Green blaming everyone but himself

azdad1978

Championship!!!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Posts
14,982
Reaction score
50
Location
ordinance 2257
By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist


TEMPE — Dennis Green found plenty of people to blame for the Cardinals' 23-12 loss to the New England Patriots on Sunday.
His players.
His staff.
The dog who ate his game plan.

Funny, though, how he never got around to pointing the finger at the person most responsible for the Cardinals' 0-2 start.

Himself.

Arizona has scored just two touchdowns in its first two games, and the culpability lies with an offensive line that is in over its head.

A line that was thrown in the deep end before it knew how to swim.

Quarterback Josh McCown had to run for his life Sunday, and that's not just a figure of speech. He was sacked five times and chased out of the pocket nearly every time he dropped back to pass.

Green said there were at least 10 plays in which Patriots linebacker Mike Vrabel came through the line untouched. It may be impossible to judge McCown's growth as a quarterback this season because he'll spend most of his Sundays just trying to stay in one piece.

“I just know it can't happen all the time, his getting hit by three or four guys on every play. It is not fair to him,” said center Alex Stepanovich.

An angry Green blasted his offense at halftime — “I'm going to fire some guys,” he yelled, according to one player — and lashed out again after the game.

“We're not on the same page. That's a shame because system-wise, style-wise, this is probably the best offense in the National Football League right now,” he said.

“It's hard to believe that we created it and we don't know how to run it. That's very frustrating for a football coach.. . . I'm just lucky that my emotions aren't worse or that the defensive players' emotions aren't worse because I just don't sense the intensity.. . .

“We're a long way from where I envision this offense. It's hard to believe we're that far (away).”

What did Green expect?

He cut his best offensive lineman from last year, center Pete Kendall, and replaced him with a rookie in Stepanovich.

He benched his second-best lineman, L.J. Shelton, and hasn't let him out of the doghouse. Shelton's lone action Sunday came on field goal attempts.

He moved Leonard Davis to left tackle, where he hasn't played since college, and at left guard is starting Reggie Wells, who had one career start before this season.

Did Green really believe that he could shuffle the offensive line, stick a rookie center in front of a quarterback with three career starts, and the offense would roll merrily along?

That's either arrogance or stupidity. Based on Green's comments about his offensive scheme, you can assume it's the former.

And now his personnel moves have come to pass.

Then again, maybe that's not the best choice of words.

Stepanovich, in particular, struggled against New England. But that's to be expected of a rookie making line calls against a Bill Belichick-coached defense.

“We were supposed to be protecting one way, and we were protecting backward,” said tackle Anthony Clement. “Things were just happening. As an offensive line, we screwed up.”

It was interesting — and instructive — to listen to Green's postgame monologue.
He praised Emmitt Smith. He defended McCown. The inference was obvious: It was the offensive line's fault.

Then there was this curious comment: Asked why the offense was struggling, Green said, “New staff.”

Hmm, wasn't one of Green's selling points in his job interview that he would “coach up” the underachieving Cardinals?

Instead, Arizona is 0-2 for the third time in four years and staring at 0-5 before its bye week.

But don't look at the head coach.

If Green were the captain on the Titanic, he'd blame the iceberg.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=28324
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
here we go. don't worry scott there will be room on the bandwaggon later on down the road as I am sure there were more jumping off after we lost to the SUPERBOWL CHAMPS! geez!:rolleyes:
 

jmr667

Random Poster
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
481
Reaction score
0
Location
Chandler, AZ
azdad1978 said:
By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist




He benched his second-best lineman, L.J. Shelton, and hasn't let him out of the doghouse. Shelton's lone action Sunday came on field goal attempts.

Did Green really believe that he could shuffle the offensive line, stick a rookie center in front of a quarterback with three career starts, and the offense would roll merrily along?



http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=28324

Its nice to see a reporter who does not let the facts (like Shelton's back problems) get in the way of a good rant. Its also good to see him calling Dennis Green to task for dismantling one of the most effective O-Lines from the last 2 seasons and destroying such a high powered offense as the Cardinals. :rolleyes: :barf:

Sports reporting in this town is unbelievable.
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,126
Reaction score
1,919
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
azdad1978 said:
What did Green expect?

He cut his best offensive lineman from last year, center Pete Kendall, and replaced him with a rookie in Stepanovich.

He benched his second-best lineman, L.J. Shelton, and hasn't let him out of the doghouse. Shelton's lone action Sunday came on field goal attempts.

He moved Leonard Davis to left tackle, where he hasn't played since college, and at left guard is starting Reggie Wells, who had one career start before this season.

Did Green really believe that he could shuffle the offensive line, stick a rookie center in front of a quarterback with three career starts, and the offense would roll merrily along?

That's either arrogance or stupidity.

It's rant, but he does however have a point..
 

CardNots

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
5,040
Reaction score
5,601
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
jmr667 said:
Its nice to see a reporter who does not let the facts (like Shelton's back problems) get in the way of a good rant. Its also good to see him calling Dennis Green to task for dismantling one of the most effective O-Lines from the last 2 seasons and destroying such a high powered offense as the Cardinals. :rolleyes: :barf:

Sports reporting in this town is unbelievable.

Right on the money with your comments!
 

NickelBack

ASFN Lifer
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Jul 2, 2003
Posts
3,640
Reaction score
1
Bordow loved Mac....still hasn't gotten over the fact that he is no longer with the team. He is more concerned that he doesn't have a "buddy" as head coach.
 

Pariah

H.S.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Posts
35,345
Reaction score
18
Location
The Aventine
While I think the culpability probably does lie at the feet of the players -- specifically the oline--for this one, Green needs to look in the mirror and ask himself "what makes this the best offense in the NFL right now?" Because statistically, that's very far from the truth.

We're outmanned, and probably will be for most of the season. I hope we can figure out how to buy "McCowen" (according to Tasker) another second or two, because even when Boldin comes back we'll have problems if Josh is running for his life.

Maybe they need to simplify the blocking scheme? I don't know if it's even that complicated, but something needs to change.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,289
Reaction score
39,922
Pariah said:
While I think the culpability probably does lie at the feet of the players -- specifically the oline--for this one, Green needs to look in the mirror and ask himself "what makes this the best offense in the NFL right now?" Because statistically, that's very far from the truth.

We're outmanned, and probably will be for most of the season. I hope we can figure out how to buy "McCowen" (according to Tasker) another second or two, because even when Boldin comes back we'll have problems if Josh is running for his life.

Maybe they need to simplify the blocking scheme? I don't know if it's even that complicated, but something needs to change.

AC's comments about protecting backward would seem to imply he felt Step and the linecalls were the problem. I don't know, but Vrabel was coming through AC's side a lot although I'm not sure how often that was his fault, Spikes fault or even Step's fault.

The comment about the offensive scheme being the best is just dumb, basically what he said was on paper my playbook is really good, if you don't have the personnel to run it, what good does that do? Green and Wood needed to make adjustments to give Josh more time, they didn't do it, they failed miserably on that front.
 

blindseyed

I'm saying you ARE stuck in Wichita
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Posts
8,076
Reaction score
5,889
Location
Verrado
Can't win. Mac used to always blame himself and didn't blame the players. I know it's all involved but, the players are in the NFL, not high school, they are expected to execute the plays DG puts in and to win, period! They get paid like professionals and DG expects them to play like it. They are the ones on the field, not the coach. Although, I didn't agree with some of those 1st down running plays, I though Mac was back for a few series.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
azdad1978 said:
By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist


TEMPE — Dennis Green found plenty of people to blame for the Cardinals' 23-12 loss to the New England Patriots on Sunday.
His players.
His staff.
The dog who ate his game plan.

Funny, though, how he never got around to pointing the finger at the person most responsible for the Cardinals' 0-2 start.

Himself.

Arizona has scored just two touchdowns in its first two games, and the culpability lies with an offensive line that is in over its head.

A line that was thrown in the deep end before it knew how to swim.

Quarterback Josh McCown had to run for his life Sunday, and that's not just a figure of speech. He was sacked five times and chased out of the pocket nearly every time he dropped back to pass.

Green said there were at least 10 plays in which Patriots linebacker Mike Vrabel came through the line untouched. It may be impossible to judge McCown's growth as a quarterback this season because he'll spend most of his Sundays just trying to stay in one piece.

“I just know it can't happen all the time, his getting hit by three or four guys on every play. It is not fair to him,” said center Alex Stepanovich.

An angry Green blasted his offense at halftime — “I'm going to fire some guys,” he yelled, according to one player — and lashed out again after the game.

“We're not on the same page. That's a shame because system-wise, style-wise, this is probably the best offense in the National Football League right now,” he said.

“It's hard to believe that we created it and we don't know how to run it. That's very frustrating for a football coach.. . . I'm just lucky that my emotions aren't worse or that the defensive players' emotions aren't worse because I just don't sense the intensity.. . .

“We're a long way from where I envision this offense. It's hard to believe we're that far (away).”

What did Green expect?

He cut his best offensive lineman from last year, center Pete Kendall, and replaced him with a rookie in Stepanovich.

He benched his second-best lineman, L.J. Shelton, and hasn't let him out of the doghouse. Shelton's lone action Sunday came on field goal attempts.

He moved Leonard Davis to left tackle, where he hasn't played since college, and at left guard is starting Reggie Wells, who had one career start before this season.

Did Green really believe that he could shuffle the offensive line, stick a rookie center in front of a quarterback with three career starts, and the offense would roll merrily along?

That's either arrogance or stupidity. Based on Green's comments about his offensive scheme, you can assume it's the former.

And now his personnel moves have come to pass.

Then again, maybe that's not the best choice of words.

Stepanovich, in particular, struggled against New England. But that's to be expected of a rookie making line calls against a Bill Belichick-coached defense.

“We were supposed to be protecting one way, and we were protecting backward,” said tackle Anthony Clement. “Things were just happening. As an offensive line, we screwed up.”

It was interesting — and instructive — to listen to Green's postgame monologue.
He praised Emmitt Smith. He defended McCown. The inference was obvious: It was the offensive line's fault.

Then there was this curious comment: Asked why the offense was struggling, Green said, “New staff.”

Hmm, wasn't one of Green's selling points in his job interview that he would “coach up” the underachieving Cardinals?

Instead, Arizona is 0-2 for the third time in four years and staring at 0-5 before its bye week.

But don't look at the head coach.

If Green were the captain on the Titanic, he'd blame the iceberg.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=28324

It seemed to me in the first half McCown spent the entire half taking snaps under the center. Even with a tremendous pass rush. It wan not until the 2nd half that we put him into the shotguy. That was sure slow reaction time on the coaches part. I also thought they should have been running some draws and screens to counter the rush. Some plays it was clear where the blitzes were comming from even for a novice watching on TV. McCown did not have the experience or maybe even the authority to check out of what ever play he called. I do not sense he has good field presence to check out of a called play that I see in other young QB's.
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
john h said:
It seemed to me in the first half McCown spent the entire half taking snaps under the center. Even with a tremendous pass rush. It wan not until the 2nd half that we put him into the shotguy. That was sure slow reaction time on the coaches part. I also thought they should have been running some draws and screens to counter the rush. Some plays it was clear where the blitzes were comming from even for a novice watching on TV. McCown did not have the experience or maybe even the authority to check out of what ever play he called. I do not sense he has good field presence to check out of a called play that I see in other young QB's.

and neither did manning. Look the guy is young and played against a very tricky coaching staff. it did not help that we had poor blocking. You can't simply pin it all on McCown
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
Pariah said:
While I think the culpability probably does lie at the feet of the players -- specifically the oline--for this one, Green needs to look in the mirror and ask himself "what makes this the best offense in the NFL right now?" Because statistically, that's very far from the truth.

We're outmanned, and probably will be for most of the season. I hope we can figure out how to buy "McCowen" (according to Tasker) another second or two, because even when Boldin comes back we'll have problems if Josh is running for his life.

Maybe they need to simplify the blocking scheme? I don't know if it's even that complicated, but something needs to change.

We will never be a good passing team until we can consistenly run the ball. That is just the way it is. We do not have the guys on this team to be a good running team.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
Sad.

This guyt is like a baby who dropped his icecream cone. What a whiner! Green is doing a fantastic job. The blame is on the Oline completely!

And this guy's arguement is un-thoughout, and the rantings of a un-knowledgable moron.

The other 31 teams in the NFL move thier offensive linemen around all the time, and THEY pull it off. And why do they? The reason is better personel. We have millions, upon millions put into our offensive line, and it is an obvious waste of money. Clement, Spikes, Shelton, and even Davis ALL have had 3+ years to get there act together, and they have not. They are playing as poorly as they did when they came into this club. That is not acceptable in the NFL.

The only one that can save is the person the reporter above is trashing. Dennis Green can patch this up, like he did the defense.

Go Cards, and Go Denny we are right here for you.
:thumbup:
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
RugbyMuffin said:
Sad.

This guyt is like a baby who dropped his icecream cone. What a whiner! Green is doing a fantastic job. The blame is on the Oline completely!

And this guy's arguement is un-thoughout, and the rantings of a un-knowledgable moron.

The other 31 teams in the NFL move thier offensive linemen around all the time, and THEY pull it off. And why do they? The reason is better personel. We have millions, upon millions put into our offensive line, and it is an obvious waste of money. Clement, Spikes, Shelton, and even Davis ALL have had 3+ years to get there act together, and they have not. They are playing as poorly as they did when they came into this club. That is not acceptable in the NFL.

The only one that can save is the person the reporter above is trashing. Dennis Green can patch this up, like he did the defense.

Go Cards, and Go Denny we are right here for you.
:thumbup:

:thumbup:
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,289
Reaction score
39,922
RugbyMuffin said:
Sad.

This guyt is like a baby who dropped his icecream cone. What a whiner! Green is doing a fantastic job. The blame is on the Oline completely!

And this guy's arguement is un-thoughout, and the rantings of a un-knowledgable moron.

The other 31 teams in the NFL move thier offensive linemen around all the time, and THEY pull it off. And why do they? The reason is better personel. We have millions, upon millions put into our offensive line, and it is an obvious waste of money. Clement, Spikes, Shelton, and even Davis ALL have had 3+ years to get there act together, and they have not. They are playing as poorly as they did when they came into this club. That is not acceptable in the NFL.

The only one that can save is the person the reporter above is trashing. Dennis Green can patch this up, like he did the defense.

Go Cards, and Go Denny we are right here for you.
:thumbup:

The 49er OL let guys go over money, lost guys to injury, and finished the game yesterday with Kyle Kosier starting at LT against New Orleans, they gave up sacks(I think 5) but they ran the ball well and they were nothing like as bad as our OL.

It's not just personnel, it's coaching too, they threw inexperienced guys together and they played ok at times, this is our OL, has been for 6 weeks + now counting preseason and camp, and yesterday they looked like they met for the first time in the locker room before the game. Wylie and Green have to take SOME blame for that too.

It'll get better, I have no doubt Green will see to that, but it didn't have to be this bad.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
Russ Smith said:
The 49er OL let guys go over money, lost guys to injury, and finished the game yesterday with Kyle Kosier starting at LT against New Orleans, they gave up sacks(I think 5) but they ran the ball well and they were nothing like as bad as our OL.

It's not just personnel, it's coaching too, they threw inexperienced guys together and they played ok at times, this is our OL, has been for 6 weeks + now counting preseason and camp, and yesterday they looked like they met for the first time in the locker room before the game. Wylie and Green have to take SOME blame for that too.

It'll get better, I have no doubt Green will see to that, but it didn't have to be this bad.

SF gave up only 2 sacks. Plus add their 3 top RB's who are all better then our top 3 RB's(their #3 is better then our #1 IMO) of course they are going to run the ball better, especially against a 27th ranked run D last year that did nothing to improve it for this year.

But I do agree a small part of it is coaching and partly scouting and not knowing before hand that every single one of these guys are overpaid and overrated.
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
Russ Smith said:
The 49er OL let guys go over money, lost guys to injury, and finished the game yesterday with Kyle Kosier starting at LT against New Orleans, they gave up sacks(I think 5) but they ran the ball well and they were nothing like as bad as our OL.

It's not just personnel, it's coaching too, they threw inexperienced guys together and they played ok at times, this is our OL, has been for 6 weeks + now counting preseason and camp, and yesterday they looked like they met for the first time in the locker room before the game. Wylie and Green have to take SOME blame for that too.

It'll get better, I have no doubt Green will see to that, but it didn't have to be this bad.

But that is the thing that gets me. People say DG is not taking blame. Just because he did not say "it was my fault" like Mac does not make him any less of a football coach and I am sure he will correct the things he needs to. for this column to be written after the 2nd game of the year is another example of how the local media is ready to rip DG for any mistakes.
 

CardFan67

Don't touch my tail!
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Posts
4,219
Reaction score
1
Location
So Cal
clif said:
But that is the thing that gets me. People say DG is not taking blame. Just because he did not say "it was my fault" like Mac does not make him any less of a football coach and I am sure he will correct the things he needs to. for this column to be written after the 2nd game of the year is another example of how the local media is ready to rip DG for any mistakes.
DG taking the blame and not pointing out the teams flaws would not do well for his reputation or the future of the team and the players. Regardless of how you feel about the man, I think he is handling everything fairly well... As some have stated there is nothing to gain by having a sniffling coach taking the credit for a loss... It is a team effort, coach included, but at least his appears stable and brings forth credible analysis...
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
CardFan67 said:
DG taking the blame and not pointing out the teams flaws would not do well for his reputation or the future of the team and the players. Regardless of how you feel about the man, I think he is handling everything fairly well... As some have stated there is nothing to gain by having a sniffling coach taking the credit for a loss... It is a team effort, coach included, but at least his appears stable and brings forth credible analysis...
exactly... I agree with you. I was not understanding why people are ripping him for not taking it on his shoulders.
 

conraddobler

I want my 2$
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Posts
20,052
Reaction score
237
CardFan67 said:
DG taking the blame and not pointing out the teams flaws would not do well for his reputation or the future of the team and the players. Regardless of how you feel about the man, I think he is handling everything fairly well... As some have stated there is nothing to gain by having a sniffling coach taking the credit for a loss... It is a team effort, coach included, but at least his appears stable and brings forth credible analysis...


I agree totally, what DG is basically saying is that the product on the field is so far from what is in the playbook it can't be my fault. We practice the plays and then if they are run perfectly and fail then it's my fault if they play is so horribly botched that it dosen't resemble what we practiced or called then it's the players fault.

He has ultimate responsiblitly for this team so in the end all of it is his fault. He knows this but he needs to point out what is wrong or it will never be fixed.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,289
Reaction score
39,922
joeshmo said:
SF gave up only 2 sacks. Plus add their 3 top RB's who are all better then our top 3 RB's(their #3 is better then our #1 IMO) of course they are going to run the ball better, especially against a 27th ranked run D last year that did nothing to improve it for this year.

But I do agree a small part of it is coaching and partly scouting and not knowing before hand that every single one of these guys are overpaid and overrated.

Right about the number of sacks but do you really think Jamal Robertson and Terry Jackson are better than our RB's? I sure don't they've been on the fringe of the NFL for awhile now.

I can't even name the 49er OL coach anymore since McKittrick died, but they seem to be able to plug bodies in and make it work, always have.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,289
Reaction score
39,922
clif said:
But that is the thing that gets me. People say DG is not taking blame. Just because he did not say "it was my fault" like Mac does not make him any less of a football coach and I am sure he will correct the things he needs to. for this column to be written after the 2nd game of the year is another example of how the local media is ready to rip DG for any mistakes.


I didn't say he didn't take any blame, I just said he and Wylie have to get some blame for it. Look at this board, how many posts ripping teh OL have mentioned DG or Wylie? How many that I didn't write?

This is Green's OL, he moved Big, twice, he benched LJ, he moved Wells, he moved Spikes and he left AC put at RT. So when it struggles, he and Wylie have to get some of the blame.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
Russ Smith said:
Right about the number of sacks but do you really think Jamal Robertson and Terry Jackson are better than our RB's?

Yes I do. But then again I think Emmitt Smith should be no where near the field unless it is in a coaching role. Hambrick is still out of shape(wont make a contribution until the last half of the season) and Croom isnt NFL material Yet(I emphasize YET). OK Scobey is better then the 2 49er backups but thats all I will give you.
 

Tangodnzr

ASFN Lifer
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
3,837
Reaction score
5
Location
Idaho
Dennis Green can patch this up, like he did the defense.

HUH??? :confused:

Yeah, that defensive line was just absolutely devastating yesterday.

Cory Dillon couldn't do a thing. :rolleyes:
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
Russ Smith said:
I didn't say he didn't take any blame, I just said he and Wylie have to get some blame for it. Look at this board, how many posts ripping teh OL have mentioned DG or Wylie? How many that I didn't write?

This is Green's OL, he moved Big, twice, he benched LJ, he moved Wells, he moved Spikes and he left AC put at RT. So when it struggles, he and Wylie have to get some of the blame.

sure I am not saying you I just quoted you because you were the last to mention it. I was more pointing to the actual column. I am very sure DG took this one personally by the way he made comments yesterday.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
556,592
Posts
5,437,133
Members
6,330
Latest member
Trainwreck20
Top