Green blaming everyone but himself

[SECTION 11]

HUH???

Yeah, that defensive line was just absolutely devastating yesterday.

Cory Dillon couldn't do a thing.

Please.
Last season we gave up 80 combined points to Detroit and Seattle over the first two weeks.
This season we've give up exactly half that to St. Louis and New England.

Read it and weep....
Dennis Green's defensive system is better than Dave McGinnis'.

 

[kerouac9]

Read it and weep....
Dennis Green's defensive system is better than Dave McGinnis'.

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. One thing that was a huge bright spot for the Cardinals yesterday was that there was no quit whatsoever from the redbird defense. Everyone played hard every down. There didn't seem to be a ton of missed tackles, but there were some mental mistakes with players not effectively covering their gaps in the run game, but that might be expected under a new defensive system.

One question: what the hell happened to Ronald McKinnon? Did he not play? ESPN.com has him listed for 0 tackles. I mean, the less Ronnie Mac plays, the better, but wasn't he (according to the board) our best defensive player last season?

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. One thing that was a huge bright spot for the Cardinals yesterday was that there was no quit whatsoever from the redbird defense. Everyone played hard every down. There didn't seem to be a ton of missed tackles, but there were some mental mistakes with players not effectively covering their gaps in the run game, but that might be expected under a new defensive system.

One question: what the hell happened to Ronald McKinnon? Did he not play? ESPN.com has him listed for 0 tackles. I mean, the less Ronnie Mac plays, the better, but wasn't he (according to the board) our best defensive player last season?

He made at least one tackle that I remember but as I mentioend yesterday he clearly seems to be on the way down in his career. If Hayes is healthy I'd like to see him start getting more reps at MLB.

It's tough, you can find so many guys like Marion Barber, Lance Mitchell, Rodrique Wright et al who could help this team next year but we're not going to be able to draft them all, so some of this has to be fixed internally.

 

[clif]

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. One thing that was a huge bright spot for the Cardinals yesterday was that there was no quit whatsoever from the redbird defense. Everyone played hard every down. There didn't seem to be a ton of missed tackles, but there were some mental mistakes with players not effectively covering their gaps in the run game, but that might be expected under a new defensive system.

One question: what the hell happened to Ronald McKinnon? Did he not play? ESPN.com has him listed for 0 tackles. I mean, the less Ronnie Mac plays, the better, but wasn't he (according to the board) our best defensive player last season?

he looks really slow this year. maybe it is time to bench him

 

[spanky1]

It appears that "cooler heads are prevailing" as some of the game assessments start to appear from those who I respect as knowledgeable football minds from among us. My hope is that the players maintain their confidence as the early season progresses along. Green must be careful in how he delivers the message.

Personally, I thought that we did OK holding the Patriots to 23 points. Anyone who says that they laid off as the game progressed would be lying. Our defense is growing exponentially and I saw some excellent progress with Berry, Dockett, Davis and Kolodziej. No team is going to hold Faulk and Dillon to under 100 yards this early in the season.

Dansby might crack the starting line up pretty soon, especially if Thompson remains out for much longer. Woods could move back to the WLB, allowing Dansby to start at SLB. It's time for Hayes to replace McKinnon on a full time basis. I'm pleased with Starks and Macklin and Wilson so far.

We'll see Shelton back next week.........on the right side somewhere, but at whose expense........Clements or Spikes.

I'm sorry, but count me among those that can't see any redeeming value with Smith or Karl Williams as starters.

I believe that we have a realistic shot in the next three games. If so, 3-2 by the week off is fine with me.

Can anyone believe all the major talent that got injured last week around the league.....especially Cleveland.

 

[D-Dogg]

Please.
Last season we gave up 80 combined points to Detroit and Seattle over the first two weeks.
This season we've give up exactly half that to St. Louis and New England.

Read it and weep....
Dennis Green's defensive system is better than Dave McGinnis'.

 

[kerouac9]

No team is going to hold Faulk and Dillon to under 100 yards this early in the season.

Except, you know, the Atlanta Falcons. 2003's #32-ranked defense. But whatever.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. One thing that was a huge bright spot for the Cardinals yesterday was that there was no quit whatsoever from the redbird defense. Everyone played hard every down. There didn't seem to be a ton of missed tackles, but there were some mental mistakes with players not effectively covering their gaps in the run game, but that might be expected under a new defensive system.

One question: what the hell happened to Ronald McKinnon? Did he not play? ESPN.com has him listed for 0 tackles. I mean, the less Ronnie Mac plays, the better, but wasn't he (according to the board) our best defensive player last season?

No surprise here....I disagree with most of this post.

Although, I must say that Ronnie Mac did seem (without reviewing the tapes yet) to be an ovbious non-factor. Not Good. I would expect to see Hayes taking more and more time away from him. At this point I see Ronnie Mac much like Mark Maddox before he retired. A solid goal line type player who is no longer fleet of foot enough to be what they once were.
I don't think Ronnie Mac is completely washed up just yet, but I do think its time for his playing time to start decreasing more to special situations. In fact hasn't it already?

I still don't buy all this "at least this team doesn't quit now like it always did under Mac" stuff. That is pure and unadulterated garbage, in my book, and more a biased fiction of Mac bashers or Green pimps than anything else.

One thing I did see that seemed to improve, was at least, at times, there was a little more pressure on the QB, even Kololdajxxmg got a sack.

The DT's still seem to be getting manhandled too much though on running plays and Steve Bono would probably look like Michael Vick again if consistantly running QB draws, etc, against them.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

It appears that "cooler heads are prevailing" as some of the game assessments start to appear from those who I respect as knowledgeable football minds from among us. My hope is that the players maintain their confidence as the early season progresses along. Green must be careful in how he delivers the message.

Personally, I thought that we did OK holding the Patriots to 23 points. Anyone who says that they laid off as the game progressed would be lying. Our defense is growing exponentially and I saw some excellent progress with Berry, Dockett, Davis and Kolodziej. No team is going to hold Faulk and Dillon to under 100 yards this early in the season.

Dansby might crack the starting line up pretty soon, especially if Thompson remains out for much longer. Woods could move back to the WLB, allowing Dansby to start at SLB. It's time for Hayes to replace McKinnon on a full time basis. I'm pleased with Starks and Macklin and Wilson so far.

We'll see Shelton back next week.........on the right side somewhere, but at whose expense........Clements or Spikes.

I'm sorry, but count me among those that can't see any redeeming value with Smith or Karl Williams as starters.

I believe that we have a realistic shot in the next three games. If so, 3-2 by the week off is fine with me.

Can anyone believe all the major talent that got injured last week around the league.....especially Cleveland.

The defense played hard. Very hard. There is no quit in them and that alone has made this season much better thus far. Like someone else stated: Mac's team would have lost 44-12. I agree.

I hope your right on LJ. I am not sure what to make of it. Why is he not on the field? Is he in DG's doghouse? Does DG think he just isnt that good?

Dansby still seems a little unsure of himself but wow when he plays on instict he is good. It will take a few years but he could be good!

Williams has value to me-as a punt returner. I dont want Quan or BJ back there returning punts.

 

[clif]

It appears that "cooler heads are prevailing" as some of the game assessments start to appear from those who I respect as knowledgeable football minds from among us. My hope is that the players maintain their confidence as the early season progresses along. Green must be careful in how he delivers the message.

Personally, I thought that we did OK holding the Patriots to 23 points. Anyone who says that they laid off as the game progressed would be lying. Our defense is growing exponentially and I saw some excellent progress with Berry, Dockett, Davis and Kolodziej. No team is going to hold Faulk and Dillon to under 100 yards this early in the season.

Dansby might crack the starting line up pretty soon, especially if Thompson remains out for much longer. Woods could move back to the WLB, allowing Dansby to start at SLB. It's time for Hayes to replace McKinnon on a full time basis. I'm pleased with Starks and Macklin and Wilson so far.

We'll see Shelton back next week.........on the right side somewhere, but at whose expense........Clements or Spikes.

I'm sorry, but count me among those that can't see any redeeming value with Smith or Karl Williams as starters.

I believe that we have a realistic shot in the next three games. If so, 3-2 by the week off is fine with me.

Can anyone believe all the major talent that got injured last week around the league.....especially Cleveland.

... Did williams even make a catch yesterday? I dont even remember him being on the field. You cant tell me Poole would not have been able to at least contribute as much (or as little ) as Williams.

 

[clif]

The defense played hard. Very hard. There is no quit in them and that alone has made this season much better thus far. Like someone else stated: Mac's team would have lost 44-12. I agree.

I hope your right on LJ. I am not sure what to make of it. Why is he not on the field? Is he in DG's doghouse? Does DG think he just isnt that good?

Dansby still seems a little unsure of himself but wow when he plays on instict he is good. It will take a few years but he could be good!

Williams has value to me-as a punt returner. I dont want Quan or BJ back there returning punts.

I would be more concerned if LJ was NOT in the lineup this weekend. I think it is time and I am sure DG will do the right thing.... assuming he is healthy.. there is no way both spikes and clement are in the lineup. One of them AT THE LEAST has to be benched.

 

[Russ Smith]

... Did williams even make a catch yesterday? I dont even remember him being on the field. You cant tell me Poole would not have been able to at least contribute as much (or as little ) as Williams.

There was one play AJ mentioned where Karl was wide open for a TD, but Josh was under such a heavy rush he never had a chance to see him.

 

[SECTION 11]

I still don't buy all this "at least this team doesn't quit now like it always did under Mac" stuff. That is pure and unadulterated garbage, in my book, and more a biased fiction of Mac bashers or Green pimps than anything else.

When I hear a player claim under Green that, "Here we go again" when they get down, I'll believe you.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

When I hear a player claim under Green that, "Here we go again" when they get down, I'll believe you.

They dont have to say it, their actions showed it. This team is sooo much more prepared than last years and plays with so much more intensity it is almost laughable to compare.

 

[pete]

There was one play AJ mentioned where Karl was wide open for a TD, but Josh was under such a heavy rush he never had a chance to see him.

There were several plays where McCown had a freebie TD if he had been looking downfield. There was one play where he had Freddie Jones behind the entire Pat secondary but yet he threw it into coverage or ran it. Can't remember what he did but I know he did not throw it to Jones. Once McCown tucks the ball under his arm, he seems to lose all vision of what is downfield. This is not surprising considering his level of experience.

 

[Tangodnzr]

They dont have to say it, their actions showed it. This team is sooo much more prepared than last years and plays with so much more intensity it is almost laughable to compare.

...and I simplyl say BS!!!.

Granted the Cleveland game, and the SF game in Frisco were ugly games.
I think those are maybe the only two even possibilities were this team may have let down any, and I challenge any of you who keep harping on this to prove your accusations with some facts in that regard.

The 2nd game last year, where they got pasted by Seattle, the team didn't quit by any means. They just shot themselves in the foot with the turnovers.

And as to Sect 11 (and others) who bring up the "here we go again" quote:
I forget exactly who made that.
I will only say that maybe the context of that may not be being accurately portrayed. And even if the author did intend to imply that the team simply "quit", that was one player's opinion and certainly hasn't ever seemed or proven to be the majority one.

Yes the team was handicapped, big time, with it's coaching inadeqacies, and when things started going wrong, there wasn't much direction to help stem the tide. But that doesn't mean the players just "quit".
In fact, in all fairness to Mac, I still think that was one of his strong points, that he was able to keep the team from quitting when it would have been really easy to do, under the circumstances.

 

[clif]

...and I simplyl say BS!!!.

Granted the Cleveland game, and the SF game in Frisco were ugly games.
I think those are maybe the only two even possibilities were this team may have let down any, and I challenge any of you who keep harping on this to prove your accusations with some facts in that regard.

The 2nd game last year, where they got pasted by Seattle, the team didn't quit by any means. They just shot themselves in the foot with the turnovers.

And as to Sect 11 (and others) who bring up the "here we go again" quote:
I forget exactly who made that.
I will only say that maybe the context of that may not be being accurately portrayed. And even if the author did intend to imply that the team simply "quit", that was one player's opinion and certainly hasn't ever seemed or proven to be the majority one.

Yes the team was handicapped, big time, with it's coaching inadeqacies, and when things started going wrong, there wasn't much direction to help stem the tide. But that doesn't mean the players just "quit".
In fact, in all fairness to Mac, I still think that was one of his strong points, that he was able to keep the team from quitting when it would have been really easy to do, under the circumstances.

...anybody who watched many of those games last year...it was clear that the players quit. OF course not all, but it doesn't take many to quit to get blown out when you are already not as talented.

say what you will, but when you give up 44 points to cleveland and 50 points to SF then you quit.

EDIT: next time I will ask the players "Hey did you quit this time last year?" that way we will know for sure..I am sure they will tell me.

 

[TheCardFan]

...anybody who watched many of those games last year...it was clear that the players quit. OF course not all, but it doesn't take many to quit to get blown out when you are already not as talented.

say what you will, but when you give up 44 points to cleveland and 50 points to SF then you quit.

To think otherwise is completely biased and irrational.

You don't have to like Green but you have to respect a man that has done it and is not happy with just being competitive. As a Cardinals fan...being competitive is a huge step forward on the path of getting it done.

 

[SECTION 11]

So on one side there's the Cleveland and San Fran road debacles, the "here we go again" quote, the worst home loss in 22 years to the Seahawks, and this quote from Mac himself on the Seattle game:

"We gave them that ballgame early, then we didn't fight to get it back," said Cardinals coach Dave McGinnis, whose team has lost 11 of 12. "That disappoints me more than anything else."

And on the other side is, "BS."

Rack 'em.

 

[Tangodnzr]

...anybody who watched many of those games last year...it was clear that the players quit. OF course not all, but it doesn't take many to quit to get blown out when you are already not as talented.

say what you will, but when you give up 44 points to cleveland and 50 points to SF then you quit.

Ahh yess...

Let's suppose that you are right here. (And I'm not ready to concede even that as fact, just yet)

So now we end up relegated to "a FEW players MAY have quit in part of 2 games".
Even if so, hardly the over-exaggerated claim so many keep making about the situation.

 

[clif]

also what about the pittsburgh game last year? I believe it was last year...the games are starting to run together. I think we gave up the lead within like 5 mins and never got back into it.

 

[pete]

...and I simplyl say BS!!!.

The 2nd game last year, where they got pasted by Seattle, the team didn't quit by any means. They just shot themselves in the foot with the turnovers.

You've got to be kidding me! What universe are you living in dude? That Seattle game last year had to be one of the worst home game efforts the Cards have put up since they got here. They gave up midway through the first quarter. Maybe even sooner. If that game was not the worst home opener in AZ Cardinal history, I'd like to know what was?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

...and I simplyl say BS!!!.

Granted the Cleveland game, and the SF game in Frisco were ugly games.
I think those are maybe the only two even possibilities were this team may have let down any, and I challenge any of you who keep harping on this to prove your accusations with some facts in that regard.

The 2nd game last year, where they got pasted by Seattle, the team didn't quit by any means. They just shot themselves in the foot with the turnovers.

And as to Sect 11 (and others) who bring up the "here we go again" quote:
I forget exactly who made that.
I will only say that maybe the context of that may not be being accurately portrayed. And even if the author did intend to imply that the team simply "quit", that was one player's opinion and certainly hasn't ever seemed or proven to be the majority one.

Yes the team was handicapped, big time, with it's coaching inadeqacies, and when things started going wrong, there wasn't much direction to help stem the tide. But that doesn't mean the players just "quit".
In fact, in all fairness to Mac, I still think that was one of his strong points, that he was able to keep the team from quitting when it would have been really easy to do, under the circumstances.

The Rams game in St. Louis, The Steelers game in Pittsburgh, etc. I dont know what we are arguing here other than this defense is playing with more intensity and flying to the ball more this year then I saw in any of the 16 games last year.

And you are arguing what? That isn't true??

Ummm ok...it truly is laughable that you continue with this biased, blind, ant-Green slant to all your posts. I liked Mac a lot but he was an awful head coach! It was time for him to go...let go Tango, let go.

How can you not argue that last years team was not completly unprepared for games and just 'going through the motions'??

Laughable I tell you, Laughable~

 

[ajcardfan]

There was one play AJ mentioned where Karl was wide open for a TD, but Josh was under such a heavy rush he never had a chance to see him.

He was actually the only guy out in the pattern, so he had to be looking for him. But, if you remember that play (it was the second one after the Berry fumble return) a Pat was on him as soon as he finished faking the handoff and he wasn't able to bootleg.

 

[SECTION 11]

After Cleveland:

"From the top down, we got outcoached, out-prepared and most certainly outplayed in every aspect of the game," Cardinals coach Dave McGinnis said. "This was a humiliating defeat. This was as lopsided from one side to the other as I have ever been around. I haven't looked at the stats -- I don't need to. I lived through it."


After San Fran:
The sad-sack Cardinals (3-10), who beat San Francisco in overtime six weeks ago, lost their fifth straight. They fell behind 34-0 at halftime with equally pathetic efforts on offense and defense in their biggest loss ever to San Francisco.

"I don't know what their situation was, but they didn't come out with the same intensity that they had when we played them down there," linebacker Julian Peterson said.