Has coach Porter lost this team?

[nashman]

In your opinion do you think Porter has lost this team already? Do you think he ever even really had them? Is it possible for a coach to lose a team 20 games into a new season? Just wanted to hear some of your guys opinions me and some friends were discussing this as we watched in discust last night. I feel personally he has lost this team unless something drastically changes in the next few games.

 

[cly2tw]

He lost it after he almost had it to start the season and after Nash and Bell started complaining.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He lost it after he almost had it to start the season and after Nash and Bell started complaining.

he never had it. you act like we didn't get our asses completely kicked in Game 2 of the season (just like we have almost every time we played a good team). or that people weren't grousing during training camp.

after he "almost had it." we were playing a cupcake schedule and looked bad while we started 8-3. as we started playing good teams and we were getting killed with regularity the dissenting opinions came out. now were just playing better teams more often, thus we're getting killed with more regularity.

 

[mojorizen7]

At this point....yes ,almost entirely but it doesn't take a rocket scientist surgeon to fix the problem.
Cut out the cancer.

 

[shazaam6]

He lost it after he almost had it to start the season and after Nash and Bell started complaining.

yep
They played better at the beginning. Since then, they have been resisting and have tested Porter's authority to see if he will bench them. So far nothing for the dissenters so the inmates run the asylum. Civil war is next as soon as sides are chosen. Porter needs to take charge. Period.

1. Tell the players to shut the hell up and not to answer any media questions that start out like: "Are you happy with.........
2. Either play up to your abilities or sit on the bench. Let the coaches make the adjustments, don't undermine them by not giving your best effort. Some regulars really need to be put on the pine.
3.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqM_tPumTZI&feature=related

 

[Mainstreet]

The players have to believe in the system and the coach to be successful. The core of this team knew what was legitimate and what was pie in the sky. Any team that is doing collages at this stage of the season is in bad shape. In Steve Nash I trust. He knew Porter's system was flawed as did Raja and Amare. After players tune a coach out I don't think there is any coming back. I really don't fault Porter because he just didn't have the tools to coach this team. I fault Kerr for so many bad decisions.

 

[mojorizen7]

The players have to believe in the system and the coach to be successful. The core of this team knew what was legitimate and what was pie in the sky. Any team that is doing collages at this stage of the season is in bad shape. In Steve Nash I trust. He knew Porter's system was flawed as did Raja and Amare. After players tune a coach out I don't think there is any coming back. I really don't fault Porter because he just didn't have the tools to coach this team. I fault Kerr for so many bad decisions.

I'm sorry but i think this a very naieve way of looking at the situation from the outside looking in.
If you think that Porter is in over his head & unqualified then sure,you may be right.....It remains to be seen IMO, but to think that Nash & Bell know what kind of system it takes to be successful as well as how to coach is plain silly.
You're right about one thing....if the players don't believe or buy into a coach & his system then it won't work. We're 20 games in. It ain't working,why? We've got the wrong players for the current system. One of those players is Nash who for good reason commands attention & respect in the locker room. Nash wants to play D'Antoni ball. If anybody disagrees with that they're in denial. So if you're the GM(regardless of whether or not you're an idiot GM) & want to right the ship what do you do?
Fire your new HC not knowing if his system is going to be successful because your aging superstar doesn't buy into it?
Or get rid of those who question it and look to move on?
IMO the answer is obvious.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm sorry but i think this a very naieve way of looking at the situation from the outside looking in.
If you think that Porter is in over his head & unqualified then sure,you may be right.....It remains to be seen IMO, but to think that Nash & Bell know what kind of system it takes to be successful as well as how to coach is plain silly.
You're right about one thing....if the players don't believe or buy into a coach & his system then it won't work. We're 20 games in. It ain't working,why? We've got the wrong players for the current system. One of those players is Nash who for good reason commands attention & respect in the locker room. Nash wants to play D'Antoni ball. If anybody disagrees with that they're in denial. So if you're the GM(regardless of whether or not you're an idiot GM) & want to right the ship what do you do?
Fire your new HC not knowing if his system is going to be successful because your aging superstar doesn't buy into it?
Or get rid of those who question it and look to move on?
IMO the answer is obvious.

So you clean house except for the newbies? I guess you must want to rebuild now because the holdovers are not buying into it including Amare.

I am not opposed to rebuilding but where are those Championship aspirations you had for the Suns after DA left. I certainly think your confidence is misplaced in Porter but then again you didn't like DA either. I don't think you're in position to call anyone naive.

 

[az1965]

We really need to clean house and start from scratch. The only valuable piece for trading we have is Amare. The rebuilding would need some clever manuvering which I seriously doubt this owner and FO is capable of. I'm not sure where this franchise is headed... really frustrated and not seeing light at the end of the tunnel for now.

 

[mojorizen7]

So you clean house except for the newbies? I guess you must want to rebuild now because the holdovers are not buying into it including Amare.

I am not opposed to rebuilding but where are those Championship aspirations you had for the Suns after DA left. I certainly think your confidence is misplaced in Porter but then again you didn't like DA either. I don't think you're in position to call anyone naive.

I clean house w/Nash,Bell,Barbosa & Diaw. Moving Diaw may be impossible but you start with those three or at the very least Nash & Bell. This opinion of mine isn't new. I was in favor of moving Nash the day after D'Antoni left IIRC because i believed the SUNS title run was officially over.
I never....repeat.....never had championship aspirations for this team after DA's departure nor because of his departure. I simply felt(and feel) that with his removal & a new philosophy that included playing fundamental basketball on BOTH ends of the floor that our chances of competing in the playoffs & having a legit shot at a title had increased. I stand by that.
Did Kerr hire the wrong guy? Again we don't know that yet, but it is looking more & more obvious to me that Kerr should have just admitted to & began rebuilding ...starting with moving DA's prime system guys.
Ooops.
As far as AMare goes, he just wants the damn ball. What else is new?

 

[Mainstreet]

I never....repeat.....never had championship aspirations for this team after DA's departure nor because of his departure. I simply felt(and feel) that with his removal & a new philosophy that included playing fundamental basketball on BOTH ends of the floor that our chances of competing in the playoffs & having a legit shot at a title had increased. I stand by that.

Glad you're getting what you wanted. I sort of liked winning and being in the playoffs every season with still the possibility of winning a Championship when the right blend of players came together. Of course Kerr would have made this impossible. I've seen what he has done as GM and it's not pretty. May I suggest that you shift your blame from DA to where it really belongs... Steve Kerr. He could write a book about making all the wrong moves.

 

[BC867]

May I suggest that you shift your blame from DA...

Although my dislike of DA's coaching style might not make me objective, the NBA standings are a fact.

Porter's Suns ------ 11-9 .550 2nd place
D'Antoni's Knicks -- 8-11 .421 Last place

It was expected that D'Antoni's style would bring the Knicks a regular season improvement. Last place is not an improvement.

If Mike D'Antoni were still coaching the Suns, Shaq would be playing twelve feet from the basket, Amare would be playing Center about half of the time, rookies would get no playing time, Leandro would be playing a lot of Point Guard, Grant Hill would be wearing himself out in a seven man rotation and the Suns would be drained by playoff time.

 

[Mainstreet]

Although my dislike of DA's coaching style might not make me objective, the NBA standings are a fact.

Porter's Suns ------ 11-9 .550 2nd place
D'Antoni's Knicks -- 8-11 .421 Last place

It was expected that D'Antoni's style would bring the Knicks a regular season improvement. Last place is not an improvement.

This is a joke right?

DA is only in his first season rebuilding the Knicks. Comparing the talent the Suns have now versus the rebuilding Knicks is off the wall. However, I'm sure the Knicks will have a better team record than last year's Knicks at the end of year.

 

[msdundee]

Although my dislike of DA's coaching style might not make me objective, the NBA standings are a fact.

Porter's Suns ------ 11-9 .550 2nd place
D'Antoni's Knicks -- 8-11 .421 Last place

It was expected that D'Antoni's style would bring the Knicks a regular season improvement. Last place is not an improvement.

If Mike D'Antoni were still coaching the Suns, Shaq would be playing twelve feet from the basket, Amare would be playing Center about half of the time, rookies would get no playing time, Leandro would be playing a lot of Point Guard, Grant Hill would be wearing himself out in a seven man rotation and the Suns would be drained by playoff time.

Division standings are one thing--second place sounds a lot more impressive than it is. Conference standings would seem to be a more valid measure.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Although my dislike of DA's coaching style might not make me objective, the NBA standings are a fact.

Porter's Suns ------ 11-9 .550 2nd place
D'Antoni's Knicks -- 8-11 .421 Last place

It was expected that D'Antoni's style would bring the Knicks a regular season improvement. Last place is not an improvement.

i'm no fan of DA but this is just a completely specious argument.

 

[BC867]

Thanks for your responses, guys. But if D'Antoni needs some time to get it together in NY, so does Porter here. So it's not fair to judge either after a quarter of a season. I cited their comparison records tongue in cheek.

I wish you wouldn't be so quick to give up on Porter and wish D'Antoni were back. We saw his shortcomings after years, rather than just a quarter of a season.

And I still believe that Terry Porter has a better idea of the big picture -- start to finish -- than Mickey D's philosophy allowed. He'll work it out during the season and be ready for the playoffs.