Have we changed or upgraded our team at all yet?

[Stout]

On this issue any dissection of the why's and wherefore's is wasted on you, as you'll never concede that positive changes have been and continue to be made with an eye on the future.

Yes, we've made some positive changes this year. Bolstering the offensive line? I defy anyone to prove how we've done that.

 

[desertdawg]

And this is a big surprise to us?

Might be a few new readers that don't know yet, give me some street cred for the disclaimer at least!!!

 

[desertdawg]

I've been hearing that a lot lately. I think someone posted the stats to back that up buy I can't find that post. If someone would link that or link to something that shows that Levi had a very good second half of the season I'd appreciate it.

Yamon

 

[Dayman]

I've been hearing that a lot lately. I think someone posted the stats to back that up buy I can't find that post. If someone would link that or link to something that shows that Levi had a very good second half of the season I'd appreciate it.

Nathan Jahnke ‏ @PFF_NateJahnke From Week 1-10, Levi Brown allowed a pressure 1 in every 8.6 pass plays. From Week 11-17, it was 1 in every 27.8 pass plays.

I don't think it's pure coincidence that Levi's game picked up after Skelton took over. Kolb ran himself into a ton of pressures last year.

As for the topic, I feel our secondary will be improved next year. Losing Marshall isn't ideal, although I think Horton's MVP of the defense comments have been taken way too far, but Gay, Sanders and the return of Toler should more than make up for his departure. Replacing Chris Miller is also a likely improvement.

Beyond that, I got nothing so far. The talent on offense looks just as thin as it did at the end of last year. Maybe even worse, considering guys like Heap and Colledge are a year older. Hopefully the return of Ryan Williams and the maturation of Housler will make up for the others' decline.

 

[Longcolts]

Might be a few new readers that don't know yet, give me some street cred for the disclaimer at least!!!

Ouch, now cut out the rock throwing. You're the confused and mixed up Hippie! Not me!

 

[40yearfan]

Not really wanting to speak for CC since he is far better at it than I.

You are basing your entire rant on the fact that Levi Brown is the worst LT in the league and to some point ignoring that he had a very good 2nd half of the season.

Factor in that this was his 2nd season back at LT as a pro. Factor in that several of the early sacks and QB pressures he gave up early in the year were in FACT Kolbs fault.

Consider that several teams had contacted Levi so there was a certain level of interest for him in the NFL.

Maybe Levi isn't as bad as you think he is? Maybe the FO is right and they do have a legit LT in Levi? Maybe Levi was the best option for LT in FA. If you can start to entertain these thoughts then the only things left to have issue with is:

They over spent last year in FA which is absolutely not the SOC's.

They have missed on their assessment on Levi's future which every team does.

So maybe I need a better definition of what you mean by SOC's. When I read that phrase I think of penny pinching, archiac business principles, an inability to gauge and grade talent and a bigger concern for the bottom line than winning.

Since this team has recently been to a SB and had the highest payroll last year and has been spending most of the CAP (except for one year since UOP was completed) then I take exception to using SOC's.

Now if you want to say they still suck at evaluating talent then we could have a healthy debate in which I would think both of us would agree they have at least improved.

It's amazing how no matter how many times this is repeated, we are still getting the same old Cards mantra. We were super active in FA last year, but a lot of people on here have already forgotten that fact or the fact that when they team finally gelled last year, we had a remarkable 7 - 2 record in the final 9 games.

There was no reason to use FA to any extent this year, especially considering the talent available and CAP ramifications. Now is the time to build through the draft and keep this team going in an upward direction.

No way, shape or form is the the "same old Cardinals".

 

[52brandon]

It's amazing how no matter how many times this is repeated, we are still getting the same old Cards mantra. We were super active in FA last year, but a lot of people on here have already forgotten that fact or the fact that when they team finally gelled last year, we had a remarkable 7 - 2 record in the final 9 games.

There was no reason to use FA to any extent this year, especially considering the talent available and CAP ramifications. Now is the time to build through the draft and keep this team going in an upward direction.

No way, shape or form is the the "same old Cardinals".

I'm definitely not gonna say that we're "the same old cardinals". But there is still plenty that needs improving. For Levi to step it up in the 2nd half of a contract season isn't exactly much of a surprise. I hope he stays improved, but I'm not holding my breath. We still do very much need a #2 WR, but instead let, IMO, the best man for the job (Manningham) go to our division rival. Manning would have been nice, and would have improved my opinion of our O play-calling, but as much as I wanted it, I didn't see it happening. The 2 I really wanted to sign were Manningham and Bell, I guess we could still get Bell, but after Philly lost their LT, I doubt we get him either now. Aside from Snyder, have we signed any other offensive players? (that weren't Cardinals already)

 

[Cardiac]

It's amazing how no matter how many times this is repeated, we are still getting the same old Cards mantra. We were super active in FA last year, but a lot of people on here have already forgotten that fact or the fact that when they team finally gelled last year, we had a remarkable 7 - 2 record in the final 9 games.

There was no reason to use FA to any extent this year, especially considering the talent available and CAP ramifications. Now is the time to build through the draft and keep this team going in an upward direction.

No way, shape or form is the the "same old Cardinals".

Fully agree.

At some level I understand how some fans fall back to the SOC's rant. They have about 30 year stretch of horrible results that are easy to point to.

IMWO it's more of a simplistic way to think about the Cards since Michael B has joined the FO. Cards have sucked since the mid seventies and we had 2 sucky years again so ......SOC's.

I'm definitely not gonna say that we're "the same old cardinals". But there is still plenty that needs improving. For Levi to step it up in the 2nd half of a contract season isn't exactly much of a surprise.

There are a pretty long list of players that have stepped up their games since they were in a contract year. I don't believe that is the case with Levi but we will know for sure as this season unfolds.

I hope he stays improved, but I'm not holding my breath. We still do very much need a #2 WR, but instead let, IMO, the best man for the job (Manningham) go to our division rival.

Now here is a guy in a contract year and only has flashes of quality play but you want him? What were his stats for last year and how much did the 49ers pay for him?

Manning would have been nice, and would have improved my opinion of our O play-calling, but as much as I wanted it, I didn't see it happening. The 2 I really wanted to sign were Manningham and Bell, I guess we could still get Bell, but after Philly lost their LT, I doubt we get him either now. Aside from Snyder, have we signed any other offensive players? (that weren't Cardinals already)

Manning would have been nice? Now that's a bit of an understatement. PM would have solved the biggest question mark on the team.

The offensive units production has to improve, the results have been fugly for the past 2 years. I just don't think that Bell and Manningham were going to make much if any difference.

Once we re-signed Levi our interest in Bell seemed to dissapear. IMWO Bell was the back up plan if we couldn't re-sign Levi.

Once we re-signed Doucet our interest in FA WR's seemed to dissapear. We have a lot of young promising talent on the team so the true need at WR was more of a seasoned vet than anything.

Of course the FO wants to improve the talent level on the team. Thing is they are the ones that view hours and hours of film at the end of each year and place grades on everyone from coaches on down. They know what the play call was, what each players responsibility was and how they executed said reponsibility.

So is our problem we have no #2 WR or that our QB play has to improve? I think it's more on the QB they the WR unit.

Thing is that teams that are typically very active in FA year after year also tend to be teams that suck year after year.

 

[52brandon]

Fully agree.

At some level I understand how some fans fall back to the SOC's rant. They have about 30 year stretch of horrible results that are easy to point to.

IMWO it's more of a simplistic way to think about the Cards since Michael B has joined the FO. Cards have sucked since the mid seventies and we had 2 sucky years again so ......SOC's.



Manning would have been nice? Now that's a bit of an understatement. PM would have solved the biggest question mark on the team.

The offensive units production has to improve, the results have been fugly for the past 2 years. I just don't think that Bell and Manningham were going to make much if any difference.

Once we re-signed Levi our interest in Bell seemed to dissapear. IMWO Bell was the back up plan if we couldn't re-sign Levi.

Once we re-signed Doucet our interest in FA WR's seemed to dissapear. We have a lot of young promising talent on the team so the true need at WR was more of a seasoned vet than anything.

Of course the FO wants to improve the talent level on the team. Thing is they are the ones that view hours and hours of film at the end of each year and place grades on everyone from coaches on down. They know what the play call was, what each players responsibility was and how they executed said reponsibility.

So is our problem we have no #2 WR or that our QB play has to improve? I think it's more on the QB they the WR unit.

Thing is that teams that are typically very active in FA year after year also tend to be teams that suck year after year.

well... When we had the best QB play, we had Fitz, Q and Breaston. Clearly a MUCH better WR core than what we have now. Neither Roberts or Doucet were as much of an impact as Breaston, let alone Q. I liked the idea of adding Manningham well before his awesome SB performance. And I think Manning would have solved our 2 biggest O ?s. However, I don't blame the FO for not wanting to take the risk on him that Denver was willing to. As far as QB being the problem and not WRs, you may be right, but good WRs make QBs look better. So we may be stuck with the QBs we have, but we could have at least improved their targets and/or protection. Manningham would have at least taken some pressure off Fitz. Not to mention that a good line keeps your QB from getting hurt, and our line hasn't exactly improved much... it's hard to say where we'll be at the start of the season, but so far I'm a bit unimpressed with the moves we've made

 

[Duckjake]

IMWO it's more of a simplistic way to think about the Cards since Michael B has joined the FO. Cards have sucked since the mid seventies and we had 2 sucky years again so ......SOC's.

On the other hand the Cards have had only two winning seasons this century so while they may not operate the same as they did in the '70s the things that actually count, wins and losses, aren't any better. 45-51 since the stadium opened with as many 5-11 seasons as winning seasons. Unless you compare that to other stretches of Cardinal football, which you guys don't want to do, two playoff appearances in 7 seasons isn't exactly stellar.

But, things aren't as bad as others would say either. We have a DEFENSE! This year I can spell the team nickname this way: CarDinals

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yes, we've made some positive changes this year. Bolstering the offensive line? I defy anyone to prove how we've done that.

If you don't think that Snyder is better than Hadnot... there's not much to say.

(Watch Hadnot's play against SF last season and compare it to Snyder's against us.)

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If I am not worth your time why bother posting any response?

Am I no longer allowed to voice my opinion from yours?

Worth ur time for insults but not to justfy them.

I guess I will have to take it as

"The reason Cardinals have improved is cause you're a jerk"

Good one

Hopefully u wake up 2morrow in a better mood. Peace

Don't be so sensitive. You've been banging on this theme forever-and-a-day without a word out of place, and I can't see much point in debating it with you.

 

[Stout]

If you don't think that Snyder is better than Hadnot... there's not much to say.

(Watch Hadnot's play against SF last season and compare it to Snyder's against us.)

I can grant that Snyder is better than Hadnot at OG. But then, if he's at OG, then we went from Bridges and Keith to Bridges and...? at RT. I love the argument of addition by subtraction, but we need somebody else to be a body there. We had a sucky LT and we still have a sucky LT, so there's that. LG and C remain with Colledge and Sendlein.

So how does 1 small step forward and 1 small step backwards equal an upgraded offensive line?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I can grant that Snyder is better than Hadnot at OG. But then, if he's at OG, then we went from Bridges and Keith to Bridges and...? at RT. I love the argument of addition by subtraction, but we need somebody else to be a body there. We had a sucky LT and we still have a sucky LT, so there's that. LG and C remain with Colledge and Sendlein.

So how does 1 small step forward and 1 small step backwards equal an upgraded offensive line?

I can't get too disturbed by the state of affairs before the draft. My suspicion is that come September our O-line will be one of the following, both of whom (IMO) a sizable improvement on paper over last season.

Brown, Colledge, Sendlein, Decastro, Snyder

or

Brown, Colledge, Sendlein, Snyder, Glenn

 

[Stout]

I can't get too disturbed by the state of affairs before the draft. My suspicion is that come September our O-line will be one of the following, both of whom (IMO) a sizable improvement on paper over last season.

Brown, Colledge, Sendlein, Decastro, Snyder

or

Brown, Colledge, Sendlein, Snyder, Glenn

Glenn will take a lot of time to transition, if he will at all, to RT, IMO. Snyder is just as bad as Keith as a RT, though he's a good RG. DeCastro will be a rookie, even though I'd love to have him.

So, basically, IMO, if we draft DeCastro, we will have improved at RG. If he's gangbusters from day one. And that's it. Anything else we do in the draft in the first round to TRY to improve the offensive line would be terrible reaches, IMO. ONCE AGAIN, we've backed ourselves into a corner so that we'll probably have to draft for need. And we still have Levi starting at LT. We've completely flubbed again. You cannot expect early picks to become immediate starter upgrades, and you cannot draft for need--yet it looks like we'll be counting on the first and doing the latter--again. This is why a lot of us are unhappy. Oh, and we refuse to toe the company line.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Glenn will take a lot of time to transition, if he will at all, to RT, IMO. Snyder is just as bad as Keith as a RT, though he's a good RG. DeCastro will be a rookie, even though I'd love to have him.

So, basically, IMO, if we draft DeCastro, we will have improved at RG. If he's gangbusters from day one. And that's it. Anything else we do in the draft in the first round to TRY to improve the offensive line would be terrible reaches, IMO. ONCE AGAIN, we've backed ourselves into a corner so that we'll probably have to draft for need. And we still have Levi starting at LT. We've completely flubbed again. You cannot expect early picks to become immediate starter upgrades, and you cannot draft for need--yet it looks like we'll be counting on the first and doing the latter--again. This is why a lot of us are unhappy. Oh, and we refuse to toe the company line.

Sorry... this is way too pessimistic for me and from what I gather about the possible players in play.

 

[40yearfan]

Glenn will take a lot of time to transition, if he will at all, to RT, IMO. Snyder is just as bad as Keith as a RT, though he's a good RG. DeCastro will be a rookie, even though I'd love to have him.

So, basically, IMO, if we draft DeCastro, we will have improved at RG. If he's gangbusters from day one. And that's it. Anything else we do in the draft in the first round to TRY to improve the offensive line would be terrible reaches, IMO. ONCE AGAIN, we've backed ourselves into a corner so that we'll probably have to draft for need. And we still have Levi starting at LT. We've completely flubbed again. You cannot expect early picks to become immediate starter upgrades, and you cannot draft for need--yet it looks like we'll be counting on the first and doing the latter--again. This is why a lot of us are unhappy. Oh, and we refuse to toe the company line.

Stout, we don't know what the company line is. All we have is speculation by the board members without anyone knowing what is actually being discussed by the coaching staff. We need to get through the draft and into the first pre-season game to determine who will be playing where and even then, the O line might not be set. At least we have 5 preseason games this year to make adjustments.

 

[Duckjake]

Stout, we don't know what the company line is. All we have is speculation by the board members without anyone knowing what is actually being discussed by the coaching staff. We need to get through the draft and into the first pre-season game to determine who will be playing where and even then, the O line might not be set. At least we have 5 preseason games this year to make adjustments.

Judge us by the team we put on the field in September!

 

[earthsci]

Judge us by the team we put on the field in September!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

A far more reasonable post than the one that generated Rugby's now classic line. At least you take the time illustrate the reasons why you disagree with someone instead of just typing things like "so you know more than the coaches" or "if you're so smart why aren't you a GM/Coach/Scout in the NFL".

You're right. There have been times when frustration got the better of me and I expressed the view that some posters offering advice to all-and-sundry probably had difficulty keeping a cheque book up-to-date; couldn't understand the legalese in an apartment lease; probably couldn't negotiate five bucks off a cheap rug in Moroccan bazaar, and the closest they came to athletics was possibly carrying a spit bucket. Should have been more circumspect, but won't be offering amends to someone who has the bizarre notion that the game is fixed.

 

[Stout]

Sorry... this is way too pessimistic for me and from what I gather about the possible players in play.

I don't see how anyone can look at our OL situation and not be pessimistic. It isn't pretty right now, and we have little reason to think that will change.

Stout, we don't know what the company line is. All we have is speculation by the board members without anyone knowing what is actually being discussed by the coaching staff. We need to get through the draft and into the first pre-season game to determine who will be playing where and even then, the O line might not be set. At least we have 5 preseason games this year to make adjustments.

Problem is, we desperately need at the very least a RT that is a solid pro starter right now. We need that at LT, really, in order to slide Levi over to RT where his poor play will hurt us less, but at the least, we need that RT. Snyder is basically a Keith at RT, so he should be playing RG. What prospects will be available at 13 that you can plug right in at OT and be set from day 1? None.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I don't see how anyone can look at our OL situation and not be pessimistic. It isn't pretty right now, and we have little reason to think that will change.
.

That must be the Royal "we" , because I'm neither pessimistic or optimistic at this point. I await the draft and the season.

 

[Stout]

That must be the Royal "we" , because I'm neither pessimistic or optimistic at this point. I await the draft and the season.

Glad you've acknowledged my royal status, CC

 

[JeffGollin]

Check out Wolf and Darren's comments on new Cardinal Underground podcast.

Not that I totally agree with them, but they do make a cogent case for why we've been doing what we've done (or not done) this offseason.

 

[Cardiac]

On the other hand the Cards have had only two winning seasons this century so while they may not operate the same as they did in the '70s the things that actually count, wins and losses, aren't any better. 45-51 since the stadium opened with as many 5-11 seasons as winning seasons. Unless you compare that to other stretches of Cardinal football, which you guys don't want to do, two playoff appearances in 7 seasons isn't exactly stellar.

But, things aren't as bad as others would say either. We have a DEFENSE! This year I can spell the team nickname this way: CarDinals

Well two division championships, conference title and SB appearance beats the ever loving snot out or anything this team has accomplished in the previous 30 years.

So make your cute 5-11 season comparisons and WL record stat (Which is still a huge upgrade over the previous years in Sun Devil Stadium) but you an I both know this team is better since Michael has come on board.