Hello everyone....plus my biased take on Bosa vs Allen

[football karma]

Assuming no trades:

If Cards take Bosa
the 49ers take Allen

Assuming trades:

Cards trade down so someone takes Haskins at #1
49ers could take Allen still, but likely take Bosa
Jets or Raiders could take Allen -- I don't think he gets by both



there you go: my airtight draft prediction. Money back if you are not satisfied.

 

[TheCardFan]

Again Bud Dupree didn't have the production Allen does.

This isn't a raw project he's been dominate in the SEC

Disagree. Dupree didn't have that huge 17 sack year like Allen but numbers are pretty close. Bud was much better in run support and could get around the edge as well as Allen. Bud seemed more stocky.

Playing in a 3-4 in Pitt, Dupree has had between 4-6 sacks each year.

The gamble would be...is Josh Allen just starting to "get it" or was 2018 a fluke (based on previous production).

Josh Allen - 220 tackles, 42 TFL, 31.5 sacks

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Bud Dupree - 247 tackles, 39.5 TFL, 25.5 sacks

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[Jetstream Green]

Josh Allen accepted an invitation to play in the Senior Bowl. The practices are even more important to the pro scouts than the game. I really hope he does show up. It can certainly impact his draft ranking.

I only hope he shows up if his practices translate to the pros and confirm his actual play. It comes down to his game tape and I do not like Keim's Al Davis approach of late going after measurables and not football players... which also means any WR we draft better be able to run routes and freaking catch

 

[BurqueCardFan]

Disagree. Dupree didn't have that huge 17 sack year like Allen but numbers are pretty close. Bud was much better in run support and could get around the edge as well as Allen. Bud seemed more stocky.

Playing in a 3-4 in Pitt, Dupree has had between 4-6 sacks each year.

The gamble would be...is Josh Allen just starting to "get it" or was 2018 a fluke (based on previous production).

Josh Allen - 220 tackles, 42 TFL, 31.5 sacks

You must be registered for see images attach

Bud Dupree - 247 tackles, 39.5 TFL, 25.5 sacks

You must be registered for see images attach

I hadn't even looked up the stats but they look pretty similar to me. Again, the question is not if he is a good player, it's, is he worth a top pick? Bud Dupree looks like the same player and I think everyone can agree, he would not have been worth the #1 pick or even a top ten pick based on his production in Pitt.

 

[BigRedRage]

First time posting after probably 7 years of reading this board for Cardinal news. With the team in Arizona now you guys have been my go to for all things Cards. I have been a lifelong Cards fan back to the Neil Lomax, Roy Green and Stump Mitchell days.

Now for my biased take on Bosa vs Allen. I'm an even bigger UK football fan than the Cards so I know a little bit about the freak that Josh Allen is. I agree that Bosa is a special talent but I think a few of you don't know enough about Josh Allen. First a few questions that I have about Bosa. Did he quit the team after his injury or was his injury season ending? I have heard both ways and wasn't sure. Regardless when is the last time a guy was taken #1 overall after only playing in 3 games the previous season? My honest take is that the PR machine has created this monster because his last name is Bosa who played at Ohio St for Urban Meyer. Serious question: If he was the same player, with the same stats, coming off of the same season but his name was Nick Jones from Ohio University..... do you think he would be getting pimped as the #1 pick? I don't think so. He would be going back to school to prove he was healthy and put up numbers.

Meanwhile Josh Allen is a 6'6 260 lb freak who is still learning. The guy was a WR until his SR year of high school. He just absolutely dominated the SEC, 17 sacks this year. Not the Sun Belt or CUSA he dominated the SEC. Take the time to watch UK vs Florida, S. Carolina, Miss St., Louisville and Penn St the guy is unblockable. You will see teams clothes lining him, holding him, chipping him, double teaming him and still he gets to the quarterback. He is very good against the run and drops into coverage numerous times each game. Last I saw Mel Kiper has him as the #2 prospect in the draft for now. He basically swept all the defensive player of the year awards and I guarantee he kills the combine. Hard worker, no injury history and no off the field questions at all. Most of all in this day and age when tons of college kids are skipping bowl games Josh Allen played. He was already #4-6 pick in nearly every mock so he had a ton to lose. In spite of Penn St setting their whole game plan around blocking Allen he ended the game with 3 sacks and a blocked FG. Lol that's right dude was out there on ST and blocked a FG. I have seen people say he looks like he weighs 220 lb's no way the dude is huge.

If the Cards were gonna be a 4-3 team I would say, if healthy, Bosa would be the pick with his hand in the dirt. As a 3-4 team the OLB you take has gotta be Josh Allen. Again I am clearly biased but look into the man and just wait until the combine and Pro Days. As far as trading down to #4 with Oakland you are getting Josh Allen at 4. No way he gets past both SF and NYJ who need pass rushers so it's #1 or not at all. Sorry for such a long first post but this topic has brought me out from lurking for a long time.

I buy it.

 

[BW52]

Probably a top 10 guy maybe but #1 pick...…..no effin way...

 

[Ohcrap75]

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I’m not seeing what you are describing. I see multiple plays of him getting blocked by a TE. He falls on a couple loose balls, but unless this is porn, I don’t think it’s a translatable trait.

He has ability and upside, but doesn’t have the consistency or advanced technique to take over Bosa or QWill. This is also after 4 seasons of experience.

 

[Veer]

Allen has a higher ceiling than Bosa from an athletic and size standpoint. But it's not even safe to say that Allen will ever be as good as Bosa is right now.

When it comes to crucial decisions like the 1st overall selection, you can't get cute and leave a better, safer prospect on the board because of scheme fit.

Btw Bosa's ceiling is underestimated anyway and it's safe to say that being able to get to the QB fits any scheme.

 

[TheCardFan]

Side note - that is a damn good TE. Isaac Nauta (I think Dvontel brought him up).

Solid blocker and very nice in the passing game (underutilized at GA). Hopefully, we snag him in the later rounds.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Georgia didn’t even waste a lineman on him most of the second half. He was getting manhandled by a single TE. This isn’t top five material.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Side note - that is a damn good TE. Isaac Nauta (I think Dvontel brought him up).

Solid blocker and very nice in the passing game (underutilized at GA). Hopefully, we snag him in the later rounds.

Yes, Nauta was a top ten player out of high school. Great blocker and very good speed. I think he will rise during draft process

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'll admit, I don't know much about Allen but this reminds me of the Bud Dupree talk from several years back.

Man I don’t think so. Allen has been on the radar for quite a while. He’s not something new.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Quite the influx of new posters from KY, yeah?

Welcome sir. How about 1/3 pound cheeseburger from Braums, mustard, no mayo, french fries, and a coke?

 

[Russ Smith]

Welcome to the board.

To me it's really somewhat a conundrum. What makes Bosa so good is he's so polished and advanced because his dad and his brother are/were NFL DL's. He has the mechanics of an NFL veteran, the hands, the footwork, the balance etc. That also of course means his ceiling is lower because he's so polished. Allen is as you say an athletic freak, but not nearly as polished. So high upside but will he get there. Bosa has some injury concerns. I also mentioned before with Bosa if he were anybody else I'd be saying steroids, but that family with that experience I really don't think he is doing that. I've read stories about all the yoga and stretching he does, Joey started it and Nick joined in. He's in great shape because he trains like a 10 year vet, he's buffed, he's flexible, he's technically sound etc.

Oliver is sort of in between more polished than Allen but not quite as athletic. Allen is more like Chandler Jones, Oliver gets compared to Aaron Donald, and then you have a monster like Quinnen Williams there too. It's why you almost hope the Cards are able to move down for someone who wants a QB, if you pick in the top 5 and the first team picks a QB, you're effectively guaranteed of being able to pick one of Bosa, Allen, Oliver and Williams, or a CB like Greedy Williams etc.

I think a large part of it is do the Cards go back to the 3-4 and if so which is the best fit.

 

[TigToad]

Well, we are at the time of year where I start to pay attention to college football! Your write up sounds impressive, and both the tangibles and intangibles are there. I am also concerned about Bosa's injury.

That said, I keep thinking there is a potential haul of picks if we trade out of #1, and that is what I am hoping for. We have some urgent needs if we are going to be competitive quickly. That said, if we can trade back, even a few slots, and get a guy like Allen while picking up some picks for potential OL, WR or CBs that would be stellar.

I'll take a 21 year old single malt scotch and a greasy cheeseburger please.

 

[wkycardsfan]

Thanks for all of the responses guys and looks like I have many orders to pick up lol. I think I didn't express my thoughts on Bosa correctly. I think he is a special talent, not just PR, its that I think his last name and PR still has him #1 overall today. Any other player coming off of a season ending injury would have to prove his health to regain that spot. That's what I mean about the PR. If he shows up healthy at the combine and puts up the numbers then take him #1 but no one has seen him play since Sept. so it's a guessing game until he proves he is healthy.

Bud Dupree was never the player that Josh Allen is. He was a nice player in college but I didn't think he should have went in the 1st round at all. As far as the Georgia game you got me there, it was an all systems failure that day. Georgia put on a clinic and just kicked Kentucky's butt. It wasn't just Allen there will be 6-7 players drafted off of UK's defense but on that day Georgia made them look like a high school team. I will root for whomever we take at #1 or in a trade down, it would just be doubly sweet for me if it were Allen. Oh and maybe pick up a couple more Cats later in the draft also.

 

[Veer]

Bosa is just too good to pass up if we stay at #1. Quinnen is great too, probably a better natural scheme fit for us as well. But Quinnen can't overcome an elite edge rushing prospect like Bosa. In comparable drafts with below average QB talent and pass rushers who were freaks of nature like Clowney and Garrett there was a little bit of discussion who should go at #1. Not this time around. All major football sources, including reputable scouts and sources, have Bosa on top of the board. You can't plan for injuries. If there are no long lasting issues found by our medical staff, we should take the best player in the draft at a premium position. While trading down is always an option, I don't foresee an offer that will blow us away. In order for this to happen, we really must find red flags of some sorts regarding Bosa. I reckon Billy Davis will tell us whether Bosa can handle 3-4 OLB duties...

 

[JeffGollin]

Well, we are at the time of year where I start to pay attention to college football! Your write up sounds impressive, and both the tangibles and intangibles are there. I am also concerned about Bosa's injury.

That said, I keep thinking there is a potential haul of picks if we trade out of #1, and that is what I am hoping for. We have some urgent needs if we are going to be competitive quickly. That said, if we can trade back, even a few slots, and get a guy like Allen while picking up some picks for potential OL, WR or CBs that would be stellar.

I'll take a 21 year old single malt scotch and a greasy cheeseburger please.

Anyone got some research on the success of teams keeping a high pick vs. teams who trade down for more picks?

No hard evidence but My gut keeps warning that trading down is usually a sucker's play.

 

[wkycardsfan]

I reckon Billy Davis will tell us whether Bosa can handle 3-4 OLB duties...

100% accurate

 

[TigToad]

I really don't. Look at the last few years in the top couple picks.

It feels like it went better for the team moving down. The most obvious example was the fleecing the Rams gave Washington for RGIII. As all things, it would depend on how high we are on our board and how far down you have to move and how much we are being offered.

Anyone got some research on the success of teams keeping a high pick vs. teams who trade down for more picks?

No hard evidence but My gut keeps warning that trading down is usually a sucker's play.

 

[DVontel]

I really don't. Look at the last few years in the top couple picks.

It feels like it went better for the team moving down. The most obvious example was the fleecing the Rams gave Washington for RGIII. As all things, it would depend on how high we are on our board and how far down you have to move and how much we are being offered.

The only player that’s still on the Rams’ roster that was a original Redskins’ pick is Michael Brockers. Everyone else is either a FA or on another team. They didn’t exactly win with those players. Both teams lost that trade.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

The only player that’s still on the Rams’ roster that was a original Redskins’ pick is Michael Brockers. Everyone else is either a FA or on another team. They didn’t exactly win with those players. Both teams lost that trade.

The Luck vs RGIII arguments were entertaining at least...

 

[HeHasRosen]

The only player that’s still on the Rams’ roster that was a original Redskins’ pick is Michael Brockers. Everyone else is either a FA or on another team. They didn’t exactly win with those players. Both teams lost that trade.

I think you could look at most of those situations and its always a crapshoot. I'll take more picks and hope at least one hits.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

First time posting after probably 7 years of reading this board for Cardinal news. With the team in Arizona now you guys have been my go to for all things Cards. I have been a lifelong Cards fan back to the Neil Lomax, Roy Green and Stump Mitchell days.
I just recently started posting here also. I'm just like you, cardinals fan all my life, starting watching them in 1976. I live in Louisville but grew up in western ky, near Owensboro in McLean county. Where are you from? I'm also a huge Kentucky fan & I posted about us drafting josh Allen last week. I agree with everything you said bro, he is a beast.
Now for my biased take on Bosa vs Allen. I'm an even bigger UK football fan than the Cards so I know a little bit about the freak that Josh Allen is. I agree that Bosa is a special talent but I think a few of you don't know enough about Josh Allen. First a few questions that I have about Bosa. Did he quit the team after his injury or was his injury season ending? I have heard both ways and wasn't sure. Regardless when is the last time a guy was taken #1 overall after only playing in 3 games the previous season? My honest take is that the PR machine has created this monster because his last name is Bosa who played at Ohio St for Urban Meyer. Serious question: If he was the same player, with the same stats, coming off of the same season but his name was Nick Jones from Ohio University..... do you think he would be getting pimped as the #1 pick? I don't think so. He would be going back to school to prove he was healthy and put up numbers.

Meanwhile Josh Allen is a 6'6 260 lb freak who is still learning. The guy was a WR until his SR year of high school. He just absolutely dominated the SEC, 17 sacks this year. Not the Sun Belt or CUSA he dominated the SEC. Take the time to watch UK vs Florida, S. Carolina, Miss St., Louisville and Penn St the guy is unblockable. You will see teams clothes lining him, holding him, chipping him, double teaming him and still he gets to the quarterback. He is very good against the run and drops into coverage numerous times each game. Last I saw Mel Kiper has him as the #2 prospect in the draft for now. He basically swept all the defensive player of the year awards and I guarantee he kills the combine. Hard worker, no injury history and no off the field questions at all. Most of all in this day and age when tons of college kids are skipping bowl games Josh Allen played. He was already #4-6 pick in nearly every mock so he had a ton to lose. In spite of Penn St setting their whole game plan around blocking Allen he ended the game with 3 sacks and a blocked FG. Lol that's right dude was out there on ST and blocked a FG. I have seen people say he looks like he weighs 220 lb's no way the dude is huge.

If the Cards were gonna be a 4-3 team I would say, if healthy, Bosa would be the pick with his hand in the dirt. As a 3-4 team the OLB you take has gotta be Josh Allen. Again I am clearly biased but look into the man and just wait until the combine and Pro Days. As far as trading down to #4 with Oakland you are getting Josh Allen at 4. No way he gets past both SF and NYJ who need pass rushers so it's #1 or not at all. Sorry for such a long first post but this topic has brought me out from lurking for a long time.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

What's up with Kentucky Cardinal fans all of a sudden? Welcome to the board! I will take a glass of your finest Cabernet and a bone in ribeye.
He's very good at stopping the run, I watched him in the backfield making tackles all season long. Check out his game videos on you tube & it will show.
Appreciate your take on Allen vs Bosa.

The way you describe him, it sounds like Khalil Mack but he is not KM. He is not Von Miller either.

Positives - great motor, athletic, and versatile. He gets sacks with speed around the edge. NFL OT's will neutralize some of that.
Negatives - Not effective in defending the run on edge. Doesn't have great hands or counter moves on rush. Doesn't bend like Von Miller.

He does seem like a better fit for a 3-4 than Bosa but I think Bosa is more talented right now.