Bidwills probably would have offered him a contract extension when they brought him home.

dude will NEVER be fired.

 

[TJ]

the Seals could have found Rod Graves in Abbattobad a couple nights ago and the Bidwills probably would have offered him a contract extension when they brought him home.

dude will NEVER be fired.

Truth....

And even when we think he's doing a crappy job, he gets an extension.

Cardinal's GM - best job ever

 

[cardncubfan]

Apparently we had a deal in place with the Eagles.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/01/bucs-havent-made-decision-on-talib-yet


The Eagles, sources told PFW, had a potential deal in place to trade QB Kevin Kolb to the Cardinals before the draft, but those plans changed when veterans were not allowed to be dealt. It's very possible, however, that the Cardinals and Eagles could reignite those trade talks.

 

[desertdawg]

Apparently we had a deal in place with the Eagles.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/01/bucs-havent-made-decision-on-talib-yet


The Eagles, sources told PFW, had a potential deal in place to trade QB Kevin Kolb to the Cardinals before the draft, but those plans changed when veterans were not allowed to be dealt. It's very possible, however, that the Cardinals and Eagles could reignite those trade talks.

yamon, it's been reported a couple places. I think it's Kolb , I just really wish they had gotten it done (if it is Kolb) so we could have slid him the playbook.

 

[dogpoo32]

Apparently we had a deal in place with the Eagles.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/01/bucs-havent-made-decision-on-talib-yet


The Eagles, sources told PFW, had a potential deal in place to trade QB Kevin Kolb to the Cardinals before the draft, but those plans changed when veterans were not allowed to be dealt. It's very possible, however, that the Cardinals and Eagles could reignite those trade talks.

In that case, maybe it's a 2nd (I Hope). I would hope the Cards wouldn't think Kolb was worth the 5th overall pick. Unless they were going to trade a 2012 anyway.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I read somewhere the trade was in place before the draft in the time where players reported, nut because there were vetrans involved, they couldn't consumate the trade.

Beanie Wells or DRC might be those vets? Either would make sense for the Eagles.

Saying that I would rather do a 2nd for Carson then a first for Kolb.

EDIT: OOOPS - only read the first page before replying

 

[BurqueCardFan]

Niether Matt Cassel or Schaub were traded for a first round pick, I don't see why everybody thinks Kolb is worth one? Kolb does not have a better track record than either of these guys when they were dealt.