Have the Cardinals had a successful FA season?

[Zeno]

I don't understand how people can think that they just ignored to OT and OLB positions... It makes no sense.

You are right it makes no sense to ignore those positions. They way they are sitting right now they have to draft for need and that leads to disaster more often than not.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

According to the NFL payscale, after quarterback, LT is the most important position on the field. Read Michael Lewis's The Blind Side if you doubt this is the case. On average, starting LTs in the NFL are paid more than starting QBs.

Absolute insanity. Lets say it was pre determined Big was going to ask for more money and they worried about his effect on the team and what it would do to him giving that money. Hypothetically (and this is my exact thought) they felt Davis was not worth what he was asking. And from what he got TO PLAY GUARD i completly agree. Lets just assume K9 that the FO knew something you didn't as it seem they never really cared to negotiate with him (they said "let's see how he plays this season") and didn't even consider franchising him as they didn't want the chance of him being on the team - even for one more year - under a new regime. So for your plan of keeping him for one year - they didn't see the value in that as they did not like him as a player. Simeon Rice was the most talented DE we ever had, but even though he was a sack stud, no one questioned that he had to go. From the way the FO handled Davis it seems they wanted no part of him. So who are you to say that we should have kept him or that they even had any plans to keep him? You are saying "Same ol dumb Cardinals" but maybe they are being proactive and cutting ties with a talented kid who never met his potential - which is a universally accepted truth.

I don't fault them for that all. You see everything as black and white and assume keeping Davis was part of the plan and the team F'ed it up. I actually think they are doing EXACTLY what they wanted.

To go along with your LT's being paid what they are for a reason - well that adds another piece to the equation. They are scarce for a reason. Who exactly did you want to commit big time money should the Cards had decided they didn't want BIG? Pashos? Stinchcomb? Colombo? These are mediocre players who would have commanded major cap space. It actually would have been what the Cardinals of the past would have done. Overspent because the public pressure was they had too. You say you don't want to reach for need in the draft. Well I would rather draft a need pick in the second round than spend 50 million on a mediocre taclke because we need too.

They are getting low risk/ high reward guys and I am sure there is a plan at some point to acquire a LT. But i think they feel they can win games with what they have and take advantage of getting a LT at a more opportune time. I think its smart business.

Yes we have less "talent" on the line. ANd thats debatable that will still be the case after the draft. But we definitely have more depth and even cohesion as most of the starters will be returning sans BIG - including better coaching too.

Should we draft a tackle in the first or second round (which i feel is a certainty) we have a better tackle rotation as many teams in the league as Ross, Gorin and Gandy have all been starters elsewhere and provide good depth and competition for Wells and the top pick. And i wouldn't even mind one of those guys starting the season should the rookie not be ready as they have done it before on successful teams and would provide a adequate stop gap until the rook develops.
Especially since it would be the best of the three starting.

I look back to all the projections before FA and laugh. And i was part of it too. We would list like 6 of the top 50 players and say that was our FA class. Hey lets be realistic. There are 32 TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE! Sure we had good cap space but i actually think after the draft we will have the best DEPTH we have had in years. So the FA was only a C or D if you had unrealistc expectations. Which many of us did. To me it was a "B" as we had many needs and addressed them for competition purposes. It would have been an "A" had we acquired Kelly and a FA linebacker.

I'm happy going into the draft. Things could have been better but if you always look at things that way then you will never be happy with what you actually have going for you (I'm looking at you K9)

 

[az1965]

Yes, they have successfully executed their plan! Props to Whiz and especially Graves!

However, as others pointed out, the real success will be when it translates into wins!

 

[az1965]

Absolute insanity. Lets say it was pre determined Big was going to ask for more money and they worried about his effect on the team and what it would do to him giving that money. Hypothetically (and this is my exact thought) they felt Davis was not worth what he was asking. And from what he got TO PLAY GUARD i completly agree.
...

I'm happy going into the draft. Things could have been better but if you always look at things that way then you will never be happy with what you actually have going for you (I'm looking at you K9)

 

[CardLogic]

Well I would rather draft a need pick in the second round than spend 50 million on a mediocre taclke because we need too.

Things could have been better but if you always look at things that way then you will never be happy with what you actually have going for you

Excellent post!

 

[kerouac9]

I'm happy going into the draft. Things could have been better but if you always look at things that way then you will never be happy with what you actually have going for you (I'm looking at you K9)

Blah blah blah blah blah. I'm not happy with a 5-11 team and another Top 10 pick in the NFL draft. If you're happy with that, bully for you. But I'm not going to make excuses for a shaky (at best) front office.

There is no higher risk and lower reward than going into the NFL draft without a starting-caliber LT to protect your Franchise Quarterback. That's the long and the short of it.

Everything else is just excuses.

You see everything as black and white and assume keeping Davis was part of the plan and the team F'ed it up. I actually think they are doing EXACTLY what they wanted.

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I never thought that keeping Davis was part of the plan. I just always thought that letting him leave without even having a competent backup was a huge mistake.

Maybe the front office is doing what they want, but when you're talking about one guy who could very well be the worst personnel man in the NFL (including Al Davis) and two guys who don't have a single season experience running personnel, how can you have much faith that they'll succeed?

Should we draft a tackle in the first or second round (which i feel is a certainty) we have a better tackle rotation as many teams in the league as Ross, Gorin and Gandy have all been starters elsewhere and provide good depth and competition for Wells and the top pick.

When you're drafting for need you're asking for trouble. With the $32 million we had in cap space going into free agency, we could have gotten Stinchcomb (who wasn't overpaid--how can 4-5 players all be overpaid? Are you sure that you're not just misjudging the players or the market?) and still had all the other guys in free agency with some left over.

Instead, we may have to pass on good prospects like Okoye or Anderson or Timmons or Alexander who could help us later on because we have to take an OT. I would rather have flexibility in the first two rounds of the draft to take the playmakers of tomorrow than gamble our quarterback's career that Joe Thomas is going to fall to us or hope that Levi Brown can be somebody.

 

[CardLogic]

Man, I can already hear the uproar when the first round comes and goes and the Cardinals did not select a tackle....

 

[Zeno]

Man, I can already hear the uproar when the first round comes and goes and the Cardinals did not select a tackle....

If Joe Thomas is already gone then thats fine...if Joe Thomas is on the board and we don't draft him the uproar will be great and IMO justified. I'll be more PO'ed if we reach for Levi Brown or someone like Alan Branch at #5.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Blah blah blah blah blah. I'm not happy with a 5-11 team and another Top 10 pick in the NFL draft. If you're happy with that, bully for you. But I'm not going to make excuses for a shaky (at best) front office.

There is no higher risk and lower reward than going into the NFL draft without a starting-caliber LT to protect your Franchise Quarterback. That's the long and the short of it.

Everything else is just excuses.



I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I never thought that keeping Davis was part of the plan. I just always thought that letting him leave without even having a competent backup was a huge mistake.

Maybe the front office is doing what they want, but when you're talking about one guy who could very well be the worst personnel man in the NFL (including Al Davis) and two guys who don't have a single season experience running personnel, how can you have much faith that they'll succeed?



When you're drafting for need you're asking for trouble. With the $32 million we had in cap space going into free agency, we could have gotten Stinchcomb (who wasn't overpaid--how can 4-5 players all be overpaid? Are you sure that you're not just misjudging the players or the market?) and still had all the other guys in free agency with some left over.

Instead, we may have to pass on good prospects like Okoye or Anderson or Timmons or Alexander who could help us later on because we have to take an OT. I would rather have flexibility in the first two rounds of the draft to take the playmakers of tomorrow than gamble our quarterback's career that Joe Thomas is going to fall to us or hope that Levi Brown can be somebody.

I nominate for Post of the Day!

I cant see how anyone can argue the simple fact that going into the draft the Cardinals HAVE to get a starting LT. That person is not on the team right now and anyone who says otherwise hasnt been watching this oline. Instead of having the flexibility to take a Calvin Johnson should he fall, or a AP, we have no other choice but to draft for need. Thats the long and short of it!

I am tired of hoping Grimm can coach these guys up, or hoping that a tackle falls to us in round 1 or 2, or hoping we can find a second day OT gem. Let's have a plan to fill that position so we arent paitned into a friggin corner like we already are!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

If Joe Thomas is already gone then thats fine...if Joe Thomas is on the board and we don't draft him the uproar will be great and IMO justified. I'll be more PO'ed if we reach for Levi Brown or someone like Alan Branch at #5.

How is it fine if he is gone? This FO is betting all their money that they can get Thomas to fill the need of LT. If he is already gone, then it is just a matter of time before we start hearing the "Judge us by the product on the field" lines Graves will start trotting out.

 

[kerouac9]

Man, I can already hear the uproar when the first round comes and goes and the Cardinals did not select a tackle....

No, there will absolutely be an uproar if Joe Thomas is selected before #5 overall. The scenario that Rod Graves has been banking on since he found out what the market for FA OL was going to be much larger than he anticipated is that Thomas will be the player that the Cards can get.

If the Cards draft Levi Brown #5 overall, I think there'll be a mixture of relief, anger, and nervousness. A very quiet University of Phoenix Stadium on draft day. Everyone will know we reached for need, but BACH, nidan, 40yr, spanky, Mitch, and others will be quick to come with the excuses for this.

If the Cards take an Adrian Peterson or Gaines Adams #5 overall, I think there will be much jubilation as well as bad feelings in the pits of many stomachs that (1) we'll have to trade back into the first to get Brown or Staley, (2) we'll give up too much having to do so, including a good third-round OLB prospect, or (3) we'll end up with Tony Ugoh or Blalock playing OLT for us next season as second round picks.

If the Cards trade out of the #5 spot, there will be much nervous waiting.

 

[Zeno]

How is it fine if he is gone? This FO is betting all their money that they can get Thomas to fill the need of LT. If he is already gone, then it is just a matter of time before we start hearing the "Judge us by the product on the field" lines Graves will start trotting out.

I guess you missed my point, I won't be happy that we don't have our starting LT after round 1(IMO only 1 player is capable of that--Thomas) but I'll be much happier if they grab the best player available rather than reach for a "need" pick.

its degrees of happiness at this point.

 

[Rats]

Blah blah blah blah blah. I'm not happy with a 5-11 team and another Top 10 pick in the NFL draft. If you're happy with that, bully for you. But I'm not going to make excuses for a shaky (at best) front office.

There is no higher risk and lower reward than going into the NFL draft without a starting-caliber LT to protect your Franchise Quarterback. That's the long and the short of it.

Everything else is just excuses.



I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I never thought that keeping Davis was part of the plan. I just always thought that letting him leave without even having a competent backup was a huge mistake.

Maybe the front office is doing what they want, but when you're talking about one guy who could very well be the worst personnel man in the NFL (including Al Davis) and two guys who don't have a single season experience running personnel, how can you have much faith that they'll succeed?



When you're drafting for need you're asking for trouble. With the $32 million we had in cap space going into free agency, we could have gotten Stinchcomb (who wasn't overpaid--how can 4-5 players all be overpaid? Are you sure that you're not just misjudging the players or the market?) and still had all the other guys in free agency with some left over.

Instead, we may have to pass on good prospects like Okoye or Anderson or Timmons or Alexander who could help us later on because we have to take an OT. I would rather have flexibility in the first two rounds of the draft to take the playmakers of tomorrow than gamble our quarterback's career that Joe Thomas is going to fall to us or hope that Levi Brown can be somebody.

For me, this post says all that really needs to be said. Well played

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I guess you missed my point, I won't be happy that we don't have our starting LT after round 1(IMO only 1 player is capable of that--Thomas) but I'll be much happier if they grab the best player available rather than reach for a "need" pick.

its degrees of happiness at this point.

Gotcha, my bad. I just cant wait to hear the deafening silence when Thomas is taken with the 2nd or 3rd pick. Or a collective "we are screwed" will reverberate through Cards nation.

 

[Heucrazy]

Gotcha, my bad. I just cant wait to hear the deafening silence when Thomas is taken with the 2nd or 3rd pick. A collective "we are screwed" will reverberate through Cards nation.

Why?

Is Joe Thomas the only LT tackle in the entire draft?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Why?

Is Joe Thomas the only LT tackle in the entire draft?

Ugghh...the only one graded high enough to potentially start as a rookie...yeah probably.

The point is, why paint ourselves in this corner when we didnt need to. I guess we can reach for Levi Brown there...doesn't make it any better though.

 

[Mitch]

I like what the Cardinals have done...but I am disappointed we missed out on Eric Steinbach. I think he was the perfect player for the Cardinals...and I would have had no problems starting him at LT. TE Reggie Kelly would have been a good pickup at a position of need...why other TEs haven't been considered is a tad mystifying...but...at least the Cardinals added a starting caliber CB in Roderick Hood (best signing, IMO)...and a bona fide starter at FB in Terrelle Smith.

The other signings (Shipp, Morey, Milligan, Beisel, Cooper, Gandy, and Holt) are all good for depth and bolstering the club's special teams, an area that is generally undervalued...but not by this coaching staff.

The only player the Cardinals overpaid for is C Al Johnson...and hopefully Johnson will justify his signing.

The Cardinals did not cover themselves well enough in free agency to be able to draft BPA...they will need to draft BPON (of need) throughout the draft. We are probably looking at a combination of T, OLB, TE and CB in the first four rounds...a sleeper T in round five (a la Renardo Foster) and a sleeper DE in round seven (a la Antwan Applewhite).

Plan A:

1. Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin

2. Rufus Alexander, OLB, Oklahoma

3. David Irons, CB, Auburn

4. Matt Spaeth, TE, Minnesota

5. Renardo Foster, T, Louisville

7. Antwan Applewhite, DE, San Diego St.

Plan B:

1. Levi Brown, T, Penn. St.

2. Tanard Jackson, CB, Syracuse

3. Buster Davis, LB, Florida St.

4. Ben Patrick, TE, Delaware

5. Mike Otto, T, Purdue

7. Mkristo Bruce, DE, Washington St.

 

[40yearfan]

No, there will absolutely be an uproar if Joe Thomas is selected before #5 overall. The scenario that Rod Graves has been banking on since he found out what the market for FA OL was going to be much larger than he anticipated is that Thomas will be the player that the Cards can get.

And you know this how? Wiz has already said that Ross is the starting LT. Accept it or not, that's where we are and apparently Wiz isn't uncomfortable with it.

If the Cards draft Levi Brown #5 overall, I think there'll be a mixture of relief, anger, and nervousness. A very quiet University of Phoenix Stadium on draft day. Everyone will know we reached for need, but BACH, nidan, 40yr, spanky, Mitch, and others will be quick to come with the excuses for this.

And if we don't reach for Brown and Thomas isn't there, you guys will all be saying we screwed up and the year is already down the drain.

If the Cards take an Adrian Peterson or Gaines Adams #5 overall, I think there will be much jubilation as well as bad feelings in the pits of many stomachs that (1) we'll have to trade back into the first to get Brown or Staley, (2) we'll give up too much having to do so, including a good third-round OLB prospect, or (3) we'll end up with Tony Ugoh or Blalock playing OLT for us next season as second round picks.

If the Cards trade out of the #5 spot, there will be much nervous waiting.

*

 

[Stout]

But since we don't know what they'll do, it's hard to conclude that it's NOT good planning.

We don't know how Whiz rates the draft prospects. Is not far fetched to guess that Whiz and especially Grimm are drooling over Levi Brown's talent and leadership ability. Maybe they have Brown rated around #5-#6 overall and will take him at #5 if Thomas isn't there. I they rate him that high, then it's a good plan based on the rest of the off-season moves.

I don't know about Levi Brown. At first I didn't like him for us, but then I started to come around. I'm wondering if that's just because I'm a PSU fan and because we desperately need a LT. I mean, if I wasn't high on him before as a PSU fan...eh.

 

[Stout]

You know what? If Thomas is off the board at 5 and we can somehow pull this following scenario off, I will be thrilled:

#5: AP
Trade back up in the first without giving up our #2: Staley
#2: Linebacker.

Now, chances of it happening, on the other hand...

 

[kerouac9]

You know what? If Thomas is off the board at 5 and we can somehow pull this following scenario off, I will be thrilled:

#5: AP
Trade back up in the first without giving up our #2: Staley
#2: Linebacker.

Now, chances of it happening, on the other hand...

You'd have to give up this years' #2 or next year's #1 and maybe a third-rounder (to a team like the Pats) to get back into the first for Staley. Is that too rich for your blood?

 

[Duckjake]

Accept it or not, that's where we are and apparently Wiz isn't uncomfortable with it.

Whisenhunt has only been a Cardinal fan for a couple of months. He hasn't had to endure 5-11, 4-12,6-10,5-11 and 5-11 like we have the last 5 years. He's got two years to go 5-11 before he gets uncomfortable.

How anybody could have blind faith in everything the Cardinals do with that track record is amazing.

It's like having an electrician continually foul up the wiring in your buildings and you keep hiring him because he hires a new foreman and swears his new guy will fix everything.

 

[joeshmo]

And you know this how? Wiz has already said that Ross is the starting LT. Accept it or not, that's where we are and apparently Wiz isn't uncomfortable with it.

He only said who was #1 on the depth chart for the up coming mini camp mid April. Lets not read into to much either side of the line. Ross being named started does not mean he will be happy with Ross or that he wont be uncomfortable with it, or that we will pass on Thomas, or we will reach for Levi Brown. All he did was name the best of the bunch currently on the roster, thats it nothing more nothing less.

 

[Redsz]

All he did was name the best of the bunch currently on the roster, thats it nothing more nothing less.

Agreed. It's possible that Ross isn't even the best player. But simply the guy Whiz and Grimm have worked with before and have some form of comfort with at this stage.

Unless Ross improves out of sight (i.e returns to his form PIT) then I don't believe he will be a starter come the start of the season.

 

[Stout]

You'd have to give up this years' #2 or next year's #1 and maybe a third-rounder (to a team like the Pats) to get back into the first for Staley. Is that too rich for your blood?

Not too rich at all, as long as we really believe in Staley. You get a decent LT, a decent OLB, and AP on this team, and we will not only be in the playoffs, but compete in the playoffs.