Green Fires Lindsay & O'Dea, Pollard Retires

[Russ Smith]

• If the coaches that were let go were so bad, why did DG pick them in the first place? How can we be sure that he won't make the same mistakes in picking their successors.
• Are the coaches that were let go responsible for acquiring the players they had to work with?
• Is dismissing these coaches and replacing them with others meant to take the heat off of DG and Graves for a poor season?

Lindsay got his job because Green and Wylie didn't see eye to eye, reportedly on the blocking scheme now supposedly "out of date."

Green picked the personnel, I guarantee you Lindsay wasn't involved in signing Ross and drafting Brown, Green is in charge there.

Sure, in some respect it clearly is because Green clearly said at the press conference he thought Lindsay did a "great job" this year. If he really felt that, why didn't he keep him? The answer is, he was responding to pressure to make changes, and lindsay was one of them. And with Tice getting canned, it works out ok for him since he can probably land Tice. But it was quite clear on the presser Green didn't want to fire Lindsay.

He said he thinks Lindsay will be a great OL coach, and he may well be, with proper learning curve, the problem is the Cards front office wasn't willing to be the guinea pig that lets him do anymore on the job training, they knew they needed a qualified coach.

I assume that's all the firings we're going to see, I expected one more with Hargrave but given what he had to work with at TE it's hard to fault him, and Bergen showed progress.

 

[conraddobler]

Lindsay got his job because Green and Wylie didn't see eye to eye, reportedly on the blocking scheme now supposedly "out of date."

Green picked the personnel, I guarantee you Lindsay wasn't involved in signing Ross and drafting Brown, Green is in charge there.

Sure, in some respect it clearly is because Green clearly said at the press conference he thought Lindsay did a "great job" this year. If he really felt that, why didn't he keep him? The answer is, he was responding to pressure to make changes, and lindsay was one of them. And with Tice getting canned, it works out ok for him since he can probably land Tice. But it was quite clear on the presser Green didn't want to fire Lindsay.

He said he thinks Lindsay will be a great OL coach, and he may well be, with proper learning curve, the problem is the Cards front office wasn't willing to be the guinea pig that lets him do anymore on the job training, they knew they needed a qualified coach.

I assume that's all the firings we're going to see, I expected one more with Hargrave but given what he had to work with at TE it's hard to fault him, and Bergen showed progress.

I'm pretty sure Odea and Pollard Green didn't mind so much. Lindsay was probably the sacrificial lamb here.

I thought for what we had our TE's progressed nicely, also our DB's did fine so Greens henchmen aren't draggin us down too bad but in the case of the TE's you might think Rowen had something to do with that.

 

[Redsz]

The Lindsay comment is proburbly pure coach/media speak. It would of achieved anothing to throw him under a bus infront of the media.

 

[Redsz]

If the coaches that were let go were so bad, why did DG pick them in the first place? How can we be sure that he won't make the same mistakes in picking their successors.

Do you think Green would of picked them if he thought they where going to fail? Obviously he saw potential in them and that's why he hired them.

No matter what, Green is not going to get it right 100% of the time. And that is the same for every Head Coach in the NFL. Anyone who thinks other wise has really unrealistic expectations.

Don't these coaches have to carry their own water? They have to be responsible for their performance as well. And that's why they weren't resigned.

Are the coaches that were let go responsible for acquiring the players they had to work with?

I imagine they input to a certain degree. But I would say Green and Graves are the ones responsible for acquiring players.

Is dismissing these coaches and replacing them with others meant to take the heat off of DG and Graves for a poor season?

No, it's holding these coaches responsible for the poor performances of their units. And rightfully so. Members of the coaching satff have to take responsiblity as much as the Head Coach does.

 

[AzCards21]

Just what leads any of you to believe the coaches we have are due to restraints in the amount we are willing to pay? Seriously, this just sounds like more made up unsubstantiated whining to me.

I've never seen anything that indicated the Cards aren't willing to pay for good coaches.

 

[BACH]

I assume that's all the firings we're going to see, I expected one more with Hargrave but given what he had to work with at TE it's hard to fault him, and Bergen showed progress.

I don't follow you on this one...

We had three undrafted players at TE with no meaningful NFL experience. Hartgraves did a solid job with this group.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't follow you on this one...

We had three undrafted players at TE with no meaningful NFL experience. Hartgraves did a solid job with this group.

That's why I said "given what he had to work with." I expected Hargrave to be fired for reasons not entirely related to coaching. I also have heard that the Cards FO was not amused when it was suggested that new OC Keith Rowen could "help" the OL coach and TE coach since he had prior experience in both areas. The OL coach was fired, I was expecting Hargrave would be too.

Not saying he did a horrible job, I just didn't expect him to be back I'd heard rumor that he was on the chopping block.

 

[Sandan]

Just what leads any of you to believe the coaches we have are due to restraints in the amount we are willing to pay? Seriously, this just sounds like more made up unsubstantiated whining to me.

I've never seen anything that indicated the Cards aren't willing to pay for good coaches.

Since when do folks need facts to assume something bad about the Cardinals ?

 

[joeshmo]

Since when do folks need facts to assume something bad about the Cardinals ?

Nidan it isnt assuming anything, it has been in multiple articles by people who are in the know more then us, guys such as Urban, Sommers, ect.

 

[ajcardfan]

Nidan it isnt assuming anything, it has been in multiple articles by people who are in the know more then us, guys such as Urban, Sommers, ect.

Here's an article that says it. Written by Urban on Dec. 21st.

http://arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=884538&postcount=1

 

[Sandan]

In that article Urban doesn't say we have a limited budget, in fact it appears carefully written to give that impression without actually ading any information.

In reality all he is saying is that the Cardinals have less cash available for coaches than some other 'big market' teams. This is a fact as the budget for coaches salary is not part of the cap, it is one of the areas where the Snyder's of the NFL world can just outspend us.

Many here seem to have forgotten that this is one of the reasons we needed a new stadium. It won't fix it [never going to be able to outspend DC or NY] but it will make us more competetive.

 

[ajcardfan]

In that article Urban doesn't say we have a limited budget, in fact it appears carefully written to give that impression without actually ading any information.

In reality all he is saying is that the Cardinals have less cash available for coaches than some other 'big market' teams. This is a fact as the budget for coaches salary is not part of the cap, it is one of the areas where the Snyder's of the NFL world can just outspend us.

Many here seem to have forgotten that this is one of the reasons we needed a new stadium. It won't fix it [never going to be able to outspend DC or NY] but it will make us more competetive.

He says the budget for coaches is "relatively small" and that Green had a hard time hiring coaches because of it. He could have just as easily said "limited" instead of "relatively small". Why split hairs?

You turn right around yourself and say the Cards have less cash to pay coaches than many franchises. Hopefully, it won't prevent Green from getting his top choices this time.

 

[Scott MS]

Budgets are one thing, but the ability to spend money is another. If the Cards found the right guy for the right money, I'm sure they could find a way to pay him whatever they want. Sure, it's ultimately coming out of the Bidwills' pocket -- all the money they spend is -- but you hope that they view it as an investment to improve the team.

A better Cardinals team on the field will mean more money in their pocket. I just don't hope they are foolish enough to think the stadium alone with bring in the fans. It may at first, but winning on the field will continue to put butts in the seats at the top of the rafters long after the stadium has opened.

 

[Sandan]

My point with that was a fine one you are correct but I suspect Darren intended it that way. Plausible deniability, they call it.

His article in no way says the Cardinals are being cheap with regards to AC salaries. It just states the obvious that relative to some teams we have less cash.

 

[john h]

I'm throwing a party re: Lindsay being fired. A big dog-party. Seriously, our line just got better.

The thing about Lindsey that disturbs me is why did we hire a guy with zero coaching experience in the first place? Does anyone in the NFL do this? This is the big time not high school. What possible could have been going through Dennis Green's thought process? When you see him hire a guy like this after firing an experienced coach 7 games into the season if has to make even the most strident Green supporter wonder what is going on here? I would think even the owners would pose this question to the Head Coach. I sure would. When you look at his resume under experience there is a big blank space. That would be like me walking into GE and asking for the job as CEO. Under experience I could say I once sold light bulbs.

 

[john h]

So, who are some possible (and capable) replacements? Tice as AHC/OL coach, and....??????

I think the first thing we see is who will submit a resume and want to come here. There will be some but do not expect our doors to be knocked down unless we have a new pay scale.

 

[john h]

I strongly believe Mike Tice will be here next season and will get some special title like Offensive Consultant/OLine Coach or some other off the wall title. He will probably have some say so with the TE's as well. Denny is very fond of Mike Tice and I get the feeling that its a shared respect between them. When he doesn't get offered an OC position he'll be in AZ very soon.

Who was KC's Special Teams coach??? He's available now and they have had strong Special Teams play if I recall(although having Dante Hall doesn't hurt).

Also if Jim Haslett is fired what about considering him? He was a successful special teams guy first wasn't he?

As for the DLine I hear Mean Joe Greene is still available....I'm joking of course.

Has Mike Tice ever coached an Offensive Line? I do not know and am just asking. A good head coach does not necessarlily make a good line coach. He may not even understand technique or be a teacher.

 

[CardLogic]

He says the budget for coaches is "relatively small" and that Green had a hard time hiring coaches because of it. He could have just as easily said "limited" instead of "relatively small". Why split hairs?

You turn right around yourself and say the Cards have less cash to pay coaches than many franchises. Hopefully, it won't prevent Green from getting his top choices this time.

Article from today's EV Tribune, written by Darren Urban, includes the following statements from Denny Green: Green said he already had potential replacements in mind and that the budget was good enough to lure them to Arizona.

"We split the pie up for coaches pretty good," Green said. "We’ve got a good staff, a well-paid staff."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=56374

 

[john h]

If more money is needed to attract quality coaches, it's up to Green and Graves to make the case, and for the Bidwill's to pony up... NOT GREEN.

You see it happen every year in baseball and football. Players will adjust their salaries and some even take less of a raise than they could get to try and hold a good team together. If I were DG and $200 -$300 thousand dollars stood in the way of me not getting a top coach I think i would strongly considering ponying up as it just might be good for my long term security. It does not take a genius to make a case we need good coaching. The Bidwills have been around foot ball for a century. They either will increase the coaching budget or they want. It is already probably in place for 2006 so Green knows what he has to work with. We will know by the quality of coaches we hire.

 

[ajcardfan]

Article from today's EV Tribune, written by Darren Urban, includes the following statements from Denny Green: Green said he already had potential replacements in mind and that the budget was good enough to lure them to Arizona.

"We split the pie up for coaches pretty good," Green said. "We’ve got a good staff, a well-paid staff."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=56374

Yep, that's what Green says.

First of all, he's no dummy, he'll take the company line in public. He's had nothing but glowing comments about the Bidwills and Graves since day 1.

Second, he might even believe it, and all the reports by Urban, Somers and Jurecki about money keeping away guys like Alex Gibbs could be flat out wrong. I hope this is the case.

 

[john h]

Just what leads any of you to believe the coaches we have are due to restraints in the amount we are willing to pay? Seriously, this just sounds like more made up unsubstantiated whining to me.

I've never seen anything that indicated the Cards aren't willing to pay for good coaches.

In looking over what coordinators in the NFL are paid we are way down on this list. One team pays it's OC 1.5 mil a year. The Vikings are the poorest paid coaching staff in the league. Tice, the HCoach makes or made $1 mil a year. Money drives everything in professional sports. We are a constant low revenue team and a constant bad team in the NFL. There is a direct connection.

 

[john h]

Nidan it isnt assuming anything, it has been in multiple articles by people who are in the know more then us, guys such as Urban, Sommers, ect.

There are some sites that list the pay of Coordinators, etc by team.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Article from today's EV Tribune, written by Darren Urban, includes the following statements from Denny Green: Green said he already had potential replacements in mind and that the budget was good enough to lure them to Arizona.

"We split the pie up for coaches pretty good," Green said. "We’ve got a good staff, a well-paid staff."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=56374

What exactly would you expect Denny or any coach to say. Just blast the ownership, usually people wait till after they leave there team to do that. T.O. would be the only exception.

I don't consider it not a problem cause Denny said it wasn't. I just hope if it was a problem, we relized it, and will correct it. By acually dishing out some dough for some more talented coaches. There should be a nice selection out there with all the firings going on.

 

[Sandan]

Has Mike Tice ever coached an Offensive Line? I do not know and am just asking. A good head coach does not necessarlily make a good line coach. He may not even understand technique or be a teacher.

I thought he was DG's OL coach in Minn ?

 

[ajcardfan]

I thought he was DG's OL coach in Minn ?

Yes, he was.