Heard on KDUS that both Johnson and Pace are not going to participate in drills!

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Ed B
Ken, actually after all the negative press, the team DID change it's mind and decide to pay some of his medical bills (how sweet of them) but by cutting him instead of putting him on IR they avoided paying his salary.

I only point I'm trying to make is that if you trust the Bidwill's "good faith" practices and "we're all one big happy family" mentality some how, some way, you end up with a pat on the back, an "atta boy", and little (or no) compensation for your sacrifice!

If Pace and Johnson do anything for the Cardinals that places them in a potenially injurious situation without a contract they will not be properly compensated.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Anyone who argues other wise, does not know the reality of football.

Actually I think it's more true to say that they don't know the reality of business. Anyone supporting the Cardinals stance here simply needs to think about any other industry as a model to understand why it makes no sense.

Let's take airlines.

There are15 domestic airlines. Let's say 14 of them offer their pilots 3 days off per week guaranteed and 4 weeks of paid vacation. The 15th (let's say it's United) is run by an old man who thinks that the pilots are spoiled crybabies so United offers its pilots 2 weeks of vacation and only one day per week off.

Which airline are pilots <b>not</b> going to want to work for? Which airline is going to end up with only the worst, crappiest pilots......ones who couldn't get a job with any other airline? Which airline is every pilot going to bad-mouth?

To make it even worse, let's say the pilots have no choice which airline they work for......the airlines get to randomly select them when they pass flight school (almost like a "draft" of sorts!). How happy would a pilot be if he got stuck with United?



It just makes no sense to think that the cardinals can operate differently from their entire "industry" and expect their "employees" to accommodate that.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
I only point I'm trying to make is that if you trust the Bidwill's "good faith" practices and "we're all one big happy family" mentality some how, some way, you end up with a pat on the back, an "atta boy", and little (or no) compensation for your sacrifice!

If Pace and Johnson do anything for the Cardinals that places them in a potenially injurious situation without a contract they will not be properly compensated.

We're in agreement. I just wanted to be fair and state that the team did backpedal and pay a little of his healthcare costs.

I brought it up in the first place because I agree that Bidwill's "word" is worthless and to expect that he will take care of an injured rookie who has no contract out of the "goodness of his heart" is absolute hogwash.

I'm glad some of the people on this board aren't my agent. Or co-workers.

"Aww, come on you pansies, who cares if the company won't give us respirators, it's our duty to go strip that asbestos......stop complaining and be a man!"

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Ed B

"Aww, come on you pansies, who cares if the company won't give us respirators, it's our duty to go strip that asbestos......stop complaining and be a man!"

I probably shouldn't laugh at that.....but I can't help myself!

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain


I probably shouldn't laugh at that.....but I can't help myself!

Honest to god! These were probably the same people who argued against the 40 hour workweek laws in the 1930s.

"Those damn union commies! What pansies! Be a man and work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week!"

 

[RedStorm]

Re: Re: Re: Heard on KDUS that both Johnson and Pace are not going to participate in drills!

Originally posted by Russ Smith
IF this is such a big deal to the Cards why don't they sign both guys before the mini camp? Palmer is signed if we can't do the waiver thing why can't we sign them to contracts so they're protected against injury?

Absolutely!!!! I am so freaking mad I do not know what to think. How can anyone believe Graves is a positive change when things have stayed the same.

THE BUSINESS PRACTICES OF THIS TEAM MUST CHANGE.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Heard on KDUS that both Johnson and Pace are not going to participate in drills!

Originally posted by RedStorm
Absolutely!!!! I am so freaking mad I do not know what to think. How can anyone believe Graves is a positive change when things have stayed the same.

THE BUSINESS PRACTICES OF THIS TEAM MUST CHANGE.

Dude, this isn't Graves.

I think your hate for Graves is blinding you. This is Billy boy's policy. Graves wasn't in power last year, and the same thing happened.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Shane H
Granted its not the couple million had he signed a contract but it is a nice chunk of change. Plus we all know how the Bidwells are if they say they will negotiate in good faith you can pretty much bank that thats what they are going to do! They are known for loyalty and keeping there word!

Shane....

Sorry. You are way off on this one.

 

[JeffGollin]

Free-agent receiver Marcus Robinson agreed to a one-year contract with Baltimore...The Cardinals had first crack at Marcus"...But while Sarnoff added he never heard back from Arizona this week, Graves said he did leave multiple messages with Sarnoff and never received a call back.
Lesson - When Graves says: "I'm very confident that we'll be able to get something done" (as he did with Sanders, Jenkins and now Robinson) why should we believe anything but the opposite?

 

[RedStorm]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Heard on KDUS that both Johnson and Pace are not going to participate in drills!

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Dude, this isn't Graves.

I think your hate for Graves is blinding you. This is Billy boy's policy. Graves wasn't in power last year, and the same thing happened.

Graves is Bidwill's spokesman. Graves is only doing what Bidwill wants and only has his job because he will tow the line.

He said he calls the shots. He is the man. If he can not take the heat he needs to get out.

Graves is nothing but a Yes Man. Period.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Free-agent receiver Marcus Robinson agreed to a one-year contract with Baltimore...The Cardinals had first crack at Marcus"...But while Sarnoff added he never heard back from Arizona this week, Graves said he did leave multiple messages with Sarnoff and never received a call back.
Lesson - When Graves says: "I'm very confident that we'll be able to get something done" (as he did with Sanders, Jenkins and now Robinson) why should we believe anything but the opposite?

There is a pattern here. Graves is just blowing smoke up the rear of us Card fans. He is Bidwills Yes man. Just a puppet.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Shane H
It is easy! I could say I would sign the waiver like many players before them like I listed above ala Leonard Davis ala Thomas Jones ala David Boston etc.....

So saying we wouldnt do it if in the same position is asinine Ed! You might not but I sure would and wouldnt scoff at the 350,000 either!

Shane without getting into a pissing match, why does it sound logical to you that Pace and Johnson should sign because "many players before them" did, but it sounds illogical to you for the Cards to change their policy because every other team does it differently?

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by RedStorm
There is a pattern here. Graves is just blowing smoke up the rear of us Card fans. He is Bidwills Yes man. Just a puppet.

THE CARDS DID THIS BEFORE GRAVES WAS EVEN HERE!

USE SOME FREAKING COMMON SENSE!

If you are going to blame him for something, blame him for the stupid trade, letting Boston walk for nothing, not getting the big name free agents in here (which isn't really his fault either).

Don't blame him for Bidwillian error.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Shane without getting into a pissing match, why does it sound logical to you that Pace and Johnson should sign because "many players before them" did, but it sounds illogical to you for the Cards to change their policy because every other team does it differently?

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Very good point.

This is a case of the Cards cutting off their nose to spite their face. I can't believe how cheap Bidwill can be, that is about the only thing that I can think of to explain this joke of an organization and the a$$ backwards things that they can do.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
THE CARDS DID THIS BEFORE GRAVES WAS EVEN HERE!

USE SOME FREAKING COMMON SENSE!

If you are going to blame him for something, blame him for the stupid trade, letting Boston walk for nothing, not getting the big name free agents in here (which isn't really his fault either).

Don't blame him for Bidwillian error.

And he tows the company line. If he had the guts he would tell Bidwill to change. I thought he had authority? Did he not say that things were changing? How we do business is changing?

Yep. It is changing...Just stare at it long enough and it will change.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by RedStorm
And he tows the company line. If he had the guts he would tell Bidwill to change. I thought he had authority? Did he not say that things were changing? How we do business is changing?

Yep. It is changing...Just stare at it long enough and it will change.

How do you know that he hasn't talked to Bidwill about this?

Graves HAS to do what his boss wants him to. I would love to see you try and do things different from what your boss wants.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
Oh and CB you cant say that if we are all in there place we would do the same thing because many of us wouldnt like many of the athletes before them they sign the waiver and practice ala Leonard davis ala Thomas Jones ala David Boston etc........

I refuse to get into a pissing contest about this. So would would risk everything you have worked hard for over basically your entire life for $350,000 and I am saying all that I worked hard for over my life is worth more to me and my family...this is assuming we are both football players. No problem.

I will let you take the chance and God forbid something bad happens and you can roll the dice the Cards would negotiate in good faith. Me? I will sit and watch and learn and as best as I can take bad luck out of the picture and sign for my millions. Not me being greedy. Just the way this world works.

I can olny assume by your stance here that you feel the cards shouldn't do like the rest of the league and offer two tier deals and voidables and excelerators...since you see no reason they should join what the rest of the league is doing with injury waivers?

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
How do you know that he hasn't talked to Bidwill about this?

Graves HAS to do what his boss wants him to. I would love to see you try and do things different from what your boss wants.

Who said changes are happening? Who said that we are going to do business differently? Who said that? Me or Graves??

 

[mizzoucardfan]

This whole post is BS. If a player really wants to play ansd make a good impression on his new coach he would take out his own Lloyds of London insurance policy. In a very short time they are going to be multi-millionaires, the few grand out of their pocket ( or their agents) will be a drop in the bucket in comparison. What this whole argument boils down to is if you hate the Bidwills or not. If you do, you think that the team is being unfair. I f you don't then you think that the team is trying to be financially resposible. We hashed and re-hashed this whole scenario last year and that's what it really boils down to.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by mizzoucardfan
This whole post is BS. If a player really wants to play ansd make a good impression on his new coach he would take out his own Lloyds of London insurance policy. In a very short time they are going to be multi-millionaires, the few grand out of their pocket ( or their agents) will be a drop in the bucket in comparison. What this whole argument boils down to is if you hate the Bidwills or not. If you do, you think that the team is being unfair. I f you don't then you think that the team is trying to be financially resposible. We hashed and re-hashed this whole scenario last year and that's what it really boils down to.

Bidwill sets the policy not the players. Change starts at the top.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by mizzoucardfan
This whole post is BS. If a player really wants to play ansd make a good impression on his new coach he would take out his own Lloyds of London insurance policy. In a very short time they are going to be multi-millionaires, the few grand out of their pocket ( or their agents) will be a drop in the bucket in comparison. What this whole argument boils down to is if you hate the Bidwills or not. If you do, you think that the team is being unfair. I f you don't then you think that the team is trying to be financially resposible. We hashed and re-hashed this whole scenario last year and that's what it really boils down to.

So because I say the players are right...I hate Bidwill? But wait a minute, I also state the Cards are right...so that means I love Bidwill? Sorry mizzou but that is just ridiculous.

While your proposal they take out insurance makes some sense, you are still asking them to assume all the risk and for the Cards to assume none. Until the Cards grudgingly do what other teams do, this is going to be a yearly thing. The first rounders aren't normally playing for a roster spot like a 6th rounder is so them making a good impression is moot. They are virtually guiaranteed a roster spot...especially these days where the cap comes into play and first rounders especially are expected to produce right away.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by AZCB34
So because I say the players are right...I hate Bidwill? But wait a minute, I also state the Cards are right...so that means I love Bidwill? Sorry mizzou but that is just ridiculous.

While your proposal they take out insurance makes some sense, you are still asking them to assume all the risk and for the Cards to assume none. Until the Cards grudgingly do what other teams do, this is going to be a yearly thing. The first rounders aren't normally playing for a roster spot like a 6th rounder is so them making a good impression is moot. They are virtually guiaranteed a roster spot...especially these days where the cap comes into play and first rounders especially are expected to produce right away.

I guess we should trade all our 1st and 2nd rd picks from now on for proven vets or getting multiple 3-7 rd picks. Maybe this is the future?

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by RedStorm
I guess we should trade all our 1st and 2nd rd picks from now on for proven vets or getting multiple 3-7 rd picks. Maybe this is the future?

That may very well be the future. Listen, I actually admire Bidwills stance on this. He is old school and is firm in his belief...but his beliefs on how things should be run is a detriment to the organization. Period end of story.

It really is a business issue. Lets say you have 32 companies who all produce a product by hand. Over time, 30 of the 32 companies introduce technologies and upgrades and robotics. They are producing more of the product cheaper and faster. Those last 2 companies have a choice. Catch up technologically or be left behind fighting over the table scraps.

The football world has passed by the Bidwills...in fact they are just a tiny speck in the rearview mirror of the rest of the league. They need to decide whether they want to catch up or continue merrily along ...always playing for the table scraps.

As a side issue, what happens when this new stadium opens? All this new revenue the Bidwills will get. Will that change their stances on these issues (which they are so strongly against) once they get the extra money in their hands?

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by AZCB34
That may very well be the future. Listen, I actually admire Bidwills stance on this. He is old school and is firm in his belief...but his beliefs on how things should be run is a detriment to the organization. Period end of story.

It really is a business issue. Lets say you have 32 companies who all produce a product by hand. Over time, 30 of the 32 companies introduce technologies and upgrades and robotics. They are producing more of the product cheaper and faster. Those last 2 companies have a choice. Catch up technologically or be left behind fighting over the table scraps.

The football world has passed by the Bidwills...in fact they are just a tiny speck in the rearview mirror of the rest of the league. They need to decide whether they want to catch up or continue merrily along ...always playing for the table scraps.

As a side issue, what happens when this new stadium opens? All this new revenue the Bidwills will get. Will that change their stances on these issues (which they are so strongly against) once they get the extra money in their hands?

Nope. I doubt it. Unless his livelyhood is in jeopardy.

 

[mizzoucardfan]

I don't disagree with some of your logic Azcb. However, as a player who would want to be successful in the NFL, I personally would take every opportunity that I had to learn my new job, and that means participating in every mini camp. Maybe I just expect the players that are going to be Cardinals to be as interested in their success as I am.