Graves will be busy

[slanidrac16]

When a team is a bottom dweller it is foolish to mortgage the future.

We are no longer bottom dwellers. Graves and Bidwill need to use some imagination to fill the holes on this team even if it means taking a few risks ala future cap space.

We KNOW who the core players are. We KNOW our most glaring holes are and we need to give Whiz EVERY tool he needs to get this team to the playoffs next year.
No more excuses. No more cash flow problems. No more small market problems. Games have been sold out. The fans have come out and showed their support.

Dancby and Pace need to be signed. Fitz will probably become the highest paid WR in football. Gandy needs to be restructured or replaced. BJ is probably gone and should be replaced with a quick little pesky WR. We should go for one of the two FA cb's available in Oakland and San Diego.

Free safety, a future RB and pass rusher can be addressed either by moving Rolle to the position AND the draft should Rolle not work out.

There is no reason all the above cannot be accomplished. We want a winner and we are on the verge of becoming one. Let's take this off season and put the final coat of paint on this thing.

 

[john h]

according to Bordow of the EV Trib Link

Excellent informed read. Sounds like it is not a matter of the Cards being cheap but staying within the salary cap?? Am I right or wrong on the salary cap speculation?

 

[john h]

Do you really think Mcfadden will last that long? Everyone is going to be looking at him as if he's their second shot at getting AP.

McFadden easily in the first four and could go number one. No way we get even a peak at Darren. Jones still has not declared and he led the nation in yards per carry at around 9.6 but he is not the heavy weight McFadden is. Jones is also a great kickoff returner with burner speed. They are a good example of what having two excellent backs can do as they can give each a rest.

 

[ajcardfan]

Moving Edge to save 5 mil against the cap...I'm not against it. If we go after J.Stewart in rd1 we'd save a few mil at the RB spot and a mil or 2 more by moving Wells. That should be enough to get Faneca in here. I'd rather have a combo of Stewart and Faneca than Edge and Wells and day.

Cutting Edge would save only 1.5mil according to joe. That's not enough to put it all on a rookie RB. We have better options for CAP ROOM, like Berry (who should take at least a 2 mil salary cut if he wants to stay here) and Fitz.

I'm all for upgrading any position on the team. But, I don't quite understand why there's a big rush to get Edge out of here less than a day after the end of the season. Unless there's been behind the scenes stuff we don't know about. He's clearly the ONLY capable back we have and teams should have two good backs if they can.

 

[40yearfan]

Cutting Edge would save only 1.5mil according to joe. That's not enough to put it all on a rookie RB. We have better options for CAP ROOM, like Berry (who should take at least a 2 mil salary cut if he wants to stay here) and Fitz.

I'm all for upgrading any position on the team. But, I don't quite understand why there's a big rush to get Edge out of here less than a day after the end of the season. Unless there's been behind the scenes stuff we don't know about. He's clearly the ONLY capable back we have and teams should have two good backs if they can.

Just like a whole bunch of people wanted Player out of here and look what that got us. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[JeffGollin]

Funny, reading between the lines of Wiz's presser, I got the opposite impression. Wiz said that, when the team wasn't as productive, we had to look more aggressively to free agency, but - where the team is right now - he expected the emphasis to shift to getting deals done with the guys we already have.

This suggests a less busy year for Graves - at least outside the confines of Cardinal Hq.

The offseason is the time of year when emphasis shifts to the draft, free agency and (some would say) the over-hype of all the players out there that "we don't got."

If we can't draft McFadden, we're all going to die! If we don't get Long, our line is doomed.

Before you get overly dazzled by all the new talent that may or may not be out there (and all the media attention on the Combine, Free Agency and the Draft), consider this:

We underacheived as a team (mostly because of mental errors) and still wound up 8 & 8. Logically (and especially with a young roster) if we can cut down on the mental mistakes and continue to develop the existing talent on our roster, we should improve to 10 & 6 (or better) next year.

Net-net: We don't have to go "high profile" in the new talent dept. and can afford to tweak our roster by cherry picking a few players to bolster a few position needs and maybe opportunistically steal a couple of high value player who might fall to us in the draft.

And don't underplay the ability of our coaching staff to develop in the offseason some of the young, raw talent at the bottom of our roster and on the Practice Squad. I'm dying to know how much a promising but raw LB like David Holloway or a blazer like Jamaica Rector can improve between now and camp. If there is "un-mined gold" at the bottom of our roster, this would also represent another way to improve talent on our our team internally. (Or not. This will be the Wiz regime's first real off-season working with a roster they know a lot about. Maybe they'll be really good at developing untapped talent. Maybe they're not and it's just a pipe dream. Either way, it's something to think about).

 

[Stout]

I strongly disagree with your FA sentimens, Jeff. We should not go high-profile just for the heck of it. Fact is, though, a few of the 'high-profile' FAs that appear to be worth the big bucks are in fact players at positions of desperate need (G and CB). Why shouldn't we go after them? If we were in cap hell, I'd agree with you. We aren't. We're hugely flexible in what we can do, and I think we'd be crazy not to improve the roster as much as possible. I mean, we wouldn't even need to mortgage the future to do it, so what would be the problem with chasing Faneca and Samuel?

 

[red desert]

Funny, reading between the lines of Wiz's presser, I got the opposite impression. Wiz said that, when the team wasn't as productive, we had to look more aggressively to free agency, but - where the team is right now - he expected the emphasis to shift to getting deals done with the guys we already have.

This suggests a less busy year for Graves - at least outside the confines of Cardinal Hq.

The offseason is the time of year when emphasis shifts to the draft, free agency and (some would say) the over-hype of all the players out there that "we don't got."

If we can't draft McFadden, we're all going to die! If we don't get Long, our line is doomed.

Before you get overly dazzled by all the new talent that may or may not be out there (and all the media attention on the Combine, Free Agency and the Draft), consider this:

We underacheived as a team (mostly because of mental errors) and still wound up 8 & 8. Logically (and especially with a young roster) if we can cut down on the mental mistakes and continue to develop the existing talent on our roster, we should improve to 10 & 6 (or better) next year.

Net-net: We don't have to go "high profile" in the new talent dept. and can afford to tweak our roster by cherry picking a few players to bolster a few position needs and maybe opportunistically steal a couple of high value player who might fall to us in the draft.

And don't underplay the ability of our coaching staff to develop in the offseason some of the young, raw talent at the bottom of our roster and on the Practice Squad. I'm dying to know how much a promising but raw LB like David Holloway or a blazer like Jamaica Rector can improve between now and camp. If there is "un-mined gold" at the bottom of our roster, this would also represent another way to improve talent on our our team internally. (Or not. This will be the Wiz regime's first real off-season working with a roster they know a lot about. Maybe they'll be really good at developing untapped talent. Maybe they're not and it's just a pipe dream. Either way, it's something to think about).

Sounds like the sort of rhetoric Graves would try to pass off as wisdom.

 

[Duckjake]

We underacheived as a team (mostly because of mental errors) and still wound up 8 & 8. Logically (and especially with a young roster) if we can cut down on the mental mistakes and continue to develop the existing talent on our roster, we should improve to 10 & 6 (or better) next year.

The Cards need to improve a lot more than that. They need to get where they are on the same level as NE, Indy,and Pittsburgh are almost every year and GB,Dallas,and Jacksonville were this year.

Indy almost beat the Titans with their backup players. That's where we need to be. Not just being content with making fewer mistakes so we can finish 10-6 and maybe get into the playoffs and get hammered 37-13.

I want to see 9-10 games next year like the one I watched yesterday.

 

[Sandan]

Stout every year it is the same.

Why are you so fixated on big name FAs. Everything I read suggests that for the most part they are usually free agents for a reason and not the great playmakers they once were.

What we need to do is find the guy who is about to become a big name

 

[Duckjake]

Stout every year it is the same.

Why are you so fixated on big name FAs. Everything I read suggests that for the most part they are usually free agents for a reason and not the great playmakers they once were.

What we need to do is find the guy who is about to become a big name

Or guys that other teams think are trouble, like Randy Moss and Terrel Owens, or over the hill like Junior Seau.

 

[DaisyCutter]

The Cards need to improve a lot more than that. They need to get where they are on the same level as NE, Indy,and Pittsburgh are almost every year and GB,Dallas,and Jacksonville were this year.

Indy almost beat the Titans with their backup players. That's where we need to be. Not just being content with making fewer mistakes so we can finish 10-6 and maybe get into the playoffs and get hammered 37-13.

I want to see 9-10 games next year like the one I watched yesterday.

Not to mention that while we played a soft schedule this season, next year we're going to be playing at least 5 playoff teams from 2007, as well as an improving Buffalo Bills team and a good young Minnesota Vikings team.

It's not going to be easy next season, methinks.

 

[Sandan]

Or guys that other teams think are trouble, like Randy Moss and Terrel Owens, or over the hill like Junior Seau.

smiley doesn't cut it Duck.

Sure now go back an look over the last 5 years and tell how me most Big name FAs have done ?

Is JS an every down player with the Pats ?

Randy Moss is only trouble if he wants to be and would you trade Q for TO ?

I'll raise you Thomas Jones or as he is know 'Which team am I on this year", David Boston and I'm sure a few of the more knowledgable folks here can cite many more.

 

[cardsfanmd]

smiley doesn't cut it Duck.

Sure now go back an look over the last 5 years and tell how me most Big name FAs have done ?

Is JS an every down player with the Pats ?

Randy Moss is only trouble if he wants to be and would you trade Q for TO ?

I'll raise you Thomas Jones or as he is know 'Which team am I on this year", David Boston and I'm sure a few of the more knowledgable folks here can cite many more.

I would have to disagree with you about big FAs not performing Nidan. Nate Clements was an animal this year as was Adalius Thomas. How about Drew Brees. Thomas Jones played on a crap team and Boston's issue was that he was a drug addict, so their situations are irrelevent in my eyes. The statement about trading Q for TO makes zero snese when we are talking about FA signings.

 

[joeshmo]

Or guys that other teams think are trouble, like Randy Moss and Terrel Owens, or over the hill like Junior Seau.

Or guys that teams are not allowed to franchise tag again in Samueals.

 

[Sandan]

Now that is a different story Joe

 

[Stout]

Now that is a different story Joe

Yep, it is. We should have zero excuse not to pursue a guy like Samuel. Also Faneca; he seems to want out of Pittsburgh because the guys he wanted weren't made head coach. WE have the guys he wanted. We still need another OG. A match made in heaven. We'd be complete dunces not to chase him.

Nidan, I don't want to sign every big name FA. I just don't want us to limit ourselves. I wasn't clamoring for us to bring in everyone, but how much would it have helped us to have a Clements or a Adalius Thomas? I was thrilled when we signed Edge, and you know what? He's played quite well here.

We definitely could have afforded either or, if they were willing, and probably both, if our GM didn't burn our money like it was paper to keep our 'powder dry' for next year. And now that it is 'next year'? Already downplaying the massive spending power we have. Next year? Probably the same.

Eh, maybe they'll surprise me. I hope they chase some of these incredible players at positions of great need. Tell me, Nidan, why we should not do so? What possible reason can there be?

 

[Pariah]

Yep, it is. We should have zero excuse not to pursue a guy like Samuel.

I won't complain if we get him, because he's better than what we have...BUT, I think he's better suited to cover #2 guys with help over the top from the safety. I think we need a legit lock-down cover guy to play opposite Green or Hood.

...easier said than done, I know.

 

[Duckjake]

smiley doesn't cut it Duck.

Sure now go back an look over the last 5 years and tell how me most Big name FAs have done ?

Is JS an every down player with the Pats ?

Randy Moss is only trouble if he wants to be and would you trade Q for TO ?

I'll raise you Thomas Jones or as he is know 'Which team am I on this year", David Boston and I'm sure a few of the more knowledgable folks here can cite many more.

Why not I was joking.

But since you want to be a jerk about it:

You can do your usual "defend the Cardinals at all costs" and "everything Rod Graves says and does is infallible" spin and it still will not change the fact that all those guys went to teams that had the guts to sign them and paid off.

And why would you make your argument even weaker by bringing up Thomas Jones who has rushed for over 1000 yards the last three years and has averaged over 4 yards per carry for 4 of the last 5 on 3 different teams or, in fact, any former Cardinal players considering the horrible job the team did in talent evaluation and player development until just recently?

You need to understand that this is not your pal Dave McGinnis' Cardinals and they are not 40 players away from being at the top of the league. When you get to where they are now, only 4-6 players away, you can start looking for that big talent free agent who can put you over the top because if he doesn't pan out it doesn't kill you. You can still get to the playoffs if you make a couple of clutch FGs. If the big time talents do pan out you can win a SuperBowl.

On the other hand signing a handful of second tier guys does nothing but keep you where you already are. See Gandy and Johnson and Hood and Holt.
The Cards still finished in the bottom 5 in rushing and the secondary, despite Hood's coverage abilities, is still one of the worst in the NFL and they are still where they always are in January, sitting at home watching the playoffs on TV.

One great way to get a good value is to take guys that other teams wrongly think are too much trouble or are over the hill or coming off an injury. Its not that crazy a concept.

 

[joeshmo]

I just don't want us to limit ourselves.

I think that sums up half the debates since this board started.

 

[Sandan]

Nidan, I don't want to sign every big name FA. I just don't want us to limit ourselves. I wasn't clamoring for us to bring in everyone, but how much would it have helped us to have a Clements or a Adalius Thomas? I was thrilled when we signed Edge, and you know what? He's played quite well here.

It sounds that way Stout even if you don't mean it. You sound like an offseason that doesn't include big name signings is a failure.

We definitely could have afforded either or, if they were willing, and probably both, if our GM didn't burn our money like it was paper to keep our 'powder dry' for next year. And now that it is 'next year'? Already downplaying the massive spending power we have. Next year? Probably the same.

As Skkorp already said, this just sounds like you are setting up a told you so attack in a couple of weeks. If they don't do what you think is right then they are stupid.

So which is it massive spending power or cap limited so we can't resign xxx. Either way you get to trot out "Stupid Cardinals and RG is an idiot.

Eh, maybe they'll surprise me. I hope they chase some of these incredible players at positions of great need. Tell me, Nidan, why we should not do so? What possible reason can there be?

First you don't know they wont. Secondly, are they all good fits but you seem to work on the basis of the are stupid.

 

[Sandan]

Why not I was joking.

But since you want to be a jerk about it:

Didn't sound like joking, it sounded to me like a jab with a smiley as cover, if it wasn't I apologize.

I'll give a 1 time pass on calling me a jerk, but it is a violation.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Nidan it is amazing how you constantly challenge and degrate people then are quick to bring up the rules when they counter.

 

[Stout]

Nidan, I know it sounds like that, and I would say it's because there are some people on here so very desperate to defend our underutilization of the cap. I just cannot understand why we don't try to do more. We have the money to sign more players, quality players, than we do. We have the cap space to do so and keep it from harming us in the coming years. Why we don't do more simply amazes me.

And it doesn't have to be players that I specifically want. I mean, Gandy aside (didn't think much of him and admit I was wrong), there were other players like Stinchcomb who were not my first choice, but would have been good pickups.

I just can't stand the fact that Graves is already hinting that we won't even consider any high-priced guys. Well, guess what? The FA with the most talent are going to cost the most. Sure, there can be bargain surprises, but why limit yourself before you even start?

 

[john h]

A good Gm could easily get all this done and have plenty of money for free agency.We'll see if Graves can start earning keep this off season. Another thing to consider is taht the Cards don't have to be big players in FA this year. Maybe one top FA, Faneca?, and a couple of role players to fill out depth,Drew Carter and Drayton Florence. I would consider that an excellent off season.

As for Edge, i'm not for letting him go. Who are we going to play at RB unless we paint oursleves into a corner,again, and have to draft a RB in round 1. Shipp and Arrington have shown nothing and are not even remotely capable as starters. The Addai scenario doesn't exist with the Cards and i think that's a bad comaprison. The Colts had a veteran in Dominic Rhodes who showed he was capable when he filled in for Edge and Addai was eased into the starting role as the season progressed. The Cards don't have anyone like that on their team.You can't just draft a Stewart, Mendenhall,or even McFadden and give them the job if you want to have any kind of success. Even AP had a veteran RB to ease the load with Chester Taylor.

If Graves did say we would not consider any high priced FA, as someone suggested, then that is stupid even if it is true. It indicates to players we are cheap and makes not only the expensive players but the middle line players less likely to even talk to us. Surely the guy did not say that did he??????? Someone please clarify.